Spec racing ....
12-13-2016, 09:33 PM
#46
Some of the best racing I ever had was when our club couldn't get the usual hall in the event centre, we ended up racing with a grip level like driving on ice. You could flick spin your TC with Silver can motor and NiCD battery. You actually had to drive and manage your car, be gentle on the throttle, slow down to stay online and had long braking zones. Cars were squirming around under braking. The racing was epic. Then I also raced modified, 5 cell 4.5 on the same surface. Crawling around the infield barely touching the throttle, then nailing it on the back straight, before hitting the brakes halfway not to overcook the first corner. Maybe reducing traction this much is going a little too far though
12-19-2016, 09:42 AM
#47
I agree 100% Phil, you said everything I'm feeling about 17.5 racing...I would love to due closed can handouts..
Also I'm amazed how in the USA dudes perfer stock over mod. Why are the top level drivers are not running or promoting mod?
Also I'm amazed how in the USA dudes perfer stock over mod. Why are the top level drivers are not running or promoting mod?
12-19-2016, 10:03 AM
#48
This is the reason I came to on-road from oval racing. People with motor/battery connections have a huge advantage.
Another good way of eliminating power advantages is for track directors or owners to make layouts so technical that power is a non-factor and more attention is placed on the chassis setup than the motors.
I also like the handout motor ideas but, until the ridiculous prices come down, this may not work.
Another good way of eliminating power advantages is for track directors or owners to make layouts so technical that power is a non-factor and more attention is placed on the chassis setup than the motors.
I also like the handout motor ideas but, until the ridiculous prices come down, this may not work.
12-19-2016, 12:49 PM
#49
Option1: Use a handout motor that noone has ever heard of. Seal it up before the start of the event, and 1 motor per entry.
Option2: Go back to cheap brushed handout motors. One #'d motor per entry.
Option3: Just run mod. Start making fun of top level guys for not running mod. (sissies) 3.5 can be a spec motor? Right?
Quick question though,if every single one of us are playing motor of the month, does it really matter anyways? Who doesn't have a fresh new short stack style 17.5 by now? I just ordered one myself.
Are the guys that are buying 3 or 4 motors really finding that one of them is SIGNIFICANTLY faster? Or is it a mental placebo.
Option2: Go back to cheap brushed handout motors. One #'d motor per entry.
Option3: Just run mod. Start making fun of top level guys for not running mod. (sissies) 3.5 can be a spec motor? Right?
Quick question though,if every single one of us are playing motor of the month, does it really matter anyways? Who doesn't have a fresh new short stack style 17.5 by now? I just ordered one myself.
Are the guys that are buying 3 or 4 motors really finding that one of them is SIGNIFICANTLY faster? Or is it a mental placebo.
Last edited by Zerodefect; 12-19-2016 at 01:03 PM.
12-19-2016, 02:10 PM
#50
Option1: Use a handout motor that noone has ever heard of. Seal it up before the start of the event, and 1 motor per entry.
Option2: Go back to cheap brushed handout motors. One #'d motor per entry.
Option3: Just run mod. Start making fun of top level guys for not running mod. (sissies) 3.5 can be a spec motor? Right?
Quick question though,if every single one of us are playing motor of the month, does it really matter anyways? Who doesn't have a fresh new short stack style 17.5 by now? I just ordered one myself.
Are the guys that are buying 3 or 4 motors really finding that one of them is SIGNIFICANTLY faster? Or is it a mental placebo.
Option2: Go back to cheap brushed handout motors. One #'d motor per entry.
Option3: Just run mod. Start making fun of top level guys for not running mod. (sissies) 3.5 can be a spec motor? Right?
Quick question though,if every single one of us are playing motor of the month, does it really matter anyways? Who doesn't have a fresh new short stack style 17.5 by now? I just ordered one myself.
Are the guys that are buying 3 or 4 motors really finding that one of them is SIGNIFICANTLY faster? Or is it a mental placebo.
12-19-2016, 02:14 PM
#51
Tech Addict
Make the spec tire a super crappy tire.. Make it so bad it could look like a mix of drifting and racing. well.. you would not drift in race unless you overcook it.. Cool thing then is spool would be out and everyone would try to be smooth.. Like jazzz
12-19-2016, 02:32 PM
#52
Honestly the most honest assessment here.
At the 1:1 level we have sealed motors to prevent tampering.....guess what.....the guys who seal the motors have friends that race in the series...... think they are getting the same motor as joe schmoe? If you aren't friends with the guy you buy 5 $10,000 engines, dyno them all and then keep the one that makes the most power. People coming in to the sport aren't aware of what goes on and are oblivious to the cost of entry.
We are talking about scale spec racing, the $$ scale is also tiny in comparison. Spec racing will never be an even playing field, try as you might to make it that way. Limiting traction is just about the only way to limit the benefits of more power\punch from the powertrain.
At the 1:1 level we have sealed motors to prevent tampering.....guess what.....the guys who seal the motors have friends that race in the series...... think they are getting the same motor as joe schmoe? If you aren't friends with the guy you buy 5 $10,000 engines, dyno them all and then keep the one that makes the most power. People coming in to the sport aren't aware of what goes on and are oblivious to the cost of entry.
We are talking about scale spec racing, the $$ scale is also tiny in comparison. Spec racing will never be an even playing field, try as you might to make it that way. Limiting traction is just about the only way to limit the benefits of more power\punch from the powertrain.
A local outdoor asphalt oval track started on-road this past summer, using part of the oval and the pit lane for the course. They don't treat the ashpalt with any traction compound, so the grip level is fairly low. It isn't a huge track, with USVTA cars in the 12 second range.
Even with USVTA cars, you have to be smooth on the throttle, braking now becomes a skill and traction rolling isn't even a thought. The cars slide all over the place, especially if you aren't smooth on the inputs. The racing is fantastic, with the cars going through the corners in 4-wheel drifts, side by side. Good stuff!
I actually prefer it over the uber grip of indoor carpet, where if you blink you're traction rolling. I don't have to glue tire sidewalls and can slide the car through the corners under power. Driver skill and smoothness is really rewarded.
In 17.5TC, motor wars are non-existent here as well. I actually won an A-main in 17.5TC this fall with my 21.5 USGT car because I could put the power down better. Any decent 17.5 motor will work, simply because it's hard to use all of the power.
In F1, even though I could use a 21.5 motor, I could do the same laptimes with a 25.5 motor simply because I could put the power down better. But I wouldn't advocate for limiting it to 25.5 motors, because ANY 21.5 is enough. Even the el cheapos.
More traction doesn't necessarily mean better racing. And it certainly is NOT guaranteed to be cheaper or easier. Limiting the cars' speed by limiting power is proving to be a mirage.
Mark
Even with USVTA cars, you have to be smooth on the throttle, braking now becomes a skill and traction rolling isn't even a thought. The cars slide all over the place, especially if you aren't smooth on the inputs. The racing is fantastic, with the cars going through the corners in 4-wheel drifts, side by side. Good stuff!
I actually prefer it over the uber grip of indoor carpet, where if you blink you're traction rolling. I don't have to glue tire sidewalls and can slide the car through the corners under power. Driver skill and smoothness is really rewarded.
In 17.5TC, motor wars are non-existent here as well. I actually won an A-main in 17.5TC this fall with my 21.5 USGT car because I could put the power down better. Any decent 17.5 motor will work, simply because it's hard to use all of the power.
In F1, even though I could use a 21.5 motor, I could do the same laptimes with a 25.5 motor simply because I could put the power down better. But I wouldn't advocate for limiting it to 25.5 motors, because ANY 21.5 is enough. Even the el cheapos.
More traction doesn't necessarily mean better racing. And it certainly is NOT guaranteed to be cheaper or easier. Limiting the cars' speed by limiting power is proving to be a mirage.
Mark
12-19-2016, 03:28 PM
#53
Think about this. You have 2 tracks, one 40 minutes from your house that runs the old CRC gray carpet. Another track is 45 minutes away, but has the new black CRC carpet. One is 40x95 the other us 45x90. Both perfectly flat. Which track will you go to?
I know for a fact that I would go to the one that has more traction. If tracks start using a lower traction spec tire, that track is going to suffer severely. A few guys that have something against 17.5 want to ruin the fun for everybody.
It seems as though that the attacks on spec racing is always about the 17.5 class, whether its buggy or TC. Nobody complains about USGT running 21.5, nobody complains about VTA using 25.5, I never hear anybody complain that 13.5 1/12th is no fun.
If you want to win, you have to do what the winners are doing only better. Whether its buy the fastest motor, or drive better. I personally dont mind coming in second place to a guy that I know is charging at 40 amps with special team motors and batteries, I enjoy beating them more than everyone else.
I know for a fact that I would go to the one that has more traction. If tracks start using a lower traction spec tire, that track is going to suffer severely. A few guys that have something against 17.5 want to ruin the fun for everybody.
It seems as though that the attacks on spec racing is always about the 17.5 class, whether its buggy or TC. Nobody complains about USGT running 21.5, nobody complains about VTA using 25.5, I never hear anybody complain that 13.5 1/12th is no fun.
If you want to win, you have to do what the winners are doing only better. Whether its buy the fastest motor, or drive better. I personally dont mind coming in second place to a guy that I know is charging at 40 amps with special team motors and batteries, I enjoy beating them more than everyone else.
12-19-2016, 05:42 PM
#55
Ive been following this thread after attending Cleveland and stock wars. I happen to agree that a handout motor drawn at random is the right move for all the big races. 1 thing I dont agree with is the whining about top guys getting the best stuff.. I see nothing wrong with the best stuff going to the guys who have earned that privilege. If you are upset you cant get it then spend the thousands of dollars they spend to attend all the big races. Then be a solid A main guy at all these races.. crying because you cant get it when you only run at 1 or 2 tracks is insane... it really doesn't matter tho as the same guys will be up front with handout motors to.
