Will rubber carpet overtake Foam carpet in the future???
08-18-2007, 07:16 AM
#151
I have no problems running foams (love the traction) but I prefer rubber tires.
The most overlooked point is that if you know what your doing and drive reasonably well and your on pace with your competition your foams will last a month. But if your testing set ups and practicing a lot trying to improve your lap times, you could easily burn through 2-3 sets of foams in less than a week.
Rubber tires can last 2 months and maybe longer. I wouldnt want to race 2 month old rubber tires in the main, but, they are still viable for practice. The same cant be said about 2 month old foams.
One could argue against practicing with the older rubber tires because they have lost their edge, but I've found that if the car is working o.k. with practice tires, it works even better with fresh tires.
The most overlooked point is that if you know what your doing and drive reasonably well and your on pace with your competition your foams will last a month. But if your testing set ups and practicing a lot trying to improve your lap times, you could easily burn through 2-3 sets of foams in less than a week.
Rubber tires can last 2 months and maybe longer. I wouldnt want to race 2 month old rubber tires in the main, but, they are still viable for practice. The same cant be said about 2 month old foams.
One could argue against practicing with the older rubber tires because they have lost their edge, but I've found that if the car is working o.k. with practice tires, it works even better with fresh tires.
08-18-2007, 07:31 AM
#152
The trick we've found at our track to not going broke club racing rubber tires is to have 2 or 3 sets and change tires after 1 or 2 runs. That way your not wearing out one set. After a cycle or two they seem to get a little gooey and makes the car a little fishy feeling. Leaving those tires alone for a day or two makes them come back and be ready for the next day of racing. Club racing, I'll run the 3 sets for 3 months or a little more. This is club racing on carpet with cs27s as the spec tire. Big races are a completly different thing though.
09-20-2007, 08:30 AM
#153
I was looking at the entry list for IIC and noticed that there were 183 Foam TC entries and 150 Rubber TC entries. That's 1.22 Foam racers for every 1 Rubber racer. The Stock classes only differed by 8 entries. I found that surpirsing. 
Foam
MOD 48
19T 62
STK 73
Rubber
MOD 38
19T 47
STK 65
Foam
MOD 48
19T 62
STK 73
Rubber
MOD 38
19T 47
STK 65
09-20-2007, 10:18 PM
#155
I was looking at the entry list for IIC and noticed that there were 183 Foam TC entries and 150 Rubber TC entries. That's 1.22 Foam racers for every 1 Rubber racer. The Stock classes only differed by 8 entries. I found that surpirsing.
Foam
MOD 48
19T 62
STK 73
Rubber
MOD 38
19T 47
STK 65
Foam
MOD 48
19T 62
STK 73
Rubber
MOD 38
19T 47
STK 65
09-21-2007, 07:01 AM
#156
this is not indictive of club racing on carpet in the states as a good portion of the rubber tyre drivers are from out of country. look at that mix and you will see that the states is the last vestige of electric foam TC racing in the world. I say that with the knowledge that any where else that you have nitro TC and 12th scale they will all be foam as that is the most logical tire choice to get the most consistant traction and life out of a set of tires on those cars. Rubber Tyres are being stuffed down our throat by europe and japan because they have the notion that rubber lasts longer if used in a controlled meeting which is usually how there club/meeting races are run. there are more local clubs that have no control of tire usage in the states. take a look at snowbirds which is not touted as a international race and I believe they only had a handful of rubber tyre entrees. and Cleveland the oldest running RC race in the states as far as I know is foam only after a short stint in the 90s running rubber. even the carpet Roar nats is foam after being rubber for a couple years in the 90s. again Vegas is an exception to the rule of large races here in the states. the Halloween Classic tried to have a rubber tyre class last year only 4 people signed up. you can try to tell me rubber is better but I ran my foams down to the plastic and didn't fall off till the plastic was showing. I would rather have consistant traction and replace the foam once a month then be able to run for a year on one set of rubber tyres but be 3 to 4 tenths off after the first 2 or 3 runs. because someone will always put a new set on for the main if they have a bigger pocketbook then you.
On the other hand, if I am willing to sacrifice those 6-8 seconds (it won't take me from the "E" main to the "B" anyway) then I can run more races, more track time, have more fun, and be able to afford it. I need track time more than anything. Last winter foam tire cost really hurt my ability to race regularly, things get tight around YE, Christmas, etc. I have enough rubber tires at least I can get on the track every week even several times a week until spring. But I agree if you're near the top and want every edge, rubber tires can get real expensive in a hurry.
09-21-2007, 02:41 PM
#157
Tech Apprentice
Foam/ Rubber which is better? Depends on who you talk to?
At our local track (asphalt) there is a pretty even mix of foam and rubber tire guys. I see how fast the foams wear down and it is one reason I don't use em. I don't wanna have to buy a new set of tires for every 3 races. I buy about 3-4 sets to last the season. We are allowed to use any tire we want and what ever sauce we want. The track temp determines what compound I run.
We do not separate the foam and rubber tire guys, we all run together. Sometimes the guy on foams wins sometime the guys on rubber wins (generally a pretty even mix). Mostly it is about car set up and driving ability.
Yeah I do not finish in the top three but,I go racing to have a good time, hang out with buddies and give me something to do in the evenings (wrench on car).
It all depends on how much you have to spend on the hobby. Tires are not the last area of this. A new $400 TC hits the market every year. Guys go brushless to increase speed, none of those systems are cheap. Lipo batteries are not cheap, nor all the upgraded electronics that go with, ie new charger.
So go out there drive like hell and have fun if you win you win if you lose you lose.
At our local track (asphalt) there is a pretty even mix of foam and rubber tire guys. I see how fast the foams wear down and it is one reason I don't use em. I don't wanna have to buy a new set of tires for every 3 races. I buy about 3-4 sets to last the season. We are allowed to use any tire we want and what ever sauce we want. The track temp determines what compound I run.
We do not separate the foam and rubber tire guys, we all run together. Sometimes the guy on foams wins sometime the guys on rubber wins (generally a pretty even mix). Mostly it is about car set up and driving ability.
Yeah I do not finish in the top three but,I go racing to have a good time, hang out with buddies and give me something to do in the evenings (wrench on car).
It all depends on how much you have to spend on the hobby. Tires are not the last area of this. A new $400 TC hits the market every year. Guys go brushless to increase speed, none of those systems are cheap. Lipo batteries are not cheap, nor all the upgraded electronics that go with, ie new charger.
So go out there drive like hell and have fun if you win you win if you lose you lose.
09-21-2007, 02:53 PM
#158
I'm having trouble believing this, did he actually tell you directly? Because everywhere I have run rubber tires on medium to high traction carpet or asphalt (not that I really ever run rubber tires.... LOL 
), a used tire is going to make more traction than a new tire. Reason being, as a tire gets more heat cycles and compound cycles the tire breaks down from the compound, which is what compound does, it softens the rubber by breaking it down and making more grip. So after a few runs the tire is significantly softer from the rubber being broken down making a worn out tire have more traction. This is a little different though on low traction, but that's not what we're talking about. But it is true gluing the sidewalls will take away side bite. But a fresh set of tires will always traction roll less than a used set.
), a used tire is going to make more traction than a new tire. Reason being, as a tire gets more heat cycles and compound cycles the tire breaks down from the compound, which is what compound does, it softens the rubber by breaking it down and making more grip. So after a few runs the tire is significantly softer from the rubber being broken down making a worn out tire have more traction. This is a little different though on low traction, but that's not what we're talking about. But it is true gluing the sidewalls will take away side bite. But a fresh set of tires will always traction roll less than a used set.It's true that they do lose some traction but in a big event there's so much more traction compound and foam ground into the carpet that it never becomes in issue. Scrubbing off traction is the issue.
09-21-2007, 03:03 PM
#159
This is true to a certain extent but the track does pick up after one qualifier on any given race day. You just have to adjust your setup to get more traction out of the car as opposed to relying on the tires only.
09-21-2007, 03:09 PM
#160
I completely agree that there's no point in going crazy on tires for club racing. Even for big events, I still will probably only get two new sets and will only change a set if I damage a rim or I need a fresh starting point for a setup. That did happen once to me at our local big champs race. The car just wouldn't do anything I wanted so I slapped on a new set of rubber and it was all good again. But I still don't think you need a new set at a big race for anything less than 5 runs, and that's only if you're a really fast driver that can really tell the difference of a couple tenths from the stand.
09-21-2007, 03:13 PM
#161
if you pick a compound hard enough thats likely not going to happen. AGain its 100% random and fair. IF you run TAKEOFF tires they have a supper long life span. Again this is club racing, and it would be for a sereis, not nessarily the new rule for rubber racing. IT would be something to try. Burn up a motor in one night for sure it can happen, but i think the tires hold up pretty good.
Meh, I think spec tires should only be in place if the club drivers are animals that are willing to drop serious coin to go fast. You know our club isn't really like that right now, Joel, although it was once. If that attitude comes back, it might be time for a spec rule, but it's not a necessity for sure.
09-21-2007, 03:19 PM
#162
Lol. I was kinda thinking that too. I actually just started running a TC5 and that car is a foam car right out of the box. It's fast just the way it is, hard springs and all! Also, one of our fastest guys is using the stock parts and is consistantly in the top 3. And our club has FAST drivers in the A-main.
You don't need to fork a buttload of money out to run quick on rubber tires with any chassis. You just have to learn how to drive.
09-21-2007, 03:52 PM
#163
How do the Sorex 28 compare to the Vtec 24r. I was reading on another site that the sorex 24r is a better carpet tyre than their 28.
What is the best carpet tyre for grip and longevity? I've only used the vtec's so don't have anything to compare them to.
09-21-2007, 04:49 PM
#164
I find 28Rs more than grippy enough and they last quite awhile. I usually run TakeOff CS22s and I find they last a very long time with good traction. If you want decent traction with long wear, the CS27s work very well.
I think the TakeOff tires offer the most consistant traction through they're lifespan.
I think the TakeOff tires offer the most consistant traction through they're lifespan.
09-21-2007, 05:31 PM
#165
if rubber belonged on carpet, we wouldve been running them on 12th scale cars this whole time!
just playn'
just playn'