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Tire wear and tuning...

Tire wear and tuning...

Old 08-22-2003, 05:56 PM
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Default Tire wear and tuning...

Ok, my tires are actually wearing out and I need some advice. I have rotated them regularly, and they seem to be wearing most at the inner edge, right at the edge of the sidewall. Not dramatic, and very evenly, but I can feel an "edge" if you get my meaning, far more at the inner side than the outer. Does this mean I'm running too much negative camber, or? What should I be learning from this? Thanks to all, ...N
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Old 08-22-2003, 08:26 PM
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The easiest way to setup camber is by tyre wear. If your tyres are wearing on the inside(closer to the chassis) you have too much negative camber and if there wearing on the outside(farther out form the chassis) you have too much positive camber. You want the tyres to wear right in the middle so that you get as much life from them as possible.

If your tyres are wearing on the outer and inner edge but less so in the middle it could be becuase of excess caster. Excess caster mixed with too much negative or positive camber would just make the problem worse.
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Old 08-22-2003, 08:43 PM
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Thanks very much, I thought that was the case. Would you please elaborate a bit on that last about the caster? Why? ...N
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Old 08-22-2003, 10:31 PM
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Post CASTER

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Last edited by mb racer; 08-24-2003 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 08-23-2003, 12:53 AM
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rpnick - Caster is a tuning option that can either give you more turn-in(more caster) or more turn-out(less caster). Try this, put your car on a flat surface with very little caster and turn the steering all the way to the left and then to the right, the front ride hight should stay almost the same and your tires should stay flat, now put on more caster and do the same, you will see that when the servo is at full throw that the wheels actually ride more on the edges and the front ride high should actually become greater. Now if you have alot of caster and you also have alot of camber your tires will be riding on one edge almost all the time, thus creating alot or wear on one edge but very little in the middle or the other edge. If you have the the right camber but too much caster then you will see alot of wear on the edges but less wear in the middle.
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Old 08-23-2003, 09:24 AM
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Thanks, I was fiddling around with that last night and noticed the ride height thing. I see what you're saying. I guess I'll have to play around with it a little on the street and see what the difference is. I appreciate all the input. ...N
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Old 08-23-2003, 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by mb racer
CASTER MAKES TURNING INTO CORNERS MORE AGRESSIVE ON TIRES CAUSING OUT SIDE OF TIRES TO WEAR MORE, TIRES CARVE HARDER SO MAKE SURE TOE IN ,CAMBER IS ADJUSTED CORRECTLY AND EVEN CHECK D/ R on raido ,, car may feel twitchy and even steer to fast ,,,,,.....good luck and have fun.. D/R dual rate... speed of servo...
All rc vehicles that I have seen so far have caster. Be more specific with your statement here.

But on caster, I agree with fatdoggy here as he points out very interesting things like the fact that a large amount of caster causes a tire ride on its edge.

With a touring car, I personally run very little caster unless I would happen to encounter a huge high grip track and I'm using foams. This would decrease the turn-in, but in most cases, teh lower the amount of caster the better. Especially if you are only racing in the street.


As for D/R, that does not affect servo speed. Only really high end radios such as the 3PK and R1 allow you to adjust servo speed. Dual rate (D/R) is like EPA except it adjusts the end points for the steering servo equally in both directions. If your D/R is set at 100%, you will have 100% steering. If you have 50% dual rate, you will have 50% throw.
But of course, Steering End Point Adjustment also does a similar thing, so to properly setup a radio that has both steering EPA and D/R, you first set the D/R to maximum. ON my particular radio that is 125%, and then from there I adjust the EPA so that I have full steering in both directions without the steering servo from going past what it physically can. Once you've set these, only set the D/R, you no longer have any reason to reset the EPA (unless you make an adjustment such as toe or switch servo savers/horns.) The reason to do it this way is that D/R is much easier to adjust on the radio without accessing the main setup menu. But since it is so easy to set, if you haven't maxed out the D/R but you still have full steering travel, if you want more steering and bump up the D/R more, all you would be doing is forcing the servo to push beyond the physical limits of the steering system.
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Old 08-23-2003, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: Re: CASTER

......have fun racing rookie..

Last edited by mb racer; 08-24-2003 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 08-24-2003, 08:34 AM
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No confusion here. I've been flying rc for years and I'm well familiar w/ epa, d/r, and exponential. So... No worries!

This being my first car though, I built it by the book. Right now, it's on the 10 degree setting, which is in the middle of it's range. I have the options of 8, or 12. BUT, the manual suggests 12 for "parking lot", and 8 for "high traction services", which seems the opposite of what you suggest. Which is correct? The manual has other mistakes so I wouldn't be surprised if it's wrong here too. Hmmmm.... I'm so confused!!!
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Old 08-24-2003, 04:38 PM
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rpnick - It all depends on how you like the car to feel and how the track is setup. But what Im2lazy said is 100% correct in most cases, more caster when there is more traction. I had to add more caster yesterday because I run foams on asphult and tried using sunscrean as traction compound, I gained a hugh amount of grip as compared to my usual T/C compound (paragon). I added more caster to get rid of the push my car exibited with the higher traction and it worked like a charm.

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Old 08-24-2003, 06:41 PM
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OK, I get it now... Spent the day messing around trying all the settings, and I see the effect. I think the manual refers to roughness of the surface more than traction, so their tuning tips are aimed at something different, if you get my drift... pun intended Sorry 'bout that.

Bottom line is that the car is much easier to drive, and more predictable now than yesterday. Thanks for all the input, it really helped me get a handle on this thing. Of course, when I go and drive somewhere else, I'll have to do this again... OH, I get it ...N
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Old 08-24-2003, 08:25 PM
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Depending on what brand of tyres you're running, some brands
are more prone to wearing that inner groove.

Sometimes one can try a different tyre insert too.
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Old 08-24-2003, 11:09 PM
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Default Tire wear and tuning

rpnick;

Too soft of an Insert can cause the type of wear you're seeing. If all other options fail, try going to the next harder insert.
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Old 08-25-2003, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Tire wear and tuning

Originally posted by popsracer
rpnick;

Too soft of an Insert can cause the type of wear you're seeing. If all other options fail, try going to the next harder insert.
also you could check wheel bearings they might becleand and re lubed ,,,, but they dont get changed very often and do tend to loosin up causing wheels to push outward wearing inside of tire
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Old 08-25-2003, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: Re: Tire wear and tuning

Originally posted by mb racer
also you could check wheel bearings they might becleand and re lubed ,,,, but they dont get changed very often and do tend to loosin up causing wheels to push outward wearing inside of tire
Well, I have not actually seen this happen, and a racing friend of mine busts bearings all the time. He isn't the... uhhh... maintenance type. He just went through his car to convert it to the Kyosho Evolution two weeks ago, and out of the first four bearings he looked at, he found four locked bearings....

Well, I know he eats them like they were cookies and his car was the cookie monster, but he has never experienced problems like that.

Whenever I see a problem with the grooving of the tire carcass, it is messed caster (not too common) or the insert is too soft to properly support the sidewall of the tire.

I've got to agree with Fatdoggy and Pops here, but if you've got shot bearings, it won't do this to your car... I've seen what it does. It does a lot of crap you don't want something to do on a car, but it doesn't cause tire grooving. (instead... it eats through your outdrives... ....)
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