Should Pro Drivers Be Racing In Stock?
03-15-2007, 12:21 PM
#196
Originally Posted by peter_robinson
doesnt matter, any class that cherry is racing in automatically becomes the beginners class...
to change the topic a bit, he is the true testament to the harm that traction compound can do to a person. blind, bald and actually (no joke here) thinks that he was abducted by aliens some years ago...
to change the topic a bit, he is the true testament to the harm that traction compound can do to a person. blind, bald and actually (no joke here) thinks that he was abducted by aliens some years ago...
Completely stop supporting the stock program long ago and will continue untill the beginner`s get their race back
and team driver`s such as your self do the same....
03-15-2007, 12:41 PM
#198
Cherry, you damn well know peter races modified at club and local events......maybe sometimes in offroad he runs stock, mainly because he NEVER races offroad and has no sponsors for offroad.....
National races are not for BEGINNERS.....never have been, never will be.....thats the joke part of our hobby.....anyone can sign up for nationals without actually EARNING it....and REALLY, does a beginner really benefit at all from spending $500 to compete at a national event?
Geezus, even in GOLF you have to qualify for the US open......
Stock was NEVER meant to be a beginner class......even your great Team AE cherry won a stock world title....stock was removed later because they wanted it to just be one class.....not because they wanted to turn into a beginner class...
Go back and look at history cherry.....even your idol scott brown did it.....88 Summer Sizzler, stock and mod champ....numerous stock titles after that as a FULL FACTORY Losi driver....
Later EddieO
National races are not for BEGINNERS.....never have been, never will be.....thats the joke part of our hobby.....anyone can sign up for nationals without actually EARNING it....and REALLY, does a beginner really benefit at all from spending $500 to compete at a national event?
Geezus, even in GOLF you have to qualify for the US open......
Stock was NEVER meant to be a beginner class......even your great Team AE cherry won a stock world title....stock was removed later because they wanted it to just be one class.....not because they wanted to turn into a beginner class...
Go back and look at history cherry.....even your idol scott brown did it.....88 Summer Sizzler, stock and mod champ....numerous stock titles after that as a FULL FACTORY Losi driver....
Later EddieO
03-15-2007, 01:02 PM
#199
Just busting your chops Steve....LOL!!!
Abducted by Aliens? LMFAO!!! I didn't think Paragon was that harmful to brain cells...
Abducted by Aliens? LMFAO!!! I didn't think Paragon was that harmful to brain cells...
03-15-2007, 01:41 PM
#200
Yes, Wild Cherry believes he was kidnapped by aliens.....I am not sure about the whole story, as I leave when the whole Anal Probe thing comes up.......maybe there was a stock motor in the anal probe.....hence why he hates them so much, was probably brushed too.
Later EddieO
Later EddieO
03-15-2007, 01:48 PM
#201
Originally Posted by EddieO
Yes, Wild Cherry believes he was kidnapped by aliens.....I am not sure about the whole story, as I leave when the whole Anal Probe thing comes up.......maybe there was a stock motor in the anal probe.....hence why he hates them so much, was probably brushed too.
Later EddieO
Later EddieO
03-15-2007, 03:27 PM
#202
Originally Posted by EddieO
National races are not for BEGINNERS.....never have been, never will be.....thats the joke part of our hobby.....anyone can sign up for nationals without actually EARNING it....and REALLY, does a beginner really benefit at all from spending $500 to compete at a national event?
Stock was NEVER meant to be a beginner class......even your great Team AE cherry won a stock world title....stock was removed later because they wanted it to just be one class.....not because they wanted to turn into a beginner class...
Go back and look at history cherry.....even your idol scott brown did it.....88 Summer Sizzler, stock and mod champ....numerous stock titles after that as a FULL FACTORY Losi driver....
Later EddieO
Stock was NEVER meant to be a beginner class......even your great Team AE cherry won a stock world title....stock was removed later because they wanted it to just be one class.....not because they wanted to turn into a beginner class...
Go back and look at history cherry.....even your idol scott brown did it.....88 Summer Sizzler, stock and mod champ....numerous stock titles after that as a FULL FACTORY Losi driver....
Later EddieO
As far as Associated winning stock, this was due to the fact that the only 2 categories back then were 12th stock and 12th mod. When 10th scale was incorporated (Pan first) stock disappeared.
Finally, Scott Brown in '88 was an up and comer, he was not yet a full blown Factory Travel guy, he was more of a support driver. He did not become a House hold name until '93 in Basildon, England at the Offroad Worlds, where seemingly out of nowhere, he Qualified 2nd place behind Joel in 2wd mod with the new Losi XX. There was a special feature in Car Action on who this guy was for this reason. I'm not saying he didn't win Nationals in Stock afterwards, Kortz and J.D. Beckwidth also did, but this is when ROAR divided the Off Road nats into a separate event in stock and mod to keep ringers from competing in the AMATEUR class.
03-15-2007, 03:36 PM
#203
Yeah , Used to a time when you won Stock Nats most moved up to mod class....
Those were the days ....
Those were the days ....
03-15-2007, 03:40 PM
#204
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
Yeah , Used to a time when you won Stock Nats most moved up to mod class....
Those were the days ....
Those were the days ....
03-15-2007, 05:04 PM
#205
Tech Regular
Batteries right out of the counter at CEFX finished 4th in 12th scale stock and 7th in TC stock at the Nationals. Ran the same 4 cell pack in all 3 mains. Same for the TC pack. Some might have finished higher with store bought packs, but I can only speak for myself. I would put more practice, better motor setup knowledge and setting up the car waaaayyyy ahead of "factory" packs.
03-15-2007, 05:18 PM
#206
Tech Adept
Hey guys,
I only raced once this winter for a couple of reasons. First and foremost there just wasn't a mod class in my area even though in my opinion we have more than enough people to make it work. I don't like running stock because I just can't progress beyond where I am currently unless I make the move. Lastly, I really don't have the cash to pursue racing like I used to. Although if I wanted to I could.
When I started racing I dreamt of running mod with the fast guys. I knew I needed lots of practice to get there so I just kept working at it. A big win in stock to me is like graduating from high school and then going to college. But now, it seems like people are content with themselves if they win stock. A lot of the locals rant and rave about how some of them have done so well running masters and stock for several years. The 1st time they won it's great. Shows that they have put there dues in and they truly deserve that win. However, after proving themselves in stock they don't move up. They claim it's because of cost but these guys have just as much money wrapped up in stock as they would to run mod. So after several big wins I've lost a lot of respect for them. Not because they are a bunch of A@#es but because they can't swallow there pride and start over.
I also don't see the nationals as the only proving ground. Any moderate sized race works. If you can manage a win in stock at a local trophy race against 30 or 40 other people, to me, that shows it's time to move on. You've now graduated and have the skills required to take it to the next level.
I have more respect for the guy who finishes dead last in mod than I do for the guy that wins stock on a regular basis. But, I guess in the end some people are just content with where they are and some people strive for greatness. Those who continue to dominate stock are content but the last place mod driver wants greatness.
Of course there are other factors that have led to the increase of sponsored stock racers and the decline in popularity of TC. Most importantly though is the speed. With today's current crop of stock motors and batteries you could have dominated mod 10 years ago. When TC was just taking off. This may be why touring car is declining. Initially the learning curve wasn't as steep. An old original RS4 could be taken to the track in the hands of a newbie and not utterly destroyed. That same car could then be taken immediatly to the local parking lot. If you take any of the current crop of cars to a parking lot it will essentially self-destruct. And although this isn't a foam vs. rubber thread a car set-up on rubber tires is much easier to take from the track to the parking lot and vice versa than a car on foamies. I feel cost has a large part to play also. Sure batteries and tires have come down but the initial cost now for a kit is exponentially higer than it was 10 years ago. Heck, there isn't even a decent entry-level kit offered anymore besides the TA05. Sure there are the X-ray R series but they aren't exactly easy to get parts for.
Just my $0.02
I only raced once this winter for a couple of reasons. First and foremost there just wasn't a mod class in my area even though in my opinion we have more than enough people to make it work. I don't like running stock because I just can't progress beyond where I am currently unless I make the move. Lastly, I really don't have the cash to pursue racing like I used to. Although if I wanted to I could.
When I started racing I dreamt of running mod with the fast guys. I knew I needed lots of practice to get there so I just kept working at it. A big win in stock to me is like graduating from high school and then going to college. But now, it seems like people are content with themselves if they win stock. A lot of the locals rant and rave about how some of them have done so well running masters and stock for several years. The 1st time they won it's great. Shows that they have put there dues in and they truly deserve that win. However, after proving themselves in stock they don't move up. They claim it's because of cost but these guys have just as much money wrapped up in stock as they would to run mod. So after several big wins I've lost a lot of respect for them. Not because they are a bunch of A@#es but because they can't swallow there pride and start over.
I also don't see the nationals as the only proving ground. Any moderate sized race works. If you can manage a win in stock at a local trophy race against 30 or 40 other people, to me, that shows it's time to move on. You've now graduated and have the skills required to take it to the next level.
I have more respect for the guy who finishes dead last in mod than I do for the guy that wins stock on a regular basis. But, I guess in the end some people are just content with where they are and some people strive for greatness. Those who continue to dominate stock are content but the last place mod driver wants greatness.
Of course there are other factors that have led to the increase of sponsored stock racers and the decline in popularity of TC. Most importantly though is the speed. With today's current crop of stock motors and batteries you could have dominated mod 10 years ago. When TC was just taking off. This may be why touring car is declining. Initially the learning curve wasn't as steep. An old original RS4 could be taken to the track in the hands of a newbie and not utterly destroyed. That same car could then be taken immediatly to the local parking lot. If you take any of the current crop of cars to a parking lot it will essentially self-destruct. And although this isn't a foam vs. rubber thread a car set-up on rubber tires is much easier to take from the track to the parking lot and vice versa than a car on foamies. I feel cost has a large part to play also. Sure batteries and tires have come down but the initial cost now for a kit is exponentially higer than it was 10 years ago. Heck, there isn't even a decent entry-level kit offered anymore besides the TA05. Sure there are the X-ray R series but they aren't exactly easy to get parts for.
Just my $0.02
03-15-2007, 05:20 PM
#207
We have some facts sorely mixed up here...
First, Scott Brown is a local....we have known each other since we were both kids. Scott was a factory fly boy before 93.....he won numerous stock titles before then and even after...
And the AE worlds comment was in reference to offroad....
ROAR stock and mod nats were divided not because of sandbaggers, but because the event was simply too large to house all in one weekend....they wer e turning away racers at alarming rate....so they pulled them apart...
And needless to say....the event is now COMBINED again, because of a massive drop in attendance due to touring cars and gas offroad....
And speaking of the summer sizzler....that was the true show of event having a beginner class.....I placed 2nd in Novice in 1989...the event had a E main in novice and a J main in stock....stock was super competive, with mulitple guys running stock and mod.....us beginners were in novice....though in the end, my time was good enough to be like top 30 overall....
Later EddieO
First, Scott Brown is a local....we have known each other since we were both kids. Scott was a factory fly boy before 93.....he won numerous stock titles before then and even after...
And the AE worlds comment was in reference to offroad....
ROAR stock and mod nats were divided not because of sandbaggers, but because the event was simply too large to house all in one weekend....they wer e turning away racers at alarming rate....so they pulled them apart...
And needless to say....the event is now COMBINED again, because of a massive drop in attendance due to touring cars and gas offroad....
And speaking of the summer sizzler....that was the true show of event having a beginner class.....I placed 2nd in Novice in 1989...the event had a E main in novice and a J main in stock....stock was super competive, with mulitple guys running stock and mod.....us beginners were in novice....though in the end, my time was good enough to be like top 30 overall....
Later EddieO
03-15-2007, 05:39 PM
#208
Perhaps I was wrong about Scott and the amount of support he received, but not about the house-hold name aspect of it. But, the main reason the Nationals were separated in offroad was to keep Pro's out of stock. Robert Morgan was President of ROAR for most of the early 90's (probably the best prez we ever had), he was a local here in Houston (not a racer, but rather Mechanic for his son, Jonathan) and Pro's in stock was one of his largest pet peeves. He always lobbied for this and achieved it right around he retired from ROAR.
In the case of On-road, which is where the Problem stems, the rule was and is: You run stock, you don't run modified. This IS a rule that was established to keep Full FACTORY support guys out of the stock classes. Later On, they even added 19 turn to further disuade drivers from participating in again: the AMATEUR class, and even after that we still get Full Factory guys running in stock. Not at their fault, but rather at the manufacturers who don't realize they hurt the hobby by invading and intimidating their customers in the amateur class.
In the case of On-road, which is where the Problem stems, the rule was and is: You run stock, you don't run modified. This IS a rule that was established to keep Full FACTORY support guys out of the stock classes. Later On, they even added 19 turn to further disuade drivers from participating in again: the AMATEUR class, and even after that we still get Full Factory guys running in stock. Not at their fault, but rather at the manufacturers who don't realize they hurt the hobby by invading and intimidating their customers in the amateur class.
03-15-2007, 05:47 PM
#209
Now from what I have heard from some of our locals, How many of them have a choice to run in the modified class? What car manufactures are dictating to them what classes they run? How many of those races where they ran stock would they have prefrered to run Mod? I have been told by differant local factory drivers (Full or Partial) that they don't have a choice. So, maybe the blame is not on the driver and should go to the Team's Race Manager. Maybe there should be a one year rule for those Factory drivers where once they have a Factory ride they are allowed one year at a National level before they should move to 19T or Mod.
Just my 2bits.
RedRocket
I bet Micro is ready for something else. Peter too if he wasn't retired.
Just my 2bits.
RedRocket
I bet Micro is ready for something else. Peter too if he wasn't retired.
03-15-2007, 07:50 PM
#210
would it make a difference if a privateer racer was winning all the big stock class races? Would you still want to kick out a talented self funded racer? What if that racer simply wasn't intrested in running anything other than stock class? Should they be kicked out of a class that they are intrested in?
When did ROAR ever say that "stock class" was an amateur class? How do you have an amateur national championship? Would that make the best stock drivers professional amateurs?
The only thing that defined stock class was a spec 27 turn single wind motor locked at 24 degrees timing with bushings. Just because a class uses a spec motor does not make it an amateur class. If you want an amatuer class, then start separating the classes by skill level, not by equipment. Novice, Amatuer, and Professional.
When did ROAR ever say that "stock class" was an amateur class? How do you have an amateur national championship? Would that make the best stock drivers professional amateurs?
The only thing that defined stock class was a spec 27 turn single wind motor locked at 24 degrees timing with bushings. Just because a class uses a spec motor does not make it an amateur class. If you want an amatuer class, then start separating the classes by skill level, not by equipment. Novice, Amatuer, and Professional.
Last edited by Scrubb; 03-15-2007 at 08:04 PM.
