View Poll Results: what's your tire choice?
Protoform
46
30.67%
HPI
104
69.33%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll
4318LikesU.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing Part 2
04-16-2012, 04:56 PM
#511
If you see this guy (pic below), please feel free to throw a dart at him. 
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hey Nash, it wasnt anything with just blowing it...after 15+ mins, the rear traction was gone...I was fighting it and was barely able to keep from just pulling it off and taking a "pitstop" and having someone sauce my rear tires...Ive done it before, lol
04-16-2012, 04:58 PM
#512
Ok here is why's on a few things:
C rating and mah: Really doesn't matter. When you pull around 1000 - 1200 mah on a typical (not 20 minute
) run, the average amps are 10-12 A over the run. So the lowest C rated batteries are able to handle the load. You are also going to be in the fat part of the voltage curve as well. Will a better quality battery with a lower IR, regardless of C rating be better? Yes. Because IR matters 1000x what the C rating does, especially since there is no real standard for C.
5000 mah rule: As all the posts indicate to me, if the rule was rescinded, a large number of racers would buy 6500 60c packs because they are "better". Not everything in the class is limited, but a lot of things are. The rule was changed so that guys can run the Zippy packs and Turnigy packs that are cheap and the offroad guys love so much. I realize that the battery you already own is cheaper, but is it cheaper for all the racers who own sub 5000 packs to upgrade?
USGT rules: USGT is the "next step" on the ladder. It's a little faster, the blinky ESCs are allowed, the motor make is not limited, --it's a little more of everything than VTA. So there is no mah limit.
EA: Seems to me there are guys looking for 5000 packs...just sayin'
C rating and mah: Really doesn't matter. When you pull around 1000 - 1200 mah on a typical (not 20 minute
) run, the average amps are 10-12 A over the run. So the lowest C rated batteries are able to handle the load. You are also going to be in the fat part of the voltage curve as well. Will a better quality battery with a lower IR, regardless of C rating be better? Yes. Because IR matters 1000x what the C rating does, especially since there is no real standard for C. 5000 mah rule: As all the posts indicate to me, if the rule was rescinded, a large number of racers would buy 6500 60c packs because they are "better". Not everything in the class is limited, but a lot of things are. The rule was changed so that guys can run the Zippy packs and Turnigy packs that are cheap and the offroad guys love so much. I realize that the battery you already own is cheaper, but is it cheaper for all the racers who own sub 5000 packs to upgrade?
USGT rules: USGT is the "next step" on the ladder. It's a little faster, the blinky ESCs are allowed, the motor make is not limited, --it's a little more of everything than VTA. So there is no mah limit.
EA: Seems to me there are guys looking for 5000 packs...just sayin'
Thanks for the reply. You are exactly right about C rating not mattering as much as a battery with good voltage and IR. But from what Ive found a battery with a high C rating (From reliable companies) have better voltage and IR. I am not sure if its because they really are higher C rating or they just use a higher quality cell and claim higher C rating. Either way most lipo's are simi to grossly over rated on C rating.
EA
04-16-2012, 05:00 PM
#514
Rob,
Thanks for the reply. You are exactly right about C rating not mattering as much as a battery with good voltage and IR. But from what Ive found a battery with a high C rating (From reliable companies) have better voltage and IR. I am not sure if its because they really are higher C rating or they just use a higher quality cell and claim higher C rating. Either way most lipo's are simi to grossly over rated on C rating.
EA
Thanks for the reply. You are exactly right about C rating not mattering as much as a battery with good voltage and IR. But from what Ive found a battery with a high C rating (From reliable companies) have better voltage and IR. I am not sure if its because they really are higher C rating or they just use a higher quality cell and claim higher C rating. Either way most lipo's are simi to grossly over rated on C rating.
EA
04-16-2012, 05:03 PM
#515
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
The motors are so 'underpowered' that just about any C rating pack will provide plenty of power on demand. The discharge curve (as previously mentioned) is why there's a limit on pack capacity. In a long enough heat, a higher capacity pack won't drop-off in performance as much. One won't affect the outcome of a heat, the other could.
Last weekend the scale nationals were held and they ran a very unusual format with a 15 min B main and a 20 min A main. Were the lap times droping off towards the end for those running 5000 or so mah packs? I don't know if they were. If they weren't, then that would be evidence that you would get no performance advantage with extra mah capacity. If there was a drop off in the lap times of the 20 or 15 min mains, then that would be evidence that in a 20 or 15 min race, towards the end, extra capacity would be a performance edge, but remember, you would have to carry the extra weight through all the earlier laps to reap the benefit at the end. Last weekend at The Track at Harbor Hobbies was a rare race, but by looking at those results, maybe we can discern when, or if ever, mah capacity becomes a factor.
The USVTA standard is 8 min mains, and with a 25.5 motor, is mah capacity ever an advantage?
04-16-2012, 05:17 PM
#516
I have no idea if my lipo was at a disadvantage...my rear traction went away in the last laps...but if you watch the video, my car still looked strong on the straight...as did alot of the cars...except Robs...Im picking again bro...just happy...loved that race...
Hey Solara, post the video
Hey Solara, post the video
04-16-2012, 05:33 PM
#517
I have no idea if my lipo was at a disadvantage...my rear traction went away in the last laps...but if you watch the video, my car still looked strong on the straight...as did alot of the cars...except Robs...Im picking again bro...just happy...loved that race...
Hey Solara, post the video
Hey Solara, post the video
04-16-2012, 06:29 PM
#519
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
I am probably treading on thin ice here, but here goes:
"As all the posts indicate"... "all" the posts ?? Interesting (and unsupportable) take on the above discussion.
I never advocated 60c and many others never advocated high C packs. I advocated being able to use the offroad packs I already have. Higher mah packs give you more practice time per pack, so they are convenient for me and others in offroad. Lots of us have them in my area and this is one of the reasons all the tracks in my state ignore this rule.
Who is saying that 6500 60c packs are "better" in VTA? In the pits at trackside, I consistently hear that mah and C rating aren't important in VTA. Maybe a newbie in the very beginning thinks this, but they are always advised that VTA is different and there is no need. Aren't you just speculating that many will go out and spend money on an "upgrade" even though people tell them that it doesn't exist? I think the average racer has more common sense than that and this is an unjustified fear.
I hope I am not crucified for this post. I am just trying to understand. I wasn't going to start this whole bruhaha up again, but I though that lately there was some flexibility on things, (like escs and spoilers and wasn't the requirement for Roar approval for LiPos just dropped?), and that this might be a successful time to bring it up. I guess it wasn't.
04-16-2012, 06:31 PM
#520
I am probably treading on thin ice here, but here goes:
"As all the posts indicate"... "all" the posts ?? Interesting (and unsupportable) take on the above discussion.
I never advocated 60c and many others never advocated high C packs. I advocated being able to use the offroad packs I already have. Higher mah packs give you more practice time per pack, so they are convenient for me and others in offroad. Lots of us have them in my area and this is one of the reasons all the tracks in my state ignore this rule.
Who is saying that 6500 60c packs are "better" in VTA? In the pits at trackside, I consistently hear that mah and C rating aren't important in VTA. Maybe a newbie in the very beginning thinks this, but they are always advised that VTA is different and there is no need. Aren't you just speculating that many will go out and spend money on an "upgrade" even though people tell them that it doesn't exist? I think the average racer has more common sense than that and this is an unjustified fear.
I hope I am not crucified for this post. I am just trying to understand. I wasn't going to start this whole bruhaha up again, but I though that lately there was some flexibility on things, (like escs and spoilers and wasn't the requirement for Roar approval for LiPos just dropped?), and that this might be a successful time to bring it up. I guess it wasn't.
"As all the posts indicate"... "all" the posts ?? Interesting (and unsupportable) take on the above discussion.
I never advocated 60c and many others never advocated high C packs. I advocated being able to use the offroad packs I already have. Higher mah packs give you more practice time per pack, so they are convenient for me and others in offroad. Lots of us have them in my area and this is one of the reasons all the tracks in my state ignore this rule.
Who is saying that 6500 60c packs are "better" in VTA? In the pits at trackside, I consistently hear that mah and C rating aren't important in VTA. Maybe a newbie in the very beginning thinks this, but they are always advised that VTA is different and there is no need. Aren't you just speculating that many will go out and spend money on an "upgrade" even though people tell them that it doesn't exist? I think the average racer has more common sense than that and this is an unjustified fear.
I hope I am not crucified for this post. I am just trying to understand. I wasn't going to start this whole bruhaha up again, but I though that lately there was some flexibility on things, (like escs and spoilers and wasn't the requirement for Roar approval for LiPos just dropped?), and that this might be a successful time to bring it up. I guess it wasn't.
EA
04-16-2012, 06:41 PM
#523
Here's a thought....
Aside from the economics of buying new batteries versus using old but illegal batteries, how many average VTA drivers will ever realize the difference?
Case in point, at the race last weekend it was painfully obvious to me how important setup and driving are to being fast.
On the straights i was as fast or faster than the "fast" guys. But my setup was off and my driving inconsistent.
Looking at the fast guy's laps, his fast lap was 3 tenths faster than his average laps. Talk about consistency.
If you open up the battery rules, everyone will rush out and buy Uber Battery because they think it will make them fast. And that's bad for the class.
To the people who already own batteries, the money spent on a 5000mah battery is peace of mind knowing that your batteries aren't holding you back.
VTA is a class where horsepower won't hide your lack of driving and setup skills. Understand that, and you understand the philosophy behind the rules.
Aside from the economics of buying new batteries versus using old but illegal batteries, how many average VTA drivers will ever realize the difference?
Case in point, at the race last weekend it was painfully obvious to me how important setup and driving are to being fast.
On the straights i was as fast or faster than the "fast" guys. But my setup was off and my driving inconsistent.
Looking at the fast guy's laps, his fast lap was 3 tenths faster than his average laps. Talk about consistency.
If you open up the battery rules, everyone will rush out and buy Uber Battery because they think it will make them fast. And that's bad for the class.
To the people who already own batteries, the money spent on a 5000mah battery is peace of mind knowing that your batteries aren't holding you back.
VTA is a class where horsepower won't hide your lack of driving and setup skills. Understand that, and you understand the philosophy behind the rules.
04-16-2012, 06:42 PM
#524
You buy different motor's, bodies, tires,ect to race different classes dont you ? So whats the problem with getting different batteries. I dont see what the issue is, if you dont want to follow the set rules dont run the class. I didnt want to spend $100 for a motor i can only run in one class but i did so i could run the class. It sucks to have to buy class specific stuff but thats just how it is and not just in rc.
04-16-2012, 07:07 PM
#525
I am probably treading on thin ice here, but here goes:
"As all the posts indicate"... "all" the posts ?? Interesting (and unsupportable) take on the above discussion.
I never advocated 60c and many others never advocated high C packs. I advocated being able to use the offroad packs I already have. Higher mah packs give you more practice time per pack, so they are convenient for me and others in offroad. Lots of us have them in my area and this is one of the reasons all the tracks in my state ignore this rule.
Who is saying that 6500 60c packs are "better" in VTA? In the pits at trackside, I consistently hear that mah and C rating aren't important in VTA. Maybe a newbie in the very beginning thinks this, but they are always advised that VTA is different and there is no need. Aren't you just speculating that many will go out and spend money on an "upgrade" even though people tell them that it doesn't exist? I think the average racer has more common sense than that and this is an unjustified fear.
I hope I am not crucified for this post. I am just trying to understand. I wasn't going to start this whole bruhaha up again, but I though that lately there was some flexibility on things, (like escs and spoilers and wasn't the requirement for Roar approval for LiPos just dropped?), and that this might be a successful time to bring it up. I guess it wasn't.
"As all the posts indicate"... "all" the posts ?? Interesting (and unsupportable) take on the above discussion.
I never advocated 60c and many others never advocated high C packs. I advocated being able to use the offroad packs I already have. Higher mah packs give you more practice time per pack, so they are convenient for me and others in offroad. Lots of us have them in my area and this is one of the reasons all the tracks in my state ignore this rule.
Who is saying that 6500 60c packs are "better" in VTA? In the pits at trackside, I consistently hear that mah and C rating aren't important in VTA. Maybe a newbie in the very beginning thinks this, but they are always advised that VTA is different and there is no need. Aren't you just speculating that many will go out and spend money on an "upgrade" even though people tell them that it doesn't exist? I think the average racer has more common sense than that and this is an unjustified fear.
I hope I am not crucified for this post. I am just trying to understand. I wasn't going to start this whole bruhaha up again, but I though that lately there was some flexibility on things, (like escs and spoilers and wasn't the requirement for Roar approval for LiPos just dropped?), and that this might be a successful time to bring it up. I guess it wasn't.
It comes up every couple months...