New radio= faster laps?
04-08-2015, 02:13 AM
#31
3PMX to 4PKSr-R
I returned to racing after a 15 year lay off 3 1/2 years ago. At that time, I bought a uesd Futaba 3PM-X, and I have been using it since then. I argued with my sons that a radio is a radio. I said a more expensive radio has more features and a fancier display, but it would not make a difference in performance. It was all up to the driver. I have been struggling as a driver for the last 3 1/2 years. Last week, I had the opportunity to buy a 4PKS-R for a really good price. Before I bought it, I ran a battery pack using my 3PMX and then I ran a battery pack using my son's 4PKS-R. Once I got used to the steering, I reduced my fastest lap by .4/second, and began to run back to back consistent lap times within .5/second which I was never able to do in the past. I bought the 4PKS-R and used it for the first time tonight at practice. I knocked off another .3/second off my fastest lap and ran 6 back to back consistent laps at the faster speed. The car didn't do anything unpredictable, and accelerated smoother. I was able to run cleaner, tighter lines, and carry more speed through the corners; I think because the steering is more smooth and precise. Throttle control is also better. The radio did not make the car faster, but it enabled me to become a better driver. So bottom line, IMHO, a more expensive radio = faster laps. 
04-08-2015, 06:06 PM
#32
I must say, when I first started this thread I thought I would get bashed and be called, well basically, a liar. However it seams to be now all but a proven fact that a higher end radio really does=faster, more consitant laps. I can't wait for outdoor season to start so I can share the info with other racers. Thanks guys for all your input and keep the examples coming.
Nick
Nick
05-07-2015, 09:22 AM
#33
Yep I have a Spektrum Dx3s and an airtronics mxs as well as an airtronics m11x, and despite the horrible interface on the m11x, It feels by far much nicer than the other radios that I own.
05-28-2015, 10:27 AM
#35
I do own a Futaba T3VCS transmitter with the Spektrum HRS modul. This one only works on a high framerate (HRS). So yes, with some models still having analog servo's I made them possible with a high framerate transmitter.
What is a framerate you might ask....
A frame is one string of one time information for all servo channels. A normal framerate is about 20msec long, a high framerate is 5.5msec or faster. Futaba HRS is about 4msec, the new Futaba F-HRS is about 2.9msec and the new Sanwa claims 2.23msec.
Because servo's still need a pulse between 1 and 2 msec it cannot go any faster and it does explain why an old multi channel transmitter can handle up to 9 channels maximum..
05-28-2015, 01:14 PM
#36
Thank you Roelof. I have a truggy that has a digital steering servo and a analog throttle servo. With a newer system in HRS mode, would that analog servo still function? I only ask for learning purpose, I'd switch one or the other out since many of the modern systems have analog modes.
05-28-2015, 01:52 PM
#37
No, analog servo's will act weird on a high framerate, they even can burn out. It is not wise to give it a try.
06-09-2015, 03:42 AM
#38
great thread deserves a bump
after reading this thread I was on the drivers stand twice over the last week with my futaba 3pl looking at the other radios. Kopro, spectrum, Futaba 4** with a massive plasma screen, sanwa MT4 and 12. all high end to match high end cars.
frame rate/latency must make a difference as does a)your ability to set up your car so you can 'put round' quick as does b)your natural ability combined with the amount of c)real practice you do.
I found this quote from a while back where a post suggested that only a computer could tell the difference frame rate/latency.
let's keep this thread going with real examples+ the best radio in 2015 and beyond
frame rate/latency must make a difference as does a)your ability to set up your car so you can 'put round' quick as does b)your natural ability combined with the amount of c)real practice you do.
I found this quote from a while back where a post suggested that only a computer could tell the difference frame rate/latency.
let's keep this thread going with real examples+ the best radio in 2015 and beyond
I must be a computer then. While I have never used a KO radio, I can CLEARLY tell the difference between an M11 and a Spektrum. M11 is MUCH quicker.
Of course, I can also tell the difference between a wired and wireless Xbox controller.
Reaction time has nothing to do with it, it's about latency. Imagine a radio with a response time of 1.0 seconds. In other words, you turn the wheel or hit the brakes and it is 1 full second before the car does anything. Even if you had instantaneous reaction times, do you think you could drive that car well? Most driving isn't about reaction time, you are anticipating what you are going to do next. But if the car takes a certain amount of time to respond to your anticipated action, you will have to back everything up and make those moves slightly sooner.
In reactionary situations, the amount of time it takes the CAR to respond is your reaction time PLUS any latency in the radio. So if your reaction time is 200ms and the latency of the radio is 20ms, that's 220ms before the car actually responds. If I have the same reaction time but a 6ms radio, my car responds in 206ms. In situations where you are avoiding a crash by fractions of an inch, that could make the difference. Maybe it isn't much but all else being equal, I will crash a few times less over the course of a year than you do.
Of course, I can also tell the difference between a wired and wireless Xbox controller.
Reaction time has nothing to do with it, it's about latency. Imagine a radio with a response time of 1.0 seconds. In other words, you turn the wheel or hit the brakes and it is 1 full second before the car does anything. Even if you had instantaneous reaction times, do you think you could drive that car well? Most driving isn't about reaction time, you are anticipating what you are going to do next. But if the car takes a certain amount of time to respond to your anticipated action, you will have to back everything up and make those moves slightly sooner.
In reactionary situations, the amount of time it takes the CAR to respond is your reaction time PLUS any latency in the radio. So if your reaction time is 200ms and the latency of the radio is 20ms, that's 220ms before the car actually responds. If I have the same reaction time but a 6ms radio, my car responds in 206ms. In situations where you are avoiding a crash by fractions of an inch, that could make the difference. Maybe it isn't much but all else being equal, I will crash a few times less over the course of a year than you do.
06-12-2015, 01:55 PM
#39
I have an original mt4. I was wondering if any racer has experience with the latter and a M12 or similar. I would spend the coin if I would get tangible improvement. On another note what about high end receivers and servos...worth the coin?
06-14-2015, 01:31 PM
#40
If you have a MT4 or similar radio and a cheap servo, I actually think you would feel the biggest difference upgrading your servo to a high end servo instead of buying an M12.
06-14-2015, 06:01 PM
#41
The chain is only as strong as the weakest link. No need to spend top dollar on a high end radio if you have a cheap servo.
If you have a MT4 or similar radio and a cheap servo, I actually think you would feel the biggest difference upgrading your servo to a high end servo instead of buying an M12.
If you have a MT4 or similar radio and a cheap servo, I actually think you would feel the biggest difference upgrading your servo to a high end servo instead of buying an M12.
Last edited by SouthFloridaApp; 06-14-2015 at 08:31 PM.
06-15-2015, 12:54 AM
#42
If you end up buying a new (better) servo, I would maybe get one with more torque. In 1/8 e buggy you must have adequate torque.
06-15-2015, 02:02 AM
#43
Tech Regular
Narow band servo
Just a note for servos for m12 and mt4s - if you are to use the full available frame rates in SSR mode, you need a narrow band servo, able to work with signal with neutral point at 300 us. If you use standard servo in SHR the frame speed is about 4 ms at fastest for both radios. This is to say in this regard MT4, MT4S and M12 have generally equal speed when used with standard signal servo.
06-15-2015, 08:20 AM
#44
The chain is only as strong as the weakest link. No need to spend top dollar on a high end radio if you have a cheap servo.
If you have a MT4 or similar radio and a cheap servo, I actually think you would feel the biggest difference upgrading your servo to a high end servo instead of buying an M12.
If you have a MT4 or similar radio and a cheap servo, I actually think you would feel the biggest difference upgrading your servo to a high end servo instead of buying an M12.
With a normal framerate the maximum response time = speed + framerate + latency
Going from 20msec to 4msec framerate does make it 16msec faster
06-15-2015, 09:37 AM
#45
Tech Regular