3LikesSilver Can Motor Tips/Tricks
12-11-2007, 03:07 PM
#676
12-11-2007, 03:37 PM
#677
The single fastest silver can that I have used on track was a two slot Johnson that came in a Tamiya XB Rover kit believe it or not. I never dynoed it, but it was wicked. It was broken in over time from use, no special procedures. Several people questioned it at the time, but everyone who knows me reinfoced that I do not condone cheating or tampering silver cans.
The next fastest one that I have used on track was a 4-slot that came from the first TL-01 Calsonic Skyline kit(circa 1997). I received it used, but it was never broken in other than being run in the car.
The fastest silver can that I have ever "seen" on track(watched it blow past me several times), was a 4-slot. The owner swears it was legal & untampered, but it had to be tampered with... no way that thing was un-tweaked.
The next fastest one that I have used on track was a 4-slot that came from the first TL-01 Calsonic Skyline kit(circa 1997). I received it used, but it was never broken in other than being run in the car.
The fastest silver can that I have ever "seen" on track(watched it blow past me several times), was a 4-slot. The owner swears it was legal & untampered, but it had to be tampered with... no way that thing was un-tweaked.
12-11-2007, 06:31 PM
#678
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To the best of my knowledge, Tamiya has never published or utilized a list of acceptable silver can motor regs. I know that TCS Canada uses a formula for determining acceptable maximum performance, and the US Nats did the same thing for black cans: at 5 volts, no more than 2.4 amps and 19,000 RPM. There were lots of fast cars, but I do not believe that anyone was disqualified for exceeding those performance standards.
Even though there are genetic mutant silver cans out there that have all of the specs stacked in their favor, most of them will do 14,000 with good torque at 5 volts without much work. And there are all sorts of motor run-in jigs that people have put together that simulate actual motor use. In fact, the one on my test bench right now is in its 4th year of use, even though it was brandy new a few days ago...except that the conditions are much more conducive to long life than a dirty old race track.
And, just to be clear: I hopelessly overmotor, but I do not crank.
Even though there are genetic mutant silver cans out there that have all of the specs stacked in their favor, most of them will do 14,000 with good torque at 5 volts without much work. And there are all sorts of motor run-in jigs that people have put together that simulate actual motor use. In fact, the one on my test bench right now is in its 4th year of use, even though it was brandy new a few days ago...except that the conditions are much more conducive to long life than a dirty old race track.
And, just to be clear: I hopelessly overmotor, but I do not crank.
12-11-2007, 07:17 PM
#679
To the best of my knowledge, Tamiya has never published or utilized a list of acceptable silver can motor regs. I know that TCS Canada uses a formula for determining acceptable maximum performance, and the US Nats did the same thing for black cans: at 5 volts, no more than 2.4 amps and 19,000 RPM. There were lots of fast cars, but I do not believe that anyone was disqualified for exceeding those performance standards.
Even though there are genetic mutant silver cans out there that have all of the specs stacked in their favor, most of them will do 14,000 with good torque at 5 volts without much work. And there are all sorts of motor run-in jigs that people have put together that simulate actual motor use. In fact, the one on my test bench right now is in its 4th year of use, even though it was brandy new a few days ago...except that the conditions are much more conducive to long life than a dirty old race track.
And, just to be clear: I hopelessly overmotor, but I do not crank.
Even though there are genetic mutant silver cans out there that have all of the specs stacked in their favor, most of them will do 14,000 with good torque at 5 volts without much work. And there are all sorts of motor run-in jigs that people have put together that simulate actual motor use. In fact, the one on my test bench right now is in its 4th year of use, even though it was brandy new a few days ago...except that the conditions are much more conducive to long life than a dirty old race track.
And, just to be clear: I hopelessly overmotor, but I do not crank.
12-11-2007, 07:38 PM
#680
And for those of you who don't know how to advance timing ----Crank it, man. It sure as H doesn't seem to be illegal. I don't and won't, because the guys I race with don't. We race for fun, but 9 or 10 of us were in the A&B mains at Regionals at Aliso Viejo and 4or 5 at the Nationals. Let's have a level playing field again and take the "hot" motor crap out of the equation.
12-11-2007, 08:41 PM
#681
These are the Australian 540 rules - taken from the www.aarcmcc.org website:
4.5.0 540 Motors
4.5.1 Only an unopened Johnson 540 (silver end bell) motor is classed as Production Class.
4.5.2 No modifications are allowed. (Capacitors and Diodes may be used.)
4.5.3 Non-ferrous heats sinks are permitted.
4.5.4 The use of oil, cleaning fluids and motor sprays is permissible when applied before the race.
4.5.5 Performances enhancing motor accessories such as, torque rings, or on-board fluid systems, are not allowed
whether fitted directly to the motor or to the car.
4.5.6 A free running motor must not exceed 17.500 RPM on an AARCMCC approved dyno.
4.5.7 All tests to be carried out using a regulated 7.2v power supply capable of producing at least 5 amps,
continuously. RPM reading to be taken using a plastic disc approx. 60mm x 0.5 mm thick supported on a
separate ball-raced shaft and read with a digital optical tachometer.
4.5.8 At the Race Directors discretion, motors may be tested at the end of any heat. A maximum time of 15
minutes from the end of a heat will be allowed for a motor to cool. Motors must be allowed to cool
naturally. The use of wet rags, water, ice, sprays, any lubricants etc., is not permitted.
4.5.9 Any motor exceeding specifications will result in the loss of that's heats results.
4.5.10 Any motor exceeding specifications in the Finals will result in disqualification from all three finals in the
case of the A-final.
4.5.11 The use of Shellite or similar to run-in a motor is forbidden.
So, I guess provided the motor doesn't spin faster than 17,500rpm at 7.2v on their dyno you can crank it, etc...
I am yet to see a dyno be used at a race meet
4.5.0 540 Motors
4.5.1 Only an unopened Johnson 540 (silver end bell) motor is classed as Production Class.
4.5.2 No modifications are allowed. (Capacitors and Diodes may be used.)
4.5.3 Non-ferrous heats sinks are permitted.
4.5.4 The use of oil, cleaning fluids and motor sprays is permissible when applied before the race.
4.5.5 Performances enhancing motor accessories such as, torque rings, or on-board fluid systems, are not allowed
whether fitted directly to the motor or to the car.
4.5.6 A free running motor must not exceed 17.500 RPM on an AARCMCC approved dyno.
4.5.7 All tests to be carried out using a regulated 7.2v power supply capable of producing at least 5 amps,
continuously. RPM reading to be taken using a plastic disc approx. 60mm x 0.5 mm thick supported on a
separate ball-raced shaft and read with a digital optical tachometer.
4.5.8 At the Race Directors discretion, motors may be tested at the end of any heat. A maximum time of 15
minutes from the end of a heat will be allowed for a motor to cool. Motors must be allowed to cool
naturally. The use of wet rags, water, ice, sprays, any lubricants etc., is not permitted.
4.5.9 Any motor exceeding specifications will result in the loss of that's heats results.
4.5.10 Any motor exceeding specifications in the Finals will result in disqualification from all three finals in the
case of the A-final.
4.5.11 The use of Shellite or similar to run-in a motor is forbidden.
So, I guess provided the motor doesn't spin faster than 17,500rpm at 7.2v on their dyno you can crank it, etc...
I am yet to see a dyno be used at a race meet
12-11-2007, 08:44 PM
#682
Procedure for cleaning a comm is the following: Put some Brasso metal polish in a plastic squeeze bottle with a needle tip. Squeeze a small amount of brasso on the comm. I put a pinion on the motor and roll the pinion on a towel placed on my bench top. This is easier than rotating the motor by hand. Flush out he motor very thoroughly with motor spray, tho plain water works almost as well. Dry and oil and you are ready to go. Just spraying with motor spray helps some, but it's better to polish the comm.
By the way, that's a pretty decent Black can
By the way, that's a pretty decent Black can
Thanks for the tips,Will do it tonight.
I'm new to this silver can motor,just started 2 weeks ago.and my local have a race coming up for m-chassis class.
Do anyone got a formula to crank the motor?
Cheers
12-11-2007, 10:57 PM
#683
Forget about cranking, I was just having a bit of fun with the guys who do alter the timing of their motors. IMO a vast majority think that cranking or changing the timing on a motor is not kosher. Break the motor in, keep it clean, oil and go race it.
12-11-2007, 11:00 PM
#685
12-12-2007, 03:30 AM
#686
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True, kinda.......
12-12-2007, 09:44 AM
#687
Yes. The big problem when trying to tech these motors by performance mximum is that different dyno devices will often have different readouts. I know of at least one situation where a motor was initially thought to be out of spec, but further testing by Fred's "official" dyno proved it to be legal. I just calibrated mine against Fred's prior to the event so that I would know if there were any differences- we were almost exactly the same.
I am going to ask again------ changing the timing---- legal or not legal??????
I am asking you directly for your opinion. You must have one don't you?????
12-12-2007, 10:15 AM
#688
Your argument sounds good till you examine the facts. The performance standards were high enough that a "normal" black can would be comfortably below them. Frankly, no need to check a stock black can. There also was enough room for "motor tuners" to work their magic and push the envelope. I certainly feel that's kosher and a just reward for their efforts, as long as you are not altering the timing.
I am going to ask again------ changing the timing---- legal or not legal??????
I am asking you directly for your opinion. You must have one don't you?????
I am going to ask again------ changing the timing---- legal or not legal??????
I am asking you directly for your opinion. You must have one don't you?????
12-12-2007, 10:32 AM
#689
Ok, everyone has done there best to answer the question that you keep beating everyone over the head with...and the answer is...INTENTIONALLY altering the timing by cranking or opening the can is illegal. Altering the timing by "running in" the motor through either normal use or water break-in or whatever is fine...if indeed that does alter the timing. Is that straight forward enough without being to technical?
Thanx for your opinion. It only took several days and multiple posts to fiind some who was brave enough to reply. I salute you sir
12-12-2007, 10:49 AM
#690
Well, finally some one with an opinion. I've been beating you all over the head with it cause no one would answer what was asked. I am in total agreement with you, but apparantly we may be in the minority. However, let's get technical for the moment. I am opposed to any technique that alters the timing by changing orientation of the comm to the stack. You can do this without resorting to the technique commonly called "cranking". I'm assuming from your post you were not aware of this.
Thanx for your opinion. It only took several days and multiple posts to fiind some who was brave enough to reply. I salute you sir
Thanx for your opinion. It only took several days and multiple posts to fiind some who was brave enough to reply. I salute you sir