LiPo 35C Vs 65C
#1
LiPo 35C Vs 65C
Im not very experienced in the latest Lipo batteries but wish to upgrade my old but good Orion Platinum 4800 15C 2S battery. How much difference in POWER/PUNCH will I notice between a Thunder Power 5400 35C battery and a 5400 65C battery in an
1. Associated SC10 RTR
2. On road 3.5T brushless
1. Associated SC10 RTR
2. On road 3.5T brushless
#2
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (13)
Here's how the math breaks down.
5400mah (5.4A) * 35C = 189A Discharge (Constant)
5400mah (5.4A) * 65C = 351A Discharge (Constant)
Higher amps = More oomph.
The nearer your discharge rates are to your ESC's maximum power delivery (Surge Maximum), the more punch you will notice throughout your entire run.
Honestly, with an SC10? I'd run the 35C battery. I don't think you'll notice the extra amps out of the 65C Battery.
5400mah (5.4A) * 35C = 189A Discharge (Constant)
5400mah (5.4A) * 65C = 351A Discharge (Constant)
Higher amps = More oomph.
The nearer your discharge rates are to your ESC's maximum power delivery (Surge Maximum), the more punch you will notice throughout your entire run.
Honestly, with an SC10? I'd run the 35C battery. I don't think you'll notice the extra amps out of the 65C Battery.
#3
As Windrake mentioned, you're better off going with the 35C.
You will find that though the 65C may give you more power, the trick is being good enough on your setup and driving skills to effectively lay down the power to the ground without spinning out.
You're better off with the 35C, and so is your wallet.
Also, if you're running it in a brushed situation, since you have a lot higher voltage under load with the 65C, this causes the motor to wear out faster.
--Paul Susbauer
Product Development
Venom Group International
You will find that though the 65C may give you more power, the trick is being good enough on your setup and driving skills to effectively lay down the power to the ground without spinning out.
You're better off with the 35C, and so is your wallet.
Also, if you're running it in a brushed situation, since you have a lot higher voltage under load with the 65C, this causes the motor to wear out faster.
--Paul Susbauer
Product Development
Venom Group International
#4
Nether battery will be better than the other. C ratings are completely false and made up...
Prove that your battery will deliver 300+ amps without blowing up, much less the rated capacity while holding 3.0v/cell, and I will take back everything.
I have yet to see a battery that will do a 30c+ discharge while holding 3v/cell and deliver the rated capacity.
Prove that your battery will deliver 300+ amps without blowing up, much less the rated capacity while holding 3.0v/cell, and I will take back everything.
I have yet to see a battery that will do a 30c+ discharge while holding 3v/cell and deliver the rated capacity.
#5
Im not very experienced in the latest Lipo batteries but wish to upgrade my old but good Orion Platinum 4800 15C 2S battery. How much difference in POWER/PUNCH will I notice between a Thunder Power 5400 35C battery and a 5400 65C battery in an
1. Associated SC10 RTR
2. On road 3.5T brushless
1. Associated SC10 RTR
2. On road 3.5T brushless
#6
Super Moderator
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
Posts: 15,473
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
Nether battery will be better than the other. C ratings are completely false and made up...
Prove that your battery will deliver 300+ amps without blowing up, much less the rated capacity while holding 3.0v/cell, and I will take back everything.
I have yet to see a battery that will do a 30c+ discharge while holding 3v/cell and deliver the rated capacity.
Prove that your battery will deliver 300+ amps without blowing up, much less the rated capacity while holding 3.0v/cell, and I will take back everything.
I have yet to see a battery that will do a 30c+ discharge while holding 3v/cell and deliver the rated capacity.
either pack will show improved performance over your old one.
#7
Taken from another forum...
''OK so I am going to go into HOW the shuffle happens. This is manufacturing process and someone can correct me if I am wrong.
ALL manufacturing processes are monitored for quality using a bell curve and what is called a standard deviation process. As manufacturing processes get better the standard deviation from the norm gets better. In other words there is still a "bell" curve but the deviation from mean or average gets tighter and the standard deviations get tighter.
So lets look at a cell manufacturer that has a pretty tight standard deviation or "tight" process.
Lets say they make 10,000 CELLS a week and their standard deviation is 1. Pretty damn tight right? A good process with a standard deviation of 1 means for every pack they make 100 are out of spec. Understand thats BOTH sides of the bell curve. So 100 are over achieving from the average and 100 are under achieving out of the 10,000.
Now one might say... HEY I am a pack maker and I want those 100 per week that are the BEST of the crop! OK... all fine and good right? WRONG... a deviation from the norm is just that... NOT a consistent thing that the manufacturing process can deliver with any consistency! If you started a pack company and signed a contract to get the left side of the bell curve YOU would be screwing yourself in the end as that 1 deviation to the left is not a consistent process that can be sustained... It's just a fall out of the process itself!
On the other hand lets look at why what I call the "shuffle" that happens. So in 6 months the cell manufacturer makes 6x10,000 or 60,000 cells. Simple yes? Well their one standard deviation to the right now makes 6x100 or 600 cells that are no good. Over time they build up a stock of these "to the right of the curve" cells and they are not just going to toss them. THEY SHOULD and in the old days the USA or other quality companies would toss them. Unfortunately today THESE over stock cells of inferior quality get HANDED to the pack makers without them knowing it. SHAME!
Now my example above is a "tight" process with a tight standard deviation. You might say. HECK 600 cells in 6 months WHY would that cause pack makers to worry? Well what if the standard deviation was larger? lets say out of the 10,000 cells a week instead to 100 being outside the average 1000 were out of the average? That is only 1 more deviation away from mean! Now in 6 months they have 6,000 cells on the right side of the bell curve they made and are sitting on.
You can see how a pack maker could get screwed by having ONE of those cells in a pack. The cell makers ARE NOT tossing these out... They are mixing them into batches sent to pack makers. And the BAD part is they don't do this in the beginning they do this LATER to DUMP the cells. Thus what I call the "shuffle"!
A new pack maker comes along and calls up a cell maker and says "hey I want to make packs". As the new customer the cell maker sends them "possibly" the "to the left of the bell curve" cells or what are called "ringer" cells to get their business. They say "we are the best". The packer maker agrees after testing and they buy in, and buy cells to make packs. Then all things are going happily along UNTIL the day the cell makers decides for whatever reason to DUMP the "to the right" cells. Maybe they do this to the HIGH volume customer so they don;t notice? Maybe they do it to the low volume customer to LOOSE them so they can get a new customer with a higher demand? Whatever the case... THIS is the shuffle!
An thus the "shuffle" which I think has and will happen again unless the pack makers start and continue to monitor quality coming from the cell makers. It is a fact of life the cell makers are willing to do the "shuffle" to their customers. It's sad really and bad business. But when you only have 4 or 5 cell manufacturers with low competition and high demand, they will DUMP the cells to the right of the bell curve on customers when they can. Why? Because they CAN and ONLY because 99% of the pack makers are not doing quality control!
And thus the pack makers and their BRAND NAME gets hurt in the process and go out of business. YET there are many out there willing to start yet another pack and brand and live this stupid cycle. Again I cant even NAME all the pack makers and brands that have been out and are now gone in the last 5 years. Hell one of my local hobby shops just started THEIR own brand! I warned them about the "shuffle" and got a "deer in the headlights look". Oh well.... here we go again!
Bob''
ALL manufacturing processes are monitored for quality using a bell curve and what is called a standard deviation process. As manufacturing processes get better the standard deviation from the norm gets better. In other words there is still a "bell" curve but the deviation from mean or average gets tighter and the standard deviations get tighter.
So lets look at a cell manufacturer that has a pretty tight standard deviation or "tight" process.
Lets say they make 10,000 CELLS a week and their standard deviation is 1. Pretty damn tight right? A good process with a standard deviation of 1 means for every pack they make 100 are out of spec. Understand thats BOTH sides of the bell curve. So 100 are over achieving from the average and 100 are under achieving out of the 10,000.
Now one might say... HEY I am a pack maker and I want those 100 per week that are the BEST of the crop! OK... all fine and good right? WRONG... a deviation from the norm is just that... NOT a consistent thing that the manufacturing process can deliver with any consistency! If you started a pack company and signed a contract to get the left side of the bell curve YOU would be screwing yourself in the end as that 1 deviation to the left is not a consistent process that can be sustained... It's just a fall out of the process itself!
On the other hand lets look at why what I call the "shuffle" that happens. So in 6 months the cell manufacturer makes 6x10,000 or 60,000 cells. Simple yes? Well their one standard deviation to the right now makes 6x100 or 600 cells that are no good. Over time they build up a stock of these "to the right of the curve" cells and they are not just going to toss them. THEY SHOULD and in the old days the USA or other quality companies would toss them. Unfortunately today THESE over stock cells of inferior quality get HANDED to the pack makers without them knowing it. SHAME!
Now my example above is a "tight" process with a tight standard deviation. You might say. HECK 600 cells in 6 months WHY would that cause pack makers to worry? Well what if the standard deviation was larger? lets say out of the 10,000 cells a week instead to 100 being outside the average 1000 were out of the average? That is only 1 more deviation away from mean! Now in 6 months they have 6,000 cells on the right side of the bell curve they made and are sitting on.
You can see how a pack maker could get screwed by having ONE of those cells in a pack. The cell makers ARE NOT tossing these out... They are mixing them into batches sent to pack makers. And the BAD part is they don't do this in the beginning they do this LATER to DUMP the cells. Thus what I call the "shuffle"!
A new pack maker comes along and calls up a cell maker and says "hey I want to make packs". As the new customer the cell maker sends them "possibly" the "to the left of the bell curve" cells or what are called "ringer" cells to get their business. They say "we are the best". The packer maker agrees after testing and they buy in, and buy cells to make packs. Then all things are going happily along UNTIL the day the cell makers decides for whatever reason to DUMP the "to the right" cells. Maybe they do this to the HIGH volume customer so they don;t notice? Maybe they do it to the low volume customer to LOOSE them so they can get a new customer with a higher demand? Whatever the case... THIS is the shuffle!
An thus the "shuffle" which I think has and will happen again unless the pack makers start and continue to monitor quality coming from the cell makers. It is a fact of life the cell makers are willing to do the "shuffle" to their customers. It's sad really and bad business. But when you only have 4 or 5 cell manufacturers with low competition and high demand, they will DUMP the cells to the right of the bell curve on customers when they can. Why? Because they CAN and ONLY because 99% of the pack makers are not doing quality control!
And thus the pack makers and their BRAND NAME gets hurt in the process and go out of business. YET there are many out there willing to start yet another pack and brand and live this stupid cycle. Again I cant even NAME all the pack makers and brands that have been out and are now gone in the last 5 years. Hell one of my local hobby shops just started THEIR own brand! I warned them about the "shuffle" and got a "deer in the headlights look". Oh well.... here we go again!
Bob''
#8
The above post is the sort of thing that probably sounds really smart to those who are uninformed about the world of manufacturing, but actually is quite meaningless.
Without knowing the upper and lower limits that are applied to a particular aspect of a cell's performance, it doesn't make any sense to speak a bunch of gobbledygook about standard deviation and whatnot. It has been nearly 16 years since I worked for a cell manufacturer (this was back when NiMH was high-tech stuff), but at that time we did indeed see a lot of variation in the performance of individual cells. The cells were binned through a testing and sorting process (as is also common in the semiconductor industry), and lower-bin cells were indeed sold - but at a lower price and with full disclosure. I don't see a problem with that. With the increased sophistication of modern manufacturing, I would expect less of that to be going on nowadays.
BTW - performance characteristics of a complex assembly rarely follow a standard Gaussian distribution.
The real problem, in my mind, is that there are no industry-accepted standards for establishing the maximum discharge rate of a cell or pack. Manufacturers might rate a cell based upon near-100% SOC and a cutoff voltage around 2.0-2.5V/cell, while customers would like to think that it is done at a very low SOC and a cutoff of ~3V/cell. And the whole "burst" thing is even more meaningless, since it almost never includes a specified duration.
Without knowing the upper and lower limits that are applied to a particular aspect of a cell's performance, it doesn't make any sense to speak a bunch of gobbledygook about standard deviation and whatnot. It has been nearly 16 years since I worked for a cell manufacturer (this was back when NiMH was high-tech stuff), but at that time we did indeed see a lot of variation in the performance of individual cells. The cells were binned through a testing and sorting process (as is also common in the semiconductor industry), and lower-bin cells were indeed sold - but at a lower price and with full disclosure. I don't see a problem with that. With the increased sophistication of modern manufacturing, I would expect less of that to be going on nowadays.
BTW - performance characteristics of a complex assembly rarely follow a standard Gaussian distribution.
The real problem, in my mind, is that there are no industry-accepted standards for establishing the maximum discharge rate of a cell or pack. Manufacturers might rate a cell based upon near-100% SOC and a cutoff voltage around 2.0-2.5V/cell, while customers would like to think that it is done at a very low SOC and a cutoff of ~3V/cell. And the whole "burst" thing is even more meaningless, since it almost never includes a specified duration.
#9
Tech Elite
iTrader: (85)
That was informative. I wont "" that. lol
But it makes sense. Ive never spent the extra cash on the 50C and 70C packs. I try to stay away from 20C if possable thou. But If Im buying 4000mAh then I try to stay with 30C and if its 5000 or above then 20-25C seems to have always been good for me. Never any hot lipos or anything
But it makes sense. Ive never spent the extra cash on the 50C and 70C packs. I try to stay away from 20C if possable thou. But If Im buying 4000mAh then I try to stay with 30C and if its 5000 or above then 20-25C seems to have always been good for me. Never any hot lipos or anything
#11
Tech Adept
I post my mind about real "C" rating for modern LiPo batteries in this tread
http://www.rctech.net/forum/radio-el...c-ratings.html
With this equation I can get very close results for "old" style batteries and almost never similar to close results for modern "high" discharge batteries. No more than 30-40C.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/radio-el...c-ratings.html
With this equation I can get very close results for "old" style batteries and almost never similar to close results for modern "high" discharge batteries. No more than 30-40C.
#12
Super Moderator
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
Posts: 15,473
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
why does the Giles name sound familiar, and not related to batts or lipos????
magnets maybe??
magnets maybe??