Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.
05-09-2007, 10:30 PM
#1246
You can see a few shots of the GM here:
http://data1.blog.de/media/731/1417731_370645a1ab_o.jpg
http://data1.blog.de/media/730/1417730_eb3bf224e7_o.jpg
http://data1.blog.de/media/729/1417729_0d7ef5c527_o.jpg
http://data1.blog.de/media/999/1423999_814e426d63_o.jpg
http://data1.blog.de/media/998/1423998_9e1114cfc9_o.jpg
http://data4.blog.de/media/151/1473151_da154d96c6_o.jpg (Genius 95)
More shots from the race here. It's interesting to see what brushless combinations are being used by pro drivers in a situation where BL is basically a necessity (5 cell mod).
I can't get definitive information on how it handles LRP & Novak motors without the sensors. I'd buy one and try it if someone would sell the darn thing. :-)
http://data1.blog.de/media/731/1417731_370645a1ab_o.jpg
http://data1.blog.de/media/730/1417730_eb3bf224e7_o.jpg
http://data1.blog.de/media/729/1417729_0d7ef5c527_o.jpg
http://data1.blog.de/media/999/1423999_814e426d63_o.jpg
http://data1.blog.de/media/998/1423998_9e1114cfc9_o.jpg
http://data4.blog.de/media/151/1473151_da154d96c6_o.jpg (Genius 95)
More shots from the race here. It's interesting to see what brushless combinations are being used by pro drivers in a situation where BL is basically a necessity (5 cell mod).
I can't get definitive information on how it handles LRP & Novak motors without the sensors. I'd buy one and try it if someone would sell the darn thing. :-)
05-09-2007, 11:24 PM
#1247
Thanks for the Links. Now that is one way to keep the speed control cooler.
I don't think GM has had a distributor here for many years. I have owned one GM speed controller back when they had distribution. It worked fine and was cutting edge and very small with the use of surface mount components. The manual was very poorly translated into English and so most people could not begin to program it.
John
I don't think GM has had a distributor here for many years. I have owned one GM speed controller back when they had distribution. It worked fine and was cutting edge and very small with the use of surface mount components. The manual was very poorly translated into English and so most people could not begin to program it.
John
05-10-2007, 03:13 AM
#1248
i have a 7700 that i used for 2 packs that i dont need anymore. still factory connectors on it. some1 need 1?
my MM 5700 setup is okay, still gettin used to it, and the prgm'g. starts are dreadful, but i'll try to figure it out.
R
my MM 5700 setup is okay, still gettin used to it, and the prgm'g. starts are dreadful, but i'll try to figure it out.
R
05-10-2007, 05:32 AM
#1249
Tech Regular
Hi John, your work with the Pantoura is excellant! I have recently picked up a RC-10L2 which I'm still working on. I also have 2 other road cars which I'm playing with, a 1/8 pan and a 1/10 "pan" with IRS. Also you might look at Horizon for GM speed controls- I do know they have brushed GM controls. Don
05-10-2007, 09:32 AM
#1250
Originally Posted by syndr0me
It's disappointing that GM's Genius 95 (100?) isn't more readily available in the states. I'm inclined to think maybe they've got the sensorless thing working better than other companies. The drivers that used it at the recent LRP race (appeared to be a prototype Genius 100) all opted to go sensorless based on the pictures, and they had a choice, as the ESC supports Hall sensors as well. What little I've read about their gear has been extremely positive. Maybe Orion will OEM it like they seemed to be working on a while back.
All of the GM motors do have sensors but indeed noone of their drivers are using sensors. It seems there was something wrong with the last batch of the Genius 95 ESC so it wasn´t available since some time. From what I hear this is solved and production will restart soon so should be available in Germany next month. I think the Genius 100 maybe needs some more time as this one will use a new case with improved cooling.
I can´t wait any longer for the GM or the Tekin as I don´t have a brushless system yet but need one in less than 4 weeks so ordered a Sphere TC Spec today. I think should work pretty good.
05-10-2007, 10:59 AM
#1251
V12-I think you will be very happy with the sphere comp TC edition. I was very happy with my sphere. It shows a cooling kit installed. Get a cooling kit if it does not come with one. I would have ordered it myself but it is not quite in the supply chain yet. Associated's USA web site does list it now. The part number ends in 50. Thank you for your posts. I do read every word even if I don't comment.
DLSII-Thanks. That's an interesting car you have there. I assume the independent rear drive one is the 1/8 scale you are talking about. Where did you get a body. Your painted body has a nice decal set. I wish I could get a body with a nice decal set. I have a McAllister Nissan on the way.
Ultergrasti- You have a PM. Think of the Glory.
I see that Horizon is indeed carrying GM stuff. Backordered. Last I checked they were putting adds in the magazine looking for a distributor. Thanks for the update. Here is a link to Horizons GM speed controls.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=GM%20speed%20Control&CatId=
DLSII-Thanks. That's an interesting car you have there. I assume the independent rear drive one is the 1/8 scale you are talking about. Where did you get a body. Your painted body has a nice decal set. I wish I could get a body with a nice decal set. I have a McAllister Nissan on the way.
Ultergrasti- You have a PM. Think of the Glory.
I see that Horizon is indeed carrying GM stuff. Backordered. Last I checked they were putting adds in the magazine looking for a distributor. Thanks for the update. Here is a link to Horizons GM speed controls.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=GM%20speed%20Control&CatId=
Last edited by John Stranahan; 05-10-2007 at 11:11 AM.
05-10-2007, 11:46 AM
#1252
Tech Regular
Actually the 1/10 scale has the IRS. The 1/8 is a full pan. Here's a couple more pictures of the 1/8. Don
05-10-2007, 12:08 PM
#1253
John
Talked this evening with a driver using a TC Spec (just 3 hours after I ordered mine) and he´s very happy with the TC. Runs very cool and very smooth. The cooling kit is included and the thermal monitoring seems really useful so you know if you near thermal shutdown or not.
Talked this evening with a driver using a TC Spec (just 3 hours after I ordered mine) and he´s very happy with the TC. Runs very cool and very smooth. The cooling kit is included and the thermal monitoring seems really useful so you know if you near thermal shutdown or not.
05-10-2007, 12:12 PM
#1254
Originally Posted by John Stranahan
I see that Horizon is indeed carrying GM stuff. Backordered. Last I checked they were putting adds in the magazine looking for a distributor. Thanks for the update. Here is a link to Horizons GM speed controls.
I'm surprised manufacturers aren't sending you free equipment to test. You seem to be putting far more into your research than anybody else has, and push equipment to the fringes of its ability. Maybe it would be difficult to be so candid if you were in that position though. That's one of the things that makes this thread epic.
05-10-2007, 01:05 PM
#1255
I do not want to bash GM but they have had serious quality issues over the last year and a half.
Nearly every set I have seen being used has had either its motor or its ESC send in for warranty repairs. And I've seen about 30 sets used by fellow racers.
GM's service is very good. They really try to make the best of it.
LRP also has some quality issues with their ESC's.
I have seen some burnouts.
The most stable I've seen thus far is the Novak sets.
They 2 had some troubles, but not nearly as much as GM or LRP.
If I had to buy a new set for Pro10, I'd get a Novak 4.5 set and buy a seperate sintered rotor.
V12, are you coming to the German Masters in Velp in september?
Nearly every set I have seen being used has had either its motor or its ESC send in for warranty repairs. And I've seen about 30 sets used by fellow racers.
GM's service is very good. They really try to make the best of it.
LRP also has some quality issues with their ESC's.
I have seen some burnouts.
The most stable I've seen thus far is the Novak sets.
They 2 had some troubles, but not nearly as much as GM or LRP.
If I had to buy a new set for Pro10, I'd get a Novak 4.5 set and buy a seperate sintered rotor.
V12, are you coming to the German Masters in Velp in september?
05-10-2007, 01:25 PM
#1256
Hi Mathijs
yes I think so. Maybe I´m coming before for practice. It´s just not sure what I´m running.
yes I think so. Maybe I´m coming before for practice. It´s just not sure what I´m running.
05-10-2007, 04:09 PM
#1257
V12-Thanks for the LRP report. That LRP TC edition really would be my favorite right now if I could order it through normal channels.
Mathijs-Thanks for the GM report.
Syndrome- Well occasionally I get some free stuff. Precision Racing System Gears. Soon after my test, they were available at Stormer Hobbies. Trinity Flat wire and Round wire Armatures in a 10 x1 for use in a touring car on our track. These test were published on another thread and submitted for publication. Occasionally I get some reduced price stuff to test for publication in my thread. I'll be happy to test free stuff that could be used onroad. My funds are limited.
The big difference when I test something vs a magazine test is that I can actually "drive the car pretty good" "can setup the car pretty good" and have a good technical background. I notice some problems that most people would just write off as normal.
Mamba Max continued
I had four good runs today. I solved a rough brake issue by reducing the gear play to the absolute minimim. The motor stayed in better control during braking and I could use normal levels of brakes on my hairpins today. I could not blame this early brake roughness on the pinion as I am using a nice large 15 tooth pinion on the 4.5R motor. I found some old stock Titanium Nitride Coated 14 and 15 tooth hardened steel pinions at Stormer. These pinions are long and cover the whole spur preventing the plastic from fraying on the edges robbing power. They are on the way.
I had one incident in a delicate corner where the motor had a long cog causing a mini spin (the rear slid out 4 inches) then it caught again. Otherwise I had no mid corner problems in four runs. I have arranged to get a ultergrasi's 7700 mamba motor to see if you guys are "
lying dogs" or not.
I worked on roll centers and got the car where I liked it. Plan to test the new Front suspension #3 next. I may have a ThunderPowerExtremeSeries LiPo to test next week.
Mathijs-Thanks for the GM report.
Syndrome- Well occasionally I get some free stuff. Precision Racing System Gears. Soon after my test, they were available at Stormer Hobbies. Trinity Flat wire and Round wire Armatures in a 10 x1 for use in a touring car on our track. These test were published on another thread and submitted for publication. Occasionally I get some reduced price stuff to test for publication in my thread. I'll be happy to test free stuff that could be used onroad. My funds are limited.
The big difference when I test something vs a magazine test is that I can actually "drive the car pretty good" "can setup the car pretty good" and have a good technical background. I notice some problems that most people would just write off as normal.
Mamba Max continued
I had four good runs today. I solved a rough brake issue by reducing the gear play to the absolute minimim. The motor stayed in better control during braking and I could use normal levels of brakes on my hairpins today. I could not blame this early brake roughness on the pinion as I am using a nice large 15 tooth pinion on the 4.5R motor. I found some old stock Titanium Nitride Coated 14 and 15 tooth hardened steel pinions at Stormer. These pinions are long and cover the whole spur preventing the plastic from fraying on the edges robbing power. They are on the way.
I had one incident in a delicate corner where the motor had a long cog causing a mini spin (the rear slid out 4 inches) then it caught again. Otherwise I had no mid corner problems in four runs. I have arranged to get a ultergrasi's 7700 mamba motor to see if you guys are "
lying dogs" or not.I worked on roll centers and got the car where I liked it. Plan to test the new Front suspension #3 next. I may have a ThunderPowerExtremeSeries LiPo to test next week.
05-10-2007, 06:01 PM
#1258
Originally Posted by syndr0me
I'm surprised manufacturers aren't sending you free equipment to test. You seem to be putting far more into your research than anybody else has, and push equipment to the fringes of its ability. Maybe it would be difficult to be so candid if you were in that position though. That's one of the things that makes this thread epic.
05-10-2007, 08:08 PM
#1259
DLSII-I just saw your post tell us how that 1/8 scale runs when you get a chance. Thanks for the pics.
ThunderPower Extreme Series LiPo
Here is some info on the new LiPo battery. It is the extreme series from Thunderpower and made by Enerland in Korea. Discharge rate is 20-25C continuous. The chemistry is not divulged. They promise me their latest chemistry. There are some specs on a similar battery in a pdf file from Enerland.com
The battery is supposed to retain 70% of its runtime for 500 cycles at 1C. 70% of runtime for 50 cycles at 30C. If you interpolate these numbers you end up with about 325 cycles at 10 C which is about where my pan car is. Now 70% used up is a little more than we usually tolerate in RC Cars so this cycle life is probably well over what can be realistically achieved. We will see.
Some of the data from this site suggests that heat rather than deep discharge is what degrades the cell. It is better then to have two short runs with a briefer recharge in between when practicing to avoid the high temp at a deep discharge at high amp rate. My packs are coming off about 140 F at a full discharge. The internal cell connectors run much hotter as they melt the shrink on the end of the MaxAmp packs. The tape around the connectors is high temperature stuff so no worry of a short.
Charge rates of up to 3C !!!! can be achieved if you use their 1010 C Charger. Now that would be nice. Send me one of those puppies and I will give it a good test.
I was averaging about 28 amp during practice this week. Traction is not quite as good as on race day.
John
ThunderPower Extreme Series LiPo
Here is some info on the new LiPo battery. It is the extreme series from Thunderpower and made by Enerland in Korea. Discharge rate is 20-25C continuous. The chemistry is not divulged. They promise me their latest chemistry. There are some specs on a similar battery in a pdf file from Enerland.com
The battery is supposed to retain 70% of its runtime for 500 cycles at 1C. 70% of runtime for 50 cycles at 30C. If you interpolate these numbers you end up with about 325 cycles at 10 C which is about where my pan car is. Now 70% used up is a little more than we usually tolerate in RC Cars so this cycle life is probably well over what can be realistically achieved. We will see.
Some of the data from this site suggests that heat rather than deep discharge is what degrades the cell. It is better then to have two short runs with a briefer recharge in between when practicing to avoid the high temp at a deep discharge at high amp rate. My packs are coming off about 140 F at a full discharge. The internal cell connectors run much hotter as they melt the shrink on the end of the MaxAmp packs. The tape around the connectors is high temperature stuff so no worry of a short.
Charge rates of up to 3C !!!! can be achieved if you use their 1010 C Charger. Now that would be nice. Send me one of those puppies and I will give it a good test.
I was averaging about 28 amp during practice this week. Traction is not quite as good as on race day.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 06-07-2007 at 10:16 AM.
05-10-2007, 08:21 PM
#1260
3C charging is definitely awesome. Just when you thought the round-cell guys couldn't get any more jealous... ;> However, the 1010C is limited to 10A charge rate.
140degF is too hot for the lipos I'm familiar with. I've seen lots of lipos swell up when they hit that temperature. Temperature rises steeply during the last 20% of the capacity, so the best thing to do to keep the temp down is to only discharge 80% of capacity.
What connectors are you using? They kind of look like a sawed-in-half Deans Ultra. 6mm bullet connectors are the ultimate for high-current applications (the 200+ A powered-glider guys use them).
-Adam
140degF is too hot for the lipos I'm familiar with. I've seen lots of lipos swell up when they hit that temperature. Temperature rises steeply during the last 20% of the capacity, so the best thing to do to keep the temp down is to only discharge 80% of capacity.
What connectors are you using? They kind of look like a sawed-in-half Deans Ultra. 6mm bullet connectors are the ultimate for high-current applications (the 200+ A powered-glider guys use them).
-Adam