World GT Club Racing - To spec or not to spec is the question????
10-03-2008, 09:47 AM
#91
ok my take on things.
spec tires?? well first thing that comes to mind is it must be ONE company. there is now way that they all can make the same tire. which leads to if you do go to one single company you put alot of pressure on that company to produce the same tire time and time again. which leads to how do you tech it? because if you just use a colored rim what is to stop someone from mounting there own foam? ok so you use a duraometer reading. Great now tracks have to go out and buy an $90 piece of tech equipment. ok so you get your durometer readings from a new tire. i know that there are tire sauces out there that will lower that number by 5 points. So now what? the only true way to do it is to use a colored band.
IMO i thin having 1 compound tire will actually be more expensive. especally once the class grows and people figure out that a 2.11 tire size is the fast set up.
I look at this class as nothing more than another pan car. 12th has open tire and 90% of the guys all run the same compounds. so why would this be any different.
I know what you guys are thinking but these foam tires are nothing like rubber tires when it comes to consistancy from batch to batch.
I can see it now, the racer in the hobby shop with a durometer snatching up all the softer rears. lol
I think the biggest thing you should worry about is the bodies. some rules need to be set so that these companies don't to far out of the box.
here is what I suggest to help build a good class structure.
run the world gt class 17.5 4 cell corvettes vipers style bodies
next class would be the DP (daytona prototype) 13.5 4 cell that is a car style like that new protoform Mulsanne LMP etc
last class would be the ALMS open mod 4cell this would be the open cockpit style cars.
just my 2 cents.
spec tires?? well first thing that comes to mind is it must be ONE company. there is now way that they all can make the same tire. which leads to if you do go to one single company you put alot of pressure on that company to produce the same tire time and time again. which leads to how do you tech it? because if you just use a colored rim what is to stop someone from mounting there own foam? ok so you use a duraometer reading. Great now tracks have to go out and buy an $90 piece of tech equipment. ok so you get your durometer readings from a new tire. i know that there are tire sauces out there that will lower that number by 5 points. So now what? the only true way to do it is to use a colored band.
IMO i thin having 1 compound tire will actually be more expensive. especally once the class grows and people figure out that a 2.11 tire size is the fast set up.
I look at this class as nothing more than another pan car. 12th has open tire and 90% of the guys all run the same compounds. so why would this be any different.
I know what you guys are thinking but these foam tires are nothing like rubber tires when it comes to consistancy from batch to batch.
I can see it now, the racer in the hobby shop with a durometer snatching up all the softer rears. lol
I think the biggest thing you should worry about is the bodies. some rules need to be set so that these companies don't to far out of the box.
here is what I suggest to help build a good class structure.
run the world gt class 17.5 4 cell corvettes vipers style bodies
next class would be the DP (daytona prototype) 13.5 4 cell that is a car style like that new protoform Mulsanne LMP etc
last class would be the ALMS open mod 4cell this would be the open cockpit style cars.
just my 2 cents.
Last edited by davepull; 10-03-2008 at 12:15 PM.
10-03-2008, 02:08 PM
#92
WoW! 4 Pages and counting!!!
After watching this for a while, this is what our club has come to a conclusion:
Spec tire a must!!! Why? It is not necessarily about having a whole bunch of compounds to choose from, it is more of a tire wear and cost factor. Lilac's chunk less, wear down slower, and can be run for quite some time. Double pinks or magenta's on the car would be crazy and the car could be on rails even more than they are now, but we then get into faster tire wear, the don't last as long, and are easier to chunk.
Motor: We settled on 17.5's. Why? It slows down the car. I for one wanted 13.5, but people wanted to slow the car down and with a slower car, a newbie would be able to handle the speeds, and it then comes down to setup and driving. If we eventually get enough people, we will then break out to 17.5/13.5, but for now we are all going to run 17.5's.
Batteries - 4-cell NIMH, 4600 mah max. Hopefully we will have some single cell Lipo options soon, so b-bye NIMH!!!
Bodies - We are gonna loosely enforce a 104mm minimum height. Alot of us have already SLAMMED our Vette's, so we will be all gravitating towards the 104mm min height limit.
Bottom line - We are telling to bring whatever they have to run. if they want to run lipo - COME ON!!! We all realize this will take a bit to work out all the kinks, set the rules in place, and have a standard to go by. But until then, we just want people to run. if people want to buy some JACO's, grind the tire off, go through the trouble of throwing some donuts on the tires, and then truing them down....then (A) They have WAY too much time on their hands (B) Cheaters SUCK (C) I really don't care.
I know at our local track we all have a pretty darn good gentleman rule's we follow and I am not worried about people changing tires, etc. I just want to see this class do well.
I believe that this class will help keep 1/10 cars going here locally. This class is perfect for people that don't want a twitchy 1/12 and want to speed and size of 1/10 car, AND don't have time to set up their cars accordingly.
McGoo's 2 cents.....
After watching this for a while, this is what our club has come to a conclusion:
Spec tire a must!!! Why? It is not necessarily about having a whole bunch of compounds to choose from, it is more of a tire wear and cost factor. Lilac's chunk less, wear down slower, and can be run for quite some time. Double pinks or magenta's on the car would be crazy and the car could be on rails even more than they are now, but we then get into faster tire wear, the don't last as long, and are easier to chunk.
Motor: We settled on 17.5's. Why? It slows down the car. I for one wanted 13.5, but people wanted to slow the car down and with a slower car, a newbie would be able to handle the speeds, and it then comes down to setup and driving. If we eventually get enough people, we will then break out to 17.5/13.5, but for now we are all going to run 17.5's.
Batteries - 4-cell NIMH, 4600 mah max. Hopefully we will have some single cell Lipo options soon, so b-bye NIMH!!!
Bodies - We are gonna loosely enforce a 104mm minimum height. Alot of us have already SLAMMED our Vette's, so we will be all gravitating towards the 104mm min height limit.
Bottom line - We are telling to bring whatever they have to run. if they want to run lipo - COME ON!!! We all realize this will take a bit to work out all the kinks, set the rules in place, and have a standard to go by. But until then, we just want people to run. if people want to buy some JACO's, grind the tire off, go through the trouble of throwing some donuts on the tires, and then truing them down....then (A) They have WAY too much time on their hands (B) Cheaters SUCK (C) I really don't care.
I know at our local track we all have a pretty darn good gentleman rule's we follow and I am not worried about people changing tires, etc. I just want to see this class do well.
I believe that this class will help keep 1/10 cars going here locally. This class is perfect for people that don't want a twitchy 1/12 and want to speed and size of 1/10 car, AND don't have time to set up their cars accordingly.
McGoo's 2 cents.....
10-04-2008, 02:54 AM
#93
Tech Fanatic
Worth a lot more than 2c, McGoo - good points that I will shamelessly steal for our GT10 'Stock' class in the UK. Thanks.
10-04-2008, 08:58 AM
#94
my issue with a spec tyre is that once/if the class gets really competive you're going to get racers truing the crap out of the tyres just to get that little but of an edge and we're down to one run tyres which is not going to make the class cheaper.
The only way I can see it working is if there is a class director who marks each wheel at the beginning of a series. Once the tyres are worn down enough/broken, it's up to the racer to get approval from the class director to replace them. From personal experience with other pan cars tyres (Grey front/green rear), I know I can get an 8 race series out of a set in 4 cell/stock motor racing. The lilacs should wear better than those tyres so one set per series should be enough for most racers.
The only way I can see it working is if there is a class director who marks each wheel at the beginning of a series. Once the tyres are worn down enough/broken, it's up to the racer to get approval from the class director to replace them. From personal experience with other pan cars tyres (Grey front/green rear), I know I can get an 8 race series out of a set in 4 cell/stock motor racing. The lilacs should wear better than those tyres so one set per series should be enough for most racers.
10-04-2008, 11:54 AM
#97
if that's true then that's great. Hopefully it will keep the class fun, exciting and cost effective.
10-04-2008, 06:01 PM
#98
Perhaps you missed the point that the tires at IIC wore like iron. I bought 2 sets of tires expecting that I would want at least a new set for racing and one set to burn up during practice. I have club raced this car since vegas and am still on the same set. My other set is still in zip lock baggies.
10-04-2008, 06:25 PM
#99
Tech Fanatic
I look forward to trying the Jace Lilacs. I used the BSR purple and XXPurple fronts this summer on asphalt.....liked the purples the best. I used the Pink BSR's for the rear and noticed some skipping in the sweeper...maybe a harder tire will help.
The like the option of changing to learn and maybe improve. I would be less likely to stay with this if it turns into a "Spec" class. I hear it is working offroad with Slashes.....but I wouldn't care for it in onroad....
The Rules set up by the IIC and Cleveland are a good start. Local clubs should always have the final say (they need to keep their racers interested and involved).....I've seen alot of solid ideas in this forum....Hope it continues.
The like the option of changing to learn and maybe improve. I would be less likely to stay with this if it turns into a "Spec" class. I hear it is working offroad with Slashes.....but I wouldn't care for it in onroad....
The Rules set up by the IIC and Cleveland are a good start. Local clubs should always have the final say (they need to keep their racers interested and involved).....I've seen alot of solid ideas in this forum....Hope it continues.
10-04-2008, 06:35 PM
#100
:tweetles thumbs: paved nationals are in our backyard and i'd entertain a class like this. but it helps to know what it is. pan really needs to come to a concensus and soon if they wanna bring it back. no more of this spec tire or not, which BL level, GT or prototypes, lipos, 200v235.
: pray for this stuff and F1 :
R
: pray for this stuff and F1 :
R
10-04-2008, 08:53 PM
#101
Boy is this interesting reading. Lets see they ran them in Vegas on Carpet and they ran on one set. I've done the same before on carpet.I've trued them down to nothing and now I hardly true them.Tires - since 99% of the people out there have not ever run 1/10th pan cars it's not like running a Touring car on Rubber. The foam tires do last longer. But I'm beating a dead horse.Open tires- if someone wants to make spec tires use them at a nationals or big race. A local club has always had the choice to modify ROAR rules for their club races!A series can also modify the rules.Me I'm running whatever tires I feel like(Blues and greens and Purples and Pinks).Just a note when you run on asphalt sometimes you get lucky where you run and the tire wear is better than others.
10-07-2008, 04:26 PM
#102
well I know that in the NE series that is kicking off there are three tiremakers jumping into the tire fray so not only wll people have options, they still get the benefit of the great tire wear and the cost effectiveness.
Last edited by trackdesigner71; 10-07-2008 at 04:37 PM.
10-07-2008, 09:38 PM
#103
World GT Rules.....
Newbie (again) here. I'm really diggin the new class, they are trying to adapt to this at a facility here, and I'm hooked. It will be my first time running road course on carpet, and I'm totally psyched! It was bad ass to see how the chassis technology has come so far now that there are more options than t-plate cars and touring sedans.
I remember when I was running carpet oval back in the late 90's. Wow, talk about something that ate up tires! Go fast, turn left. Turn left, cone tires. Coned tires? Get out the truing machine to square them off again. There went half your "investment!!" Good thing we still had stock brushed motors... Where guys would get race "handouts" and then go cut the commutator to make it faster... TGFB, thank God for brushless!
Regarding spec tires or not... I'm just thankful to have the opportunity to run a fast (brushless 13.5), light (4-cell), technologically advanced (imo, CRC X10) car on a more realistic track (carpet road course) instead of a twitchy t-plate car on a flat, tire eating 100' carpet oval. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade that racing experience for anything back in the day, but times are changing!
Personally, you have choices for cars, batteries, motors, tires, bodies.... But the best way to run what ya brung.... Road course!!!! Unless you're talking about dirt oval... Thats a whole other topic...
I remember when I was running carpet oval back in the late 90's. Wow, talk about something that ate up tires! Go fast, turn left. Turn left, cone tires. Coned tires? Get out the truing machine to square them off again. There went half your "investment!!" Good thing we still had stock brushed motors... Where guys would get race "handouts" and then go cut the commutator to make it faster... TGFB, thank God for brushless!
Regarding spec tires or not... I'm just thankful to have the opportunity to run a fast (brushless 13.5), light (4-cell), technologically advanced (imo, CRC X10) car on a more realistic track (carpet road course) instead of a twitchy t-plate car on a flat, tire eating 100' carpet oval. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade that racing experience for anything back in the day, but times are changing!
Personally, you have choices for cars, batteries, motors, tires, bodies.... But the best way to run what ya brung.... Road course!!!! Unless you're talking about dirt oval... Thats a whole other topic...
10-13-2008, 08:12 PM
#105
I'll bite!
13.5 with 4-cell NiHM runs along 17.5 with lipo (Stock GT)...AND...10.5 with 4-cell NiHM running along 13.5 with lipo (Super GT). No spec tire because one spec tire will not work on all surfaces. Tire specs are good for a racing program or series that knows what surfaces they will be running on.
And my CRC X-10 car is yet to hit the track yet...
Bill
13.5 with 4-cell NiHM runs along 17.5 with lipo (Stock GT)...AND...10.5 with 4-cell NiHM running along 13.5 with lipo (Super GT). No spec tire because one spec tire will not work on all surfaces. Tire specs are good for a racing program or series that knows what surfaces they will be running on.
And my CRC X-10 car is yet to hit the track yet...
Bill