1LikesMugen MTX-4R
02-28-2008, 06:48 AM
#1246
Tech Apprentice
02-29-2008, 03:13 AM
#1247
Tech Adept
Well, the part numbers are still in plain english 
and the rest should be at least somewhat understandable with the help of Babelfish or some other online translator. I've also seen quite many austrians speaking english, so there's a chance you could just drop them an email and they might answer, I dunno.
and the rest should be at least somewhat understandable with the help of Babelfish or some other online translator. I've also seen quite many austrians speaking english, so there's a chance you could just drop them an email and they might answer, I dunno.
Last edited by olev; 03-02-2008 at 12:42 AM.
03-01-2008, 02:52 PM
#1248
ok I have a problem, Iwas running my mtx4r on my starter box for the first time. Car has never seen the track, was just tuning the engine since I havent started the engine in a while and we have a open practice tommorrow. The problem is it stripped 2nd gear after about 3 minutes of running havent even touched the ground yet and it stripped. The engine didnt come loose, and the gear mesh is set correctly, set it just like I did my rrr. I know this has been disqused on here before but dont feel like looking back all these pages. So Im out of luck since my lhs is closed tommorrow, but 301 raceway is open. Maybe I might just put everything back in my rrr. Another question is my engine doesnt seem to be running the best. Runs good and idles good but when I pull full throttle and then let off it still revs high for about 4 seconds or so and returns back to idle. Any suggestions, if it matters its a os .12tz eb mods.
03-02-2008, 01:06 AM
#1249
Tech Adept
Wow, stripping the gear even before putting the car on the ground must suck really bad, I feel sorry for you. I suppose revving the engine on the box can still create big enough loads on the gears at the shift moment.
What I do to avoid this is always set the mesh of the 2nd gear with the 1st spur off. Just take the gearbox e-clip off, remove the 1st spur with the oneway, set the mesh of 2nd gear, tighten the engine, recheck, put the 1st spur on and check again. If you set the mesh with the 1st gear on, you might actually have the engine at an angle, so it looks fine for the 1st, but is too loose for the 2nd (could be too tight as well, but this you can feel & hear when you rotate the gears).
Other thing to make sure is that the 2nd speed shoes are just barely missing the bell. They can't be touching the bell, but also the gap shouldn't be excessive. The bigger the distance between the shoes and the bell, the harder the hit at the shift point, just like the engine clutch. Smaller gap = softer shift = less strain on the gears. I've read that some guys have removed the balls that go under the gap set screws of the 2-speed shoes and use longer screws instead, but mine still has the balls and has given me no problems. You need to check and adjust the gap often, as the shoes wear.
In 2 seasons of running the MTX-4, I've only stripped one spur and that was before I started paying attention to those issues
Later on you when you've actually ran the car you should also keep an eye on the pinions and change them when they wear. Steel pinions will last longer, but you will theoretically lose a bit of acceleration, as they are heavier.
About your engine - if it does that, it's because the top end is too lean and/or bottom too rich. If it idles normally for at least 10 seconds after doing this 4 second trick and dropping the revs, the top end is too lean. If it continues to load up and dies, the bottom is too rich (and possibly you've set the idle revs too high to compensate).
What I do to avoid this is always set the mesh of the 2nd gear with the 1st spur off. Just take the gearbox e-clip off, remove the 1st spur with the oneway, set the mesh of 2nd gear, tighten the engine, recheck, put the 1st spur on and check again. If you set the mesh with the 1st gear on, you might actually have the engine at an angle, so it looks fine for the 1st, but is too loose for the 2nd (could be too tight as well, but this you can feel & hear when you rotate the gears).
Other thing to make sure is that the 2nd speed shoes are just barely missing the bell. They can't be touching the bell, but also the gap shouldn't be excessive. The bigger the distance between the shoes and the bell, the harder the hit at the shift point, just like the engine clutch. Smaller gap = softer shift = less strain on the gears. I've read that some guys have removed the balls that go under the gap set screws of the 2-speed shoes and use longer screws instead, but mine still has the balls and has given me no problems. You need to check and adjust the gap often, as the shoes wear.
In 2 seasons of running the MTX-4, I've only stripped one spur and that was before I started paying attention to those issues
Later on you when you've actually ran the car you should also keep an eye on the pinions and change them when they wear. Steel pinions will last longer, but you will theoretically lose a bit of acceleration, as they are heavier.
About your engine - if it does that, it's because the top end is too lean and/or bottom too rich. If it idles normally for at least 10 seconds after doing this 4 second trick and dropping the revs, the top end is too lean. If it continues to load up and dies, the bottom is too rich (and possibly you've set the idle revs too high to compensate).
03-02-2008, 12:20 PM
#1250
thanks for the advise. I finally got to run the car today for the first time on the track. Car ran awesome and I ran the stock setup with the kit foams and didnt even true them. Actually got a few comments on the car. I did replace the spur gear, but after about 10 minutes of running on the track it stripped again. It does seem to shift a little hard but extremly hard. Didnt send the car in the air or wreck all day. I did take 1st gear of and looked at the mesh but it seemed ok to me. Got me on this one, guess I need to stock up on spurs if Im gonna run this car. But i will say out of the box it handled way better than my rrr. If matters the track is very high speed with good traction
03-02-2008, 01:10 PM
#1251
Tech Master
iTrader: (9)
thanks for the advise. I finally got to run the car today for the first time on the track. Car ran awesome and I ran the stock setup with the kit foams and didnt even true them. Actually got a few comments on the car. I did replace the spur gear, but after about 10 minutes of running on the track it stripped again. It does seem to shift a little hard but extremly hard. Didnt send the car in the air or wreck all day. I did take 1st gear of and looked at the mesh but it seemed ok to me. Got me on this one, guess I need to stock up on spurs if Im gonna run this car. But i will say out of the box it handled way better than my rrr. If matters the track is very high speed with good traction
We run our mugens hard and rarely strip a gear. Stuff happens though! As you look at the 2 speed hub and the clutch bell make sure they are not rubbing or touching anything else. Also on these cars as Olev said make sure you have the second gear mesh pretty tight, not binding but tighter than you would on a electiric car, and then when you put the first gear back on if its tight dont worry about it. It will loosen up and usually be perfect. PM me if you need to and hope to see you at the track sometime.
JEFF
03-02-2008, 02:09 PM
#1253
Tech Master
iTrader: (9)
I set them so there is no rocking back and forth to speak of. With new gears, when you spin a rear wheel backwards, you will notice the spur gear assembly spins very little before coming to a stop. If on new gears the whole assembly spins several revs easily you probably have the mesh too loose. I know this sounds a little vague. On the tight side is where you want to be. On the MTX3 you could get away with more gap because those pinions used more teeth and thus there was more teeth in contact with the spur.
JEFF
JEFF
03-02-2008, 02:15 PM
#1254
I had the stripping problem on my RRR and finally read on here about meshing with second only. I use a very thin piece of paper, like a cash register reciept, and stopped having that problem. I put the paper in and pull it tight against it, it leaves a small amount of play. Another thing I found out the hard way is that you must have the chassis brace on the car when you do this or it opens the mesh wider. So far I haven't had any problem since I changed to the MTX4 near the end of last year. It feels smoother straight out of the box
03-02-2008, 02:19 PM
#1255
thanks for all the advise, Today was the first time I ran a soild front axle, usually run a oneway and like the soild alot better so far. I couldnt believe how good the car was out of the box. Any advise on making the car better than what it is now? Another thing, does the 4r come with the 4mm rear shock tower? Havent had a chance to check yet
03-02-2008, 02:19 PM
#1256
Tech Master
iTrader: (9)
I had the stripping problem on my RRR and finally read on here about meshing with second only. I use a very thin piece of paper, like a cash register reciept, and stopped having that problem. I put the paper in and pull it tight against it, it leaves a small amount of play. Another thing I found out the hard way is that you must have the chassis brace on the car when you do this or it opens the mesh wider.
JEFF
03-02-2008, 02:35 PM
#1257
Tech Master
iTrader: (9)
thanks for all the advise, Today was the first time I ran a soild front axle, usually run a oneway and like the soild alot better so far. I couldnt believe how good the car was out of the box. Any advise on making the car better than what it is now? Another thing, does the 4r come with the 4mm rear shock tower? Havent had a chance to check yet
03-02-2008, 03:36 PM
#1258
Yea Jeff looking forward to seeing you and the rest of the family. I stripped 3 gears one day and didn't even make a full lap, then I saw my chassis brace on the table.
BTW Jeff when you doubled your front shock tower did you put it on the outside and do away with the shims??
BTW Jeff when you doubled your front shock tower did you put it on the outside and do away with the shims??
03-02-2008, 05:23 PM
#1259
thanks for the advise. I finally got to run the car today for the first time on the track. Car ran awesome and I ran the stock setup with the kit foams and didnt even true them. Actually got a few comments on the car. I did replace the spur gear, but after about 10 minutes of running on the track it stripped again. It does seem to shift a little hard but extremly hard. Didnt send the car in the air or wreck all day. I did take 1st gear of and looked at the mesh but it seemed ok to me. Got me on this one, guess I need to stock up on spurs if Im gonna run this car. But i will say out of the box it handled way better than my rrr. If matters the track is very high speed with good traction
See here:
http://www.nitrokb.com/mtx4/index.html
and here:
http://www.nitrokb.com/mtx4/pdf/mtx4...adjustment.pdf
I personally tried every idea on here and it still stripped on me. Then I bought a 4mm chassis and it's never happened since. Could be a combination of them all or just coincedence. I have no idea. All I know is they don't strip anymore and I'm glad.
03-02-2008, 07:20 PM
#1260
Well guys, I switched to the RRR. And had some problems with stripping gears also. I did a couple of things wrong that when put together equalled to total stripping of gears. Heres some of my experience with the RRR that can be applied to the MTX-4.
I dont have an MTX-4 with me anymore, but try this... Remember that with the MTX-3, you never stripped gears? I had the mtx-3 for about 2 years and I NEVER stripped a gear. What changed in the 2nd speed shoes was the material and that they eliminated the copper shims. So, my suggestion is, try putting the copper shims back on (when I say copper shims, means a hollow cylinder that runs freely through the screw). So, try to get the 2nd speed clutch shoes of a MTX-3, my understanding is that the MTX-3's shoes are harder, meaning that they will slip more and allow a smoother shifting (this last thing has been totally theoretic from my point of view). Also, try getting some Serpent diff balls and put them in there. They are bigger, so youll need to make a bigger hole for them. This is better than the stock ones, because they will deform rather slower and the added weight (come on, dont yell at me for adding 1g to your car) will make your shifting more progressive.
I dont have an MTX-4 with me anymore, but try this... Remember that with the MTX-3, you never stripped gears? I had the mtx-3 for about 2 years and I NEVER stripped a gear. What changed in the 2nd speed shoes was the material and that they eliminated the copper shims. So, my suggestion is, try putting the copper shims back on (when I say copper shims, means a hollow cylinder that runs freely through the screw). So, try to get the 2nd speed clutch shoes of a MTX-3, my understanding is that the MTX-3's shoes are harder, meaning that they will slip more and allow a smoother shifting (this last thing has been totally theoretic from my point of view). Also, try getting some Serpent diff balls and put them in there. They are bigger, so youll need to make a bigger hole for them. This is better than the stock ones, because they will deform rather slower and the added weight (come on, dont yell at me for adding 1g to your car) will make your shifting more progressive.