Lipo Legalization
#211
Tech Master
iTrader: (23)
What will go 6v exactly? Just TC's? While the rest of the hobby from boats, offroad, even R/C tanks are all 6 cells. Now hobby shops will need to stock 5 cell packs just for their "specialty" customers who race TC. The shops around me sell a variety of R/C items.....planes, boats, heli's. I really dont see them stocking up on 5 cell packs since the majority around here is nitro anyway. Just asking for a nail in the coffin if you ask me. I can see more problems going 6v then just staying with 6 cell packs.
Agreed, we need to get on Orion/Peaks butt to get some rules written first then after everythings ironed out packs can be submitted. If Novak can get it done a large company like orion, or Kokam can do it.
Agreed, we need to get on Orion/Peaks butt to get some rules written first then after everythings ironed out packs can be submitted. If Novak can get it done a large company like orion, or Kokam can do it.
#212
cus there is no need for lower voltage pack`s...
Last edited by Wild Cherry; 05-18-2007 at 08:42 AM.
#213
Tech Master
iTrader: (23)
Its already been disscussed they wont work in 1/12th.....kinda beating a dead horse. So you'd dissallow then just for that reason? Come on. No one here has suggested that lipo replace NiMh, just give use more power options. I dont see any die hard 1/12 racers who solely race 1/12th saying ban them.
#214
Tech Elite
iTrader: (75)
It's not ROAR's responsibility to make sure that the cars on the market will fit or adapt to what they approve. It's ROAR's responsibility to make sure that they have the best interests of the racers and the future of racing in mind.
So what you're saying is, because SOME cars can't be modified easily or adapted to fit some of these packs, then NONE of the battery technology should be considered for legalization? Gotcha.
How soon we forget that the dimensions of NiCd and NiMh cells have grown a LOT in the last 20 years, in weight, width and length, and each time ROAR has adapted and changed their rules and limits to accommodate the new cells. A car designed in 1992 for a 2000mah cell will not handle a new 4200mah cell without modifications, just as some cars currently won't handle many LiPo packs. That is changing, though, and soon a LOT more cars will be very friendly to various battery types.
Hell, Custom Works still sells dirt oval kits with battery trays that won't hold anything larger than a 3300mah cell, let alone a LiPo pack. But, cars like the TC5, JRXS-R and Schumacher Mi3 are all designed with LiPo packs in mind, and many more will follow.
Again, those who want to run LiPo packs will buy cars that are being designed with these packs in mind, and those who want to run NiMh packs won't have to worry about it. Just because YOUR car doesn't fit the packs is not a good reason to not allow them.
And PLEASE... MUTE is a button on your TV remote so you can hear your wife complaining that you didnt take out the garbage. MOOT is the word describing a pointless debate—which this one might very well be.
So what you're saying is, because SOME cars can't be modified easily or adapted to fit some of these packs, then NONE of the battery technology should be considered for legalization? Gotcha.
How soon we forget that the dimensions of NiCd and NiMh cells have grown a LOT in the last 20 years, in weight, width and length, and each time ROAR has adapted and changed their rules and limits to accommodate the new cells. A car designed in 1992 for a 2000mah cell will not handle a new 4200mah cell without modifications, just as some cars currently won't handle many LiPo packs. That is changing, though, and soon a LOT more cars will be very friendly to various battery types.
Hell, Custom Works still sells dirt oval kits with battery trays that won't hold anything larger than a 3300mah cell, let alone a LiPo pack. But, cars like the TC5, JRXS-R and Schumacher Mi3 are all designed with LiPo packs in mind, and many more will follow.
Again, those who want to run LiPo packs will buy cars that are being designed with these packs in mind, and those who want to run NiMh packs won't have to worry about it. Just because YOUR car doesn't fit the packs is not a good reason to not allow them.
And PLEASE... MUTE is a button on your TV remote so you can hear your wife complaining that you didnt take out the garbage. MOOT is the word describing a pointless debate—which this one might very well be.
#215
Originally Posted by hobbipro
What will go 6v exactly? Just TC's? While the rest of the hobby from boats, offroad, even R/C tanks are all 6 cells. Now hobby shops will need to stock 5 cell packs just for their "specialty" customers who race TC. The shops around me sell a variety of R/C items.....planes, boats, heli's. I really dont see them stocking up on 5 cell packs since the majority around here is nitro anyway. Just asking for a nail in the coffin if you ask me. I can see more problems going 6v then just staying with 6 cell packs.
Agreed, we need to get on Orion/Peaks butt to get some rules written first then after everythings ironed out packs can be submitted. If Novak can get it done a large company like orion, or Kokam can do it.
Agreed, we need to get on Orion/Peaks butt to get some rules written first then after everythings ironed out packs can be submitted. If Novak can get it done a large company like orion, or Kokam can do it.
BTW, I own a hobby shop and would have no problem stocking 5 cell packs.
Just because rules for racing are changed does not mean that 6 cells goes away forever... The market is still huge for 6 cells even if a racing organization goes to 5. You have to remember that our racing community only accomodates about 4-7 percent of the hobby.
Last edited by Orange; 05-18-2007 at 08:50 AM.
#216
What offroad cars dont they fit in??
#217
XX4 (Still used)
#219
I am not against LiPo, I just wish it was a little more flexible to accomodate the ever changing face of racing. Thats all.
#220
Tech Elite
iTrader: (75)
Good points, but a capacity limit has little bearing on LiPo packs unless the race lengths are drastically increased, because at this point, they will ALL drastically outlast a NiMh pack. An 8000mah pack just allows less charging during a race day.
And cars like the Slim4 and BJ4we (they fit in the non World's car still available for purchase), are such a very small percentage of a very small faction of racing, it's a moot market to cater to in the bigger picture of all racing. Between 1/12th scale carpet and obscure 4wd buggies that run saddle packs (of which I own one mentioned), you are proposing disallowing ALL potential LiPo packs because of a few thousand cars in the country.
Not exactly reasonable, in my opinion.
And cars like the Slim4 and BJ4we (they fit in the non World's car still available for purchase), are such a very small percentage of a very small faction of racing, it's a moot market to cater to in the bigger picture of all racing. Between 1/12th scale carpet and obscure 4wd buggies that run saddle packs (of which I own one mentioned), you are proposing disallowing ALL potential LiPo packs because of a few thousand cars in the country.
Not exactly reasonable, in my opinion.
#221
Tech Lord
iTrader: (32)
The onus will be on the niche cars that don't fit LiPo to change to accommodate them, not the other way around.
The nice thing is, if LiPo is approved for mixed racing, they'll have a choice, and time to change. Nobody is saying kill NiMH, they're just saying give people the choice of using LiPo. Consumers will decide if they prefer it, and if they do, chassis makers will make changes accordingly to make sure they're still viable in their market.
That's it. Nobody is trying to pry NiMH away from you. Please, continue to use it, love it and enjoy it. But don't deny people the choice of using something different simply because it's not something you're interested in. We don't all think alike, and we're not all content to use the same old thing when there's other, more convenient options available.
The nice thing is, if LiPo is approved for mixed racing, they'll have a choice, and time to change. Nobody is saying kill NiMH, they're just saying give people the choice of using LiPo. Consumers will decide if they prefer it, and if they do, chassis makers will make changes accordingly to make sure they're still viable in their market.
That's it. Nobody is trying to pry NiMH away from you. Please, continue to use it, love it and enjoy it. But don't deny people the choice of using something different simply because it's not something you're interested in. We don't all think alike, and we're not all content to use the same old thing when there's other, more convenient options available.
#222
I'm not saying to disallow all of them, I'm saying legalize what is fair for all the classes. There just isn't one currently. To the fault of the lipo manufacturers, not ROAR or anybody that uses Nimh.
No, the niche cars followed the rules, LIPO has to adapt.
No, the niche cars followed the rules, LIPO has to adapt.
#223
Capacity is not the problem, voltage is.
ROAR does not limit capacity, they simply approve what is submitted. As long as it meets the required size specifications, all is well.
Syndr0me: I don't think that anyone within ROAR doesn't want it, I think that they need better education of it so that they no how and what to implement into rules. This is where the manufacturers need to step up to the plate and pitch in. It has nothing to do with basically any of what is being said here.
ROAR does not limit capacity, they simply approve what is submitted. As long as it meets the required size specifications, all is well.
Syndr0me: I don't think that anyone within ROAR doesn't want it, I think that they need better education of it so that they no how and what to implement into rules. This is where the manufacturers need to step up to the plate and pitch in. It has nothing to do with basically any of what is being said here.
#224
Originally Posted by syndr0me
Even if LiPo doesn't get legalized for sanctioned racing soon, allowing people to use it in clubs so they don't burn through their expensive race packs is a great first step. I understand it'll take a while for very competitive racing, but allowing it to do the heavy lifting in the clubs isn't a terrible idea.
This is currently happening all over the country so the question really is: Will ROAR approve them in 2009 or 2010? I'm thinking 2008 is a lost cause. I think ROAR should keep BL and Lipo out of stock and allow BL and Lipo in mod. Stock can become the vintage class and mod can be at the cutting edge of all the new technology, which is how it should be. Local clubs can make up their own rules and if BL 13.5/Lipo becomes really popular, that might force ROAR to offer vintage stock and stock classes.
#225
How is a company like peak or orion going to iron out rules if they have no basis to go by. If you want to promote a class then start running it. Most local tracks will let you run it if there is enough for a class. If you want to run lipo then find 4 or so other guys to run it with you and get a local class started. Persnaly I am not a big fan of the orion/peak packs. The best way to make the class grow is to highlight the extreme advantages of the product, the orion/peak packs don't high light this. You can run 3 heats and a 20 minute main w/ an 8k mah pack. I am sure that if people could show up and run a novak gtb 3.5 for 3 five minute heats and then run a 20 minute main w/out any battery and motor maintanance at all then the class would grow in a hurry. Now, this is just in the winter. Now, when the summer rolls around everyone still has a shiny bl system, a shiny 8k mah lipo pack and an itch to race some more. So, are more people more likely going to drop 1.2k+ on a new buggy setup or go and drop $400 on a new 1/10th scale setup?