128LikesXray T4'17
07-20-2017, 02:09 AM - Wikipost
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Welcome to the XRAY T4'17 Thread & Wikipost! Here you will find some useful info, tips and tricks as well as setups that are used by several team drivers. This wikipost is a work in progress and should continue to develop over time. Feel free to add anything you feel is useful to the community!
New for 2017: The T4'17 comes available with either a Graphite chassis, or Aluminum Flex chassis. We recommend the Graphite chassis for starting on asphalt, and the Aluminum Flex for starting on carpet. The 2017 also comes standard with the floating swing rack as an option, and the Composite Graphite arms included. Most of the team prefers the Graphite arms for both asphalt and carpet, though sometimes Hard arms may be ideal for asphalt depending on the conditions. This year's car also comes with the new "In-line Flex Adjustment" which provides many more flex adjustments than in the past allowing you to focus & fine-tune on forward/back flex and side-to-side flex both together & independently. Additionally, the Ackermann has been moved back by 1mm and the spacing of the RF blocks is wider, creating 0.5° less rear toe from previous T4 models. What's NEW at T4 2017? Convert your '16 to '17 specs with these parts: - NEW chassis plate (3 options to chose from below) - NEW Motor holder - NEW Motor holder plate - NEW center shaft holder - NEW Floating Servo Mount 301142 T4'17 CHASSIS 2.2MM GRAPHITE 301143 T4'17 ALU CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6 301144 T4'17 ALU FLEX CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6 302536 ALU STEERING POST FOR FLOATING SERVO SAVER (2) 303066-O T4'17 ALU LAYSHAFT BULKHEAD CLOSED L/R - ORANGE 303067-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT - ORANGE 303068-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - ORANGE 306204-O T4'17 ALU SERVO MOUNT - ORANGE 306233 T4'17 GRAPHITE FLOATING SERVO HOLDER 3.0MM 306530 T4'17 GRAPHITE CHASSIS STIFFENER 3.0MM Tips & Tricks: Alex Hagberg's Tech Tip Tuesday articles How to mount your Protoform LTC-R Body Setting static camber How to mount weight on your chassis Part1 How to mount the rear wing on Protoform bodies Simple troubleshooting guide How to mount the battery on your chassis How to glue your front tires for CRC Black carpet with Eric Anderson Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing Exponential and RMode How to mount weight on your chassis Part2 Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing TH-Hold Team driver Tim Wahl posted some very useful build tips for the T4'16 on Facebook as he worked through building a new kit. These tips will still apply on the current model. 1- Carbon Parts 2-Suspension 3-Solid Axle and Differential 4-Bulkheads & Drivetrain 5-Driveshaft (ECS & CVD) 6-Front & Rear Suspension 7-Tweak 8-Anti-Roll Bar 9-Battery Fix (OPTIONAL) 10-Bumper & Body 11-Shocks 12-Steering Center Brace: The manual indicates using a 2mm shim under the center brace when attaching to the chassis plate. The gap is actually 3mm, so a 3mm shim should be used here. Tuning Note: On Carpet we have found that adding screws or doubling up the graphite brace will make the car react quicker to steering input, & change direction faster. Raising the graphite brace off of the aluminum bulkheads by placing a shim under it on the front and rear holes will reduce response. Using the tie-rod will reduce initial response to input, but will generate more in-corner traction or 'side-bite'. Using no brace will generate even more of this 'side-bite' but all of this is at the expense of corner speed. Best to use the tie-rod or no brace only in low-traction conditions. Additionally, the center brace increases forward traction, so removing it will potentially increase wheel-spin out of low speed corners. New Graphite Hubs: Xray have recently released some additional Graphite hubs for the T4 lineup. The 4° Graphite C-Hub has been out for some time and is known to improve steering on entry, and in general makes the car turn better. This has been the go-to c-hub on asphalt for many on the Xray team, though it is not needed on high bite carpet. The Graphite rear hub tends to make the car more stable, especially on corner entry. We are still working on gathering input on the new Graphite steering block, but for the moment feel that it should improve steering response. All Graphite parts are approximately 1g lighter than the Hard or Medium options. ARS Tuning courtesy of Ed (TryHard): If you set the ARS up with no shims under either inside or outside ball positions, it actually adds toe-in under compression, at around 1° at 5.2mm ride height (how much it adds depends how much the car compresses, obviously  )Adding shims reduces the amount added (1mm under one of the links gives about 0.5°), until the link has 2mm worth of shims (1mm either side, or 2mm on one side) makes the ARS neutral. Adding more shims then turns it into reducing toe in under compression. Whilst that might sound a bit backwards, it's actually not quite as simple as it sounds. By having the links to add toe, you gain forward traction. Also consider as the car rolls, the inside wheel is in negative compression, and the outside in compression. So the inside is toe-ing out, and the outside toe-ing in, so the whole rear is then 'steering' in the direction of the turn. Obviously the inside wheel has a lot less influence than the outside as it's far less loaded, but the effect is still there. Optional & Tuning Parts to consider: XRA301196 T4 Graphite Upper Deck 1.6mm V2 XRA302254 Composite Steering Block - Graphite XRA302334 Aluminum C-Hub Block - Caster 0° - Orange *Only for ARS* XRA302383 Composite C-Hub Right – 4° - Graphite (ECS) XRA302384 Composite C-Hub Left – 4° - Graphite (ECS) XRA302711 Brass Front Lower 1-Piece Suspension Holder - Front - FF XRA302803 1.3mm Front Anti-Roll Bar XRA303360 Composite Upright 0° Outboard Toe-In - Graphite XRA303802 1.2mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar XRA305137 Steel Solid Axle Driveshaft Adapters - HUDY Spring Steel *Highly recommend* XRA305242 Composite Drive Shaft Replacement Cap 3.5mm – Orange – Strong (QTY 4) XRA305351 Aluminum Wheel Hub – Offset “-0.75mm” – Black (QTY 2) XRA305352 Aluminum Wheel Hub - Offset “+0.75mm” - Black (QTY 2) XRA306191 T4 Graphite + Aluminum Fully Adjustable Battery Holder XRA308264 4S Spring-Set Progressive C=2.5-2.8 (QTY 2) XRA308276 4S Spring-Set C=2.7 (QTY 2) XRA308286 4S Spring-Set C=2.6 (QTY 2) XRA308039 Aluminum Progressive Shock System – Set (QTY 2) *Only for asphalt* Recent Setups: Bruno Coelho - IIC 2016 - High Bite Carpet - Modified Alex Hagberg - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified Jan Ratheisky - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - 13.5 Chris Adams - Halloween Classic - High Bite Carpet - Modified Chris Adams - ROAR Region 9 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified Craig Xavier - US Indoor Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 Bruno Coelho - ETS Rd1 Hrotovice - Med Bite Carpet - Modified Craig Xavier - Stock Wars - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 Jan Ratheisky - DHI Cup - Med Bite Carpet - 13.5 Chris Adams - Texas EOS Rd 1 - High Bite Carpet - Modified Alex Hagberg - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified Robbie Dodge - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 Jan Ratheisky - TITC - High Bite Asphalt - 13.5 Drew Ellis - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified Eric Anderson - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - Modified Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - 17.5 Dan Hamann - MN State Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 
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09-12-2017, 04:09 AM
#1546
09-13-2017, 06:42 AM
#1547
Tech Apprentice
Hello
Please, I need some suggestions, I can't get enough on power steering in my T4.
I'm running a standard setup, with lower front roll center (-1mm), shorter front width (-4mm) and shorter wheelbase. The model has enough rear grip but not so much but front grip is too little in my opinion. I don't understand if front roll center is too low and if I'm moving in the right way, maybe do I need higher roll center? I don't think, but the model seems to not hear any front setup modifications. I change springs, drop, roll center and I don't see appreciable differences in the front of the car on the contrary the rear becomes every time less stable. What can me suggest to get more on power saving good rear stability?
Please, I need some suggestions, I can't get enough on power steering in my T4.
I'm running a standard setup, with lower front roll center (-1mm), shorter front width (-4mm) and shorter wheelbase. The model has enough rear grip but not so much but front grip is too little in my opinion. I don't understand if front roll center is too low and if I'm moving in the right way, maybe do I need higher roll center? I don't think, but the model seems to not hear any front setup modifications. I change springs, drop, roll center and I don't see appreciable differences in the front of the car on the contrary the rear becomes every time less stable. What can me suggest to get more on power saving good rear stability?
09-13-2017, 06:54 AM
#1548
Hello
Please, I need some suggestions, I can't get enough on power steering in my T4.
I'm running a standard setup, with lower front roll center (-1mm), shorter front width (-4mm) and shorter wheelbase. The model has enough rear grip but not so much but front grip is too little in my opinion. I don't understand if front roll center is too low and if I'm moving in the right way, maybe do I need higher roll center? I don't think, but the model seems to not hear any front setup modifications. I change springs, drop, roll center and I don't see appreciable differences in the front of the car on the contrary the rear becomes every time less stable. What can me suggest to get more on power saving good rear stability?
Please, I need some suggestions, I can't get enough on power steering in my T4.
I'm running a standard setup, with lower front roll center (-1mm), shorter front width (-4mm) and shorter wheelbase. The model has enough rear grip but not so much but front grip is too little in my opinion. I don't understand if front roll center is too low and if I'm moving in the right way, maybe do I need higher roll center? I don't think, but the model seems to not hear any front setup modifications. I change springs, drop, roll center and I don't see appreciable differences in the front of the car on the contrary the rear becomes every time less stable. What can me suggest to get more on power saving good rear stability?
09-13-2017, 07:56 AM
#1549
Hello
Please, I need some suggestions, I can't get enough on power steering in my T4.
I'm running a standard setup, with lower front roll center (-1mm), shorter front width (-4mm) and shorter wheelbase. The model has enough rear grip but not so much but front grip is too little in my opinion. I don't understand if front roll center is too low and if I'm moving in the right way, maybe do I need higher roll center? I don't think, but the model seems to not hear any front setup modifications. I change springs, drop, roll center and I don't see appreciable differences in the front of the car on the contrary the rear becomes every time less stable. What can me suggest to get more on power saving good rear stability?
Please, I need some suggestions, I can't get enough on power steering in my T4.
I'm running a standard setup, with lower front roll center (-1mm), shorter front width (-4mm) and shorter wheelbase. The model has enough rear grip but not so much but front grip is too little in my opinion. I don't understand if front roll center is too low and if I'm moving in the right way, maybe do I need higher roll center? I don't think, but the model seems to not hear any front setup modifications. I change springs, drop, roll center and I don't see appreciable differences in the front of the car on the contrary the rear becomes every time less stable. What can me suggest to get more on power saving good rear stability?
09-13-2017, 12:00 PM
#1550
Tech Apprentice
I run in modified class, large and fast asphalt track, medium to hight grip, fast corners at almost full throttle. LTC-R body, tried also a bitty M410 but I didn't like it so much. In this conditions I will try to reduce front roll center, but I don't know if is the way to go.
The T4's tendency is to understeer, this looks to be being rectified with the 2018 release which is out anytime now. There are of course things you can do like different shells etc... but I find the rear becomes very loose when trying to achieve more front end, especially on power like you say
I have to do something. Like I said, my setup is standard, with some modifications already writed.
Thanks in advance
09-13-2017, 01:00 PM
#1551
I would leave your front suspension pin adjustments alone (how you have them now should be good). Run Progressive Hard Springs front/back and 450CST Oils. Increase your rear toe to 3.5mm, 1mm more droop in the front than rear. Also your inline flex adjustment is big for asphalt (I would play with your inline flex adjustment)
09-13-2017, 07:35 PM
#1552
You are right, I forgot to do it.
I run in modified class, large and fast asphalt track, medium to hight grip, fast corners at almost full throttle. LTC-R body, tried also a bitty M410 but I didn't like it so much. In this conditions I will try to reduce front roll center, but I don't know if is the way to go.
Yes, this was my first impression, when I load the front the rear becomes loose espacially on power and with old tyres this can let to uncontrollable spin, so you have to drive carefully.
I have to do something. Like I said, my setup is standard, with some modifications already writed.
Thanks in advance
I run in modified class, large and fast asphalt track, medium to hight grip, fast corners at almost full throttle. LTC-R body, tried also a bitty M410 but I didn't like it so much. In this conditions I will try to reduce front roll center, but I don't know if is the way to go.
Yes, this was my first impression, when I load the front the rear becomes loose espacially on power and with old tyres this can let to uncontrollable spin, so you have to drive carefully.
I have to do something. Like I said, my setup is standard, with some modifications already writed.
Thanks in advance
09-13-2017, 10:37 PM
#1553
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
You are right, I forgot to do it.
I run in modified class, large and fast asphalt track, medium to hight grip, fast corners at almost full throttle. LTC-R body, tried also a bitty M410 but I didn't like it so much. In this conditions I will try to reduce front roll center, but I don't know if is the way to go.
I run in modified class, large and fast asphalt track, medium to hight grip, fast corners at almost full throttle. LTC-R body, tried also a bitty M410 but I didn't like it so much. In this conditions I will try to reduce front roll center, but I don't know if is the way to go.
Would be interested to know what tire combination you're using and the tyre prep involved. I find when I'm using old tires my cars have that tendency to become loose on-power.
09-14-2017, 02:25 AM
#1554
Tech Apprentice
I use italian tyres, Sp racing 36, with wd40 as additive. Setup sheet is coming.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkwmy23kw7...table.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkwmy23kw7...table.pdf?dl=0
Last edited by maRRRco; 09-14-2017 at 02:43 AM.
09-14-2017, 03:03 AM
#1555
I use italian tyres, Sp racing 36, with wd40 as additive. Setup sheet is coming.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkwmy23kw7...table.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkwmy23kw7...table.pdf?dl=0
Firstly, your droop settings.. 4.6 F and 6.0R is basically back to front. Usual is 5-5.2 on the front, 4-4.2 on the rear (dependent on tire size).
Secondly your rear spring is too soft IMO. I would try a 2.6 or 2.7 to start with. Also consider a progressive 2.5-2.8 front, as that spring combo is the general go to nowadays. On the towers, front to hole 2 (1 up from bottom), rear to hole 3 (1 down from top).
Also i actually think you front pins are too narrow, which isnt going to help. For modified, the base starting point is FF 1.0 down and out, and FR 0.5 down and out. Will make the front more stable on entry, as well as give some sweep to help mid corner.
Also strongly suggest setting the hexs the same as well. And reset the wheelbase to 1mm either side of the arms. Diff may also want to go up to 5k minimum as that will also help on power.
I think the big difference in front and rear width is whats causing a large majority of the issue, along with the droop
Try those settings and see how you go.
09-14-2017, 05:03 AM
#1556
I use italian tyres, Sp racing 36, with wd40 as additive. Setup sheet is coming.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkwmy23kw7...table.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkwmy23kw7...table.pdf?dl=0
Last edited by Bar; 09-14-2017 at 05:23 AM.
09-14-2017, 06:00 AM
#1557
I use italian tyres, Sp racing 36, with wd40 as additive. Setup sheet is coming.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkwmy23kw7...table.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkwmy23kw7...table.pdf?dl=0
Try this setup from Halifax in the UK. Big outdoor track, lots of steering needed without compromising stability:
XRAY ::: Set-up Sheet - T4'17
A few key points:
- Definitely change to 1.1 pistons. No one runs 1.2 ever.
- Get some proper tyre additive, whatever the fast guys at your track are using.
- If you still have on-power understeer on Ollys setup, you can reduce the rear toe, or try a progressive front spring. Or go to 7k diff.
09-14-2017, 07:46 AM
#1558
Tech Apprentice
Sorry, just my misunderstanding, front and rear drop are exchanged. Now I'm reading all your suggestions.
p.s ok, I've read, but I don't know why you suggest a wider front width, 0.5 or 1.0 at the moment doesn't matter, why wider?
A narrower front will give more steering and more reactivity, in all corners parts, so I moved into that direction.
I'll follow other suggestions but please help me to understand why a wider front. Thank you so much.
p.s ok, I've read, but I don't know why you suggest a wider front width, 0.5 or 1.0 at the moment doesn't matter, why wider?
A narrower front will give more steering and more reactivity, in all corners parts, so I moved into that direction.
I'll follow other suggestions but please help me to understand why a wider front. Thank you so much.
Last edited by maRRRco; 09-14-2017 at 08:05 AM.
09-14-2017, 11:04 AM
#1559
Sorry, just my misunderstanding, front and rear drop are exchanged. Now I'm reading all your suggestions.
p.s ok, I've read, but I don't know why you suggest a wider front width, 0.5 or 1.0 at the moment doesn't matter, why wider?
A narrower front will give more steering and more reactivity, in all corners parts, so I moved into that direction.
I'll follow other suggestions but please help me to understand why a wider front. Thank you so much.
p.s ok, I've read, but I don't know why you suggest a wider front width, 0.5 or 1.0 at the moment doesn't matter, why wider?
A narrower front will give more steering and more reactivity, in all corners parts, so I moved into that direction.
I'll follow other suggestions but please help me to understand why a wider front. Thank you so much.
09-14-2017, 01:28 PM
#1560
Tech Apprentice
Ok, by changing the inserts you change also shocks inclinations, for this reason I'm using the first hole from the bottom in the front tower instead of the second hole, to compensate the new inclination.
I don't know other differences and again I don't understand why a wider front should give me more steering, maybe changing inserts would help and thinner exes shouln't?