Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.
10-19-2006, 09:38 PM
#391
The Peugeot never did blow over (except one time early on). I did cutout the two holes. It had good front downforce, but a little weak on the sweeper compared to the Stilletto body. It did weave horribly on the straight with no spoiler and stock side dams. I am wondering if your trick on reaming the steering knuckles will help this. I don't mind the rear wing as I got huge rear traction with it. I could use the stock side dams maybe. I really need a thicker body though. I plan to order one of the .030 inch models. The side may not actually be this thick once it's formed.
Now maybe there were no blowovers with the Peugeot because the front dam was too wimpy to be lifted by a bottoming suspension. Thats what I think by observing the car.
I'll see tomorrow if the Nissan 300 Z has improved performance on the sweeper from the recent changes. I had one puddle on the sweeper today that reappeared so we drove a shortened course.
Saturday we will treat the track again. The car should be ballistic. I have a transponder in it now. I'll try to get laptimes.
Thanks for the info on the RC10l. So if I got a short servo and laid it flat my ackerman may be worse. I think I could remove all bump steer. The 10 L had steering rods in the servo arm one above the other. On our more recent cars they are side by side on the servo saver.
Sidewinder Drive
I am going to start calling the drive on these cars a sidewinder drive, because thats what we called an identical drive on a slot car, to differentiate it from inline or angle winder drive. The "D drive" does not seem to be very descriptive as there are 4 types of diff rings on the market only one of which is D shaped. Maybe there is another reason for this name. There is a sidewinder Rattle snake. That is reason enough. Would make a good drive logo on a box.
New Orion 3200 mA-h Avionics LiPo fit picture on the previous page.
Now maybe there were no blowovers with the Peugeot because the front dam was too wimpy to be lifted by a bottoming suspension. Thats what I think by observing the car.
I'll see tomorrow if the Nissan 300 Z has improved performance on the sweeper from the recent changes. I had one puddle on the sweeper today that reappeared so we drove a shortened course.
Saturday we will treat the track again. The car should be ballistic. I have a transponder in it now. I'll try to get laptimes.
Thanks for the info on the RC10l. So if I got a short servo and laid it flat my ackerman may be worse. I think I could remove all bump steer. The 10 L had steering rods in the servo arm one above the other. On our more recent cars they are side by side on the servo saver.
Sidewinder Drive
I am going to start calling the drive on these cars a sidewinder drive, because thats what we called an identical drive on a slot car, to differentiate it from inline or angle winder drive. The "D drive" does not seem to be very descriptive as there are 4 types of diff rings on the market only one of which is D shaped. Maybe there is another reason for this name. There is a sidewinder Rattle snake. That is reason enough. Would make a good drive logo on a box.
New Orion 3200 mA-h Avionics LiPo fit picture on the previous page.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 11-07-2006 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Added (one time early on) re: blowover
10-19-2006, 09:55 PM
#392
I got some more information from Doug Powell of Doug Powell Racing Components and a Pic of the Wide Pantoura conversion parts. These are available with a request by e-mail. e-mail Addy below.
Wide Pan Conversion for the Pantoura
New graphite chassis, bottom and top pod plates available.
"The top pod plate is one that I offer for the 10L2 to convert to a tri-shock setup."
DougPowellRacingComponents. com
[email protected]
Wide Pan Conversion for the Pantoura
New graphite chassis, bottom and top pod plates available.
"The top pod plate is one that I offer for the 10L2 to convert to a tri-shock setup."
DougPowellRacingComponents. com
[email protected]
Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-27-2006 at 02:29 PM.
10-19-2006, 10:58 PM
#393
Originally Posted by John Stranahan
The Peugeot never did blow over. I did cutout the two holes. It had good front downforce, but a little weak on the sweeper compared to the Stilletto body. It did weave horribly on the straight with no spoiler and stock side dams. I am wondering if your trick on reaming the steering knuckles will help this. I don't mind the rear wing as I got huge rear traction with it. I could use the stock side dams maybe. I really need a thicker body though. I plan to order one of the .030 inch models. The side may not actually be this thick once it's formed.
Now maybe there were no blowovers with the Peugeot because the front dam was too wimpy to be lifted by a bottoming suspension. Thats what I think by observing the car.
I'll see tomorrow if the Nissan 300 Z has improved performance on the sweeper from the recent changes. I had one puddle on the sweeper today that reappeared so we drove a shortened course.
Saturday we will treat the track again. The car should be ballistic. I have a transponder in it now. I'll try to get laptimes.
Thanks for the info on the RC10l. So if I got a short servo and laid it flat my ackerman may be worse. I think I could remove all bump steer. The 10 L had steering rods in the servo arm one above the other. On our more recent cars they are side by side on the servo saver.
Sidewinder Drive
I am going to start calling the drive on these cars a sidewinder drive, because thats what we called an identical drive on a slot car, as opposed to inline or angle winder drive. The "D drive" does not seem to be very descriptive as there are 4 types of diff rings on the market only one of which is D shaped. Maybe there is another reason for this name. There is a sidewinder Rattle snake. That is reason enough. Would make a good drive logo on a box.
New Orion 3200 mA-h Avionics LiPo fit picture on the previous page.
Now maybe there were no blowovers with the Peugeot because the front dam was too wimpy to be lifted by a bottoming suspension. Thats what I think by observing the car.
I'll see tomorrow if the Nissan 300 Z has improved performance on the sweeper from the recent changes. I had one puddle on the sweeper today that reappeared so we drove a shortened course.
Saturday we will treat the track again. The car should be ballistic. I have a transponder in it now. I'll try to get laptimes.
Thanks for the info on the RC10l. So if I got a short servo and laid it flat my ackerman may be worse. I think I could remove all bump steer. The 10 L had steering rods in the servo arm one above the other. On our more recent cars they are side by side on the servo saver.
Sidewinder Drive
I am going to start calling the drive on these cars a sidewinder drive, because thats what we called an identical drive on a slot car, as opposed to inline or angle winder drive. The "D drive" does not seem to be very descriptive as there are 4 types of diff rings on the market only one of which is D shaped. Maybe there is another reason for this name. There is a sidewinder Rattle snake. That is reason enough. Would make a good drive logo on a box.
New Orion 3200 mA-h Avionics LiPo fit picture on the previous page.
Can I use the that ? The Sidewinder
10-19-2006, 11:02 PM
#395
Originally Posted by John Stranahan
I got some more information from Doug Powell of Doug Powell Racing Components and a Pic of the Wide Pantoura conversion parts. These are available with a request by e-mail. e-mail Addy below.
Wide Pan Conversion for the Pantoura
New graphite chassis, bottom and top pod plates available.
"The top pod plate is one that I offer for the 10L2 to convert to a tri-shock setup."
[email protected]
Wide Pan Conversion for the Pantoura
New graphite chassis, bottom and top pod plates available.
"The top pod plate is one that I offer for the 10L2 to convert to a tri-shock setup."
[email protected]
Well I guess I will need to do something real cool now
10-20-2006, 11:38 AM
#397
Originally Posted by tallyrc
i wonder how much and how hard it would be to make my 10l3T wide?... probably more than just buying a 10l2...
10-20-2006, 12:34 PM
#398
Before you buy a 10L2, I'm developing a chassis for the 10L2 with wider battery slots allowing you to use 4200's. I also offer a CF bottom pod plate for the L2 as well as the tri-shock top plate the John mentioned above. Along with the new chassis, I'll do a chassis brace. Once everything is finished, you won't need to buy a 10L2 to build a race ready 10L2.
Matts.
10-20-2006, 05:04 PM
#399
Marty-Yes I have no copyright on Sidewinder.
Track Report Track Dusty
McAllister 300 Nissan Z body.
The slammed body came slowly into tune today with difficult track conditions. My goal today was to eliminate blowovers with it on the straight when it reached 60 mph or so. I installed a flexible dam with strapping tape. Two layer one inside one outside. I have seen some nice looking purple strapping tape. This let me have it low without anoying scraping noise. I reinstalled the HPI molded wing from my Stiletto body. This wing is available separately for about $6.00. I moved it forward and cut down the mounts until the front of the mounts are about 1/4 inch tall. It's back edge is 3/4 inch back of the rear axle. I have a rear 1.5 inch total spoiler installed. The tires tuned in at Magenta fronts and Pink rears so I have quite a bit better steering than I did before lowering the body. I cured a slight fishtail tendency entering the sweeper with some side dams attached to the HPI wing. No blowovers or wheelies on the last pack. It is kind of fun to be able to lift the nose with motor power at mid straight, but its best to tune this out.
Orion Pack
The Orion pack tested poorly at the track on the Turbo 30. It felt OK in the car, but not a lot better than the Apogee packs that are also testing poorly of late. I'll restest it at home to make sure it is tested right off the charger. The Scorpion Lithium Cobalt Dioxide packs seem to be the best performing pack of those that I have tested. I have pretty much decided that they are all going to be either flammable to some degree or be able to spew out a good quantity of super heated fluid that will ignite anything in the neighborhood. This is probably what the Apogee pack did. This only seems to happen after a charging or discharging "problem",so you just need to exercise more care with them.
Orion Pack 3rd Discharge
I retested the pack at home. Runtime 3072 mA-h. That's pretty good. Only a little less than the 3200 rating. Average Voltage over a 20 Amp discharge cycle 6.90 V. That's a little on the pathetic side as the Scorpions and Apogee's tested at 7.25 Volts when new. The Scorpion tested 7.25 V after 30 cycles. The Apoggee dropped to about 7.0 V after 30 cycles. I'll test The Orion Avionics pack again in a few days and after a few more cycles and see if the numbers improve. Even with the low voltage the pack may feel better with mod motors than NiMH due to better ratings at a higher amp charge than I tested.
Track Report Track Dusty
McAllister 300 Nissan Z body.
The slammed body came slowly into tune today with difficult track conditions. My goal today was to eliminate blowovers with it on the straight when it reached 60 mph or so. I installed a flexible dam with strapping tape. Two layer one inside one outside. I have seen some nice looking purple strapping tape. This let me have it low without anoying scraping noise. I reinstalled the HPI molded wing from my Stiletto body. This wing is available separately for about $6.00. I moved it forward and cut down the mounts until the front of the mounts are about 1/4 inch tall. It's back edge is 3/4 inch back of the rear axle. I have a rear 1.5 inch total spoiler installed. The tires tuned in at Magenta fronts and Pink rears so I have quite a bit better steering than I did before lowering the body. I cured a slight fishtail tendency entering the sweeper with some side dams attached to the HPI wing. No blowovers or wheelies on the last pack. It is kind of fun to be able to lift the nose with motor power at mid straight, but its best to tune this out.
Orion Pack
The Orion pack tested poorly at the track on the Turbo 30. It felt OK in the car, but not a lot better than the Apogee packs that are also testing poorly of late. I'll restest it at home to make sure it is tested right off the charger. The Scorpion Lithium Cobalt Dioxide packs seem to be the best performing pack of those that I have tested. I have pretty much decided that they are all going to be either flammable to some degree or be able to spew out a good quantity of super heated fluid that will ignite anything in the neighborhood. This is probably what the Apogee pack did. This only seems to happen after a charging or discharging "problem",so you just need to exercise more care with them.
Orion Pack 3rd Discharge
I retested the pack at home. Runtime 3072 mA-h. That's pretty good. Only a little less than the 3200 rating. Average Voltage over a 20 Amp discharge cycle 6.90 V. That's a little on the pathetic side as the Scorpions and Apogee's tested at 7.25 Volts when new. The Scorpion tested 7.25 V after 30 cycles. The Apoggee dropped to about 7.0 V after 30 cycles. I'll test The Orion Avionics pack again in a few days and after a few more cycles and see if the numbers improve. Even with the low voltage the pack may feel better with mod motors than NiMH due to better ratings at a higher amp charge than I tested.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-20-2006 at 07:35 PM.
10-20-2006, 06:19 PM
#400
Originally Posted by DPowell
Before you buy a 10L2, I'm developing a chassis for the 10L2 with wider battery slots allowing you to use 4200's. I also offer a CF bottom pod plate for the L2 as well as the tri-shock top plate the John mentioned above. Along with the new chassis, I'll do a chassis brace. Once everything is finished, you won't need to buy a 10L2 to build a race ready 10L2.
10-20-2006, 07:58 PM
#401
Originally Posted by John Stranahan
Marty-Yes I have no copyright on Sidewinder.
Track Report Track Dusty
McAllister 300 Nissan Z body.
The slammed body came slowly into tune today with difficult track conditions. My goal today was to eliminate blowovers with it on the straight when it reached 60 mph or so. I installed a flexible dam with strapping tape. Two layer one inside one outside. I have seen some nice looking purple strapping tape. This let me have it low without anoying scraping noise. I reinstalled the HPI molded wing from my Stiletto body. This wing is available separately for about $6.00. I moved it forward and cut down the mounts until the front of the mounts are about 1/4 inch tall. It's back edge is 3/4 inch back of the rear axle. I have a rear 1.5 inch total spoiler installed. The tires tuned in at Magenta fronts and Pink rears so I have quite a bit better steering than I did before lowering the body. I cured a slight fishtail tendency entering the sweeper with some side dams attached to the HPI wing. No blowovers or wheelies on the last pack. It is kind of fun to be able to lift the nose with motor power at mid straight, but its best to tune this out.
Orion Pack
The Orion pack tested poorly at the track on the Turbo 30. It felt OK in the car, but not a lot better than the Apogee packs that are also testing poorly of late. I'll restest it at home to make sure it is tested right off the charger. The Scorpion Lithium Cobalt Dioxide packs seem to be the best performing pack of those that I have tested. I have pretty much decided that they are all going to be either flammable to some degree or be able to spew out a good quantity of super heated fluid that will ignite anything in the neighborhood. This is probably what the Apogee pack did. This only seems to happen after a charging or discharging "problem",so you just need to exercise more care with them.
Orion Pack 3rd Discharge
I retested the pack at home. Runtime 3072 mA-h. That's pretty good. Only a little less than the 3200 rating. Average Voltage over a 20 Amp discharge cycle 6.90 V. That's a little on the pathetic side as the Scorpions and Apogee's tested at 7.25 Volts when new. The Scorpion tested 7.25 V after 30 cycles. The Apoggee dropped to about 7.0 V after 30 cycles. I'll test The Orion Avionics pack again in a few days and after a few more cycles and see if the numbers improve. Even with the low voltage the pack may feel better with mod motors than NiMH due to better ratings at a higher amp charge than I tested.
Track Report Track Dusty
McAllister 300 Nissan Z body.
The slammed body came slowly into tune today with difficult track conditions. My goal today was to eliminate blowovers with it on the straight when it reached 60 mph or so. I installed a flexible dam with strapping tape. Two layer one inside one outside. I have seen some nice looking purple strapping tape. This let me have it low without anoying scraping noise. I reinstalled the HPI molded wing from my Stiletto body. This wing is available separately for about $6.00. I moved it forward and cut down the mounts until the front of the mounts are about 1/4 inch tall. It's back edge is 3/4 inch back of the rear axle. I have a rear 1.5 inch total spoiler installed. The tires tuned in at Magenta fronts and Pink rears so I have quite a bit better steering than I did before lowering the body. I cured a slight fishtail tendency entering the sweeper with some side dams attached to the HPI wing. No blowovers or wheelies on the last pack. It is kind of fun to be able to lift the nose with motor power at mid straight, but its best to tune this out.
Orion Pack
The Orion pack tested poorly at the track on the Turbo 30. It felt OK in the car, but not a lot better than the Apogee packs that are also testing poorly of late. I'll restest it at home to make sure it is tested right off the charger. The Scorpion Lithium Cobalt Dioxide packs seem to be the best performing pack of those that I have tested. I have pretty much decided that they are all going to be either flammable to some degree or be able to spew out a good quantity of super heated fluid that will ignite anything in the neighborhood. This is probably what the Apogee pack did. This only seems to happen after a charging or discharging "problem",so you just need to exercise more care with them.
Orion Pack 3rd Discharge
I retested the pack at home. Runtime 3072 mA-h. That's pretty good. Only a little less than the 3200 rating. Average Voltage over a 20 Amp discharge cycle 6.90 V. That's a little on the pathetic side as the Scorpions and Apogee's tested at 7.25 Volts when new. The Scorpion tested 7.25 V after 30 cycles. The Apoggee dropped to about 7.0 V after 30 cycles. I'll test The Orion Avionics pack again in a few days and after a few more cycles and see if the numbers improve. Even with the low voltage the pack may feel better with mod motors than NiMH due to better ratings at a higher amp charge than I tested.
I will still be working on a front active suspension pan car.
10-21-2006, 10:37 AM
#403
Front Suspension suggestions
John;
Just curious if you have tried an Associated 9110 Hinge Pin (1 3/8 inch length) for a kingpin? We use them on the oval cars with either Wolfe of WindTunnel springs (they are longer, 3/8 inch, and wider, about 9/32 O.D.) The springs are centered on the kingpin with spring holders to keep them in place.
I would recommend the SG1 9110 kingins as they are TiCN coated (very smooth and don't need to be polished).
The spring are available in either progressive or standard rates (and they are color coded.
)
All the parts can be purchased at either:
http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=27
or
http://members.willinet.net/bmurdock/MURDOCKRC
This might give you the front suspension travel that you want.
Just curious if you have tried an Associated 9110 Hinge Pin (1 3/8 inch length) for a kingpin? We use them on the oval cars with either Wolfe of WindTunnel springs (they are longer, 3/8 inch, and wider, about 9/32 O.D.) The springs are centered on the kingpin with spring holders to keep them in place.
I would recommend the SG1 9110 kingins as they are TiCN coated (very smooth and don't need to be polished).
The spring are available in either progressive or standard rates (and they are color coded.
) All the parts can be purchased at either:
http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=27
or
http://members.willinet.net/bmurdock/MURDOCKRC
This might give you the front suspension travel that you want.
10-21-2006, 03:13 PM
#404
Three-Thanks for the info and the links. I will sure give it a try. I was looking for the longer T2 Hinge Pins that Pro ten Holland spoke of, but they were out of stock at my Hobby shop. Did not get a chance to look for longer springs. Your links should help.
Track Damp
I had the McAllister Nissan 300 Z (GT) body hooked up pretty well today. We had to vacuum a lot of puddles off from a morning rain so I ran the short track for a bit and then finally it mostly dried out around the sweeper. High Speed Stability was good now. The front end still rises on the bumps occasionally (like a funny car on the dragstrip start) but it lowers itself gently in about a foot or two; No loss of speed straight line stability or traction. More travel would help eliminate this. I had very high speed at the end of the straight. I have some material in to make a flexure assist front suspension. If I get any results on this suspension, I'll post a picture.
Track Damp
I had the McAllister Nissan 300 Z (GT) body hooked up pretty well today. We had to vacuum a lot of puddles off from a morning rain so I ran the short track for a bit and then finally it mostly dried out around the sweeper. High Speed Stability was good now. The front end still rises on the bumps occasionally (like a funny car on the dragstrip start) but it lowers itself gently in about a foot or two; No loss of speed straight line stability or traction. More travel would help eliminate this. I had very high speed at the end of the straight. I have some material in to make a flexure assist front suspension. If I get any results on this suspension, I'll post a picture.
10-21-2006, 06:10 PM
#405
Here is a link with a picture of the springs from Wind Tunnel Racing.
http://members.fbx.com/wjmurdock/spotlight
It looks like this might be the front end to have along with some thin large spring buckets to give you the maximum suspension travel with the Associated Dynamic Strut front suspension. If I get the springs in I'll give you a report as to whether they are really progressive or not. A lot of companies advertize progressive springs which are not progressive. If the Coils bind sequentially on bump then its progressive. If they all bind at once then it's not. I have not had any axle problems, but a little heavier front axle on my light car could not hurt much.
ULTRA FRONT END KITS
$36.00 #WT3151 Ultra Front End Kit. includes: ( 1 ) pair long king pins, ( 7 )pair of Progressive springs, ( 7 ) pair of Standard springs, ( 1 ) pair of 1/8th in axles with blocks, ( 10 ) .020 shims, ( 4 ) .080 spacers, ( 6 ) spring buckets, ( 4 ) e-clips, ( 2 ) aluminum lock nuts.
Full Size Funnycar "Blowover"
I thought I would share this picture of a fullsize funnycar I took at Houston International Raceway at a large dragrace. The car is having, well, a "blowover" but not at great speed yet (probably 60-70 mph). It had gone a good distance and then lifted the nose from too much clutch. These cars are single speed and rely on a tuned multiplate clutch to lay down just enough of the 3000 Horse Power. Once the air gets under there it rises pretty quick just like my pan car. All four tires are completely off the ground. Fortunately the car has a wheelie bar to knock it back down. 1/4 mile speeds near 270 mph or so. Note nice large side dams and rear spoiler not too steep but pretty large. Parachute braked.
http://members.fbx.com/wjmurdock/spotlight
It looks like this might be the front end to have along with some thin large spring buckets to give you the maximum suspension travel with the Associated Dynamic Strut front suspension. If I get the springs in I'll give you a report as to whether they are really progressive or not. A lot of companies advertize progressive springs which are not progressive. If the Coils bind sequentially on bump then its progressive. If they all bind at once then it's not. I have not had any axle problems, but a little heavier front axle on my light car could not hurt much.
ULTRA FRONT END KITS
$36.00 #WT3151 Ultra Front End Kit. includes: ( 1 ) pair long king pins, ( 7 )pair of Progressive springs, ( 7 ) pair of Standard springs, ( 1 ) pair of 1/8th in axles with blocks, ( 10 ) .020 shims, ( 4 ) .080 spacers, ( 6 ) spring buckets, ( 4 ) e-clips, ( 2 ) aluminum lock nuts.
Full Size Funnycar "Blowover"
I thought I would share this picture of a fullsize funnycar I took at Houston International Raceway at a large dragrace. The car is having, well, a "blowover" but not at great speed yet (probably 60-70 mph). It had gone a good distance and then lifted the nose from too much clutch. These cars are single speed and rely on a tuned multiplate clutch to lay down just enough of the 3000 Horse Power. Once the air gets under there it rises pretty quick just like my pan car. All four tires are completely off the ground. Fortunately the car has a wheelie bar to knock it back down. 1/4 mile speeds near 270 mph or so. Note nice large side dams and rear spoiler not too steep but pretty large. Parachute braked.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-21-2006 at 10:33 PM.