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Old 10-28-2011, 03:30 PM   #6826
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Our thoughts are with you in these times.
Truly sad, when will these natural disasters stop.. First Japan now Thailand????
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:38 AM   #6827
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Here's some info that many of us may find helpful. It's the latest firmware versions and what they do.

readme.txt
2011-10-11


CAR_ESC_readme.txt
2011-10-11
Car ESC Database 111011
The Firmware database of the car ESC has been updated to the latest Version 111008.
1. Two new firmwares named "V3.0_110930_MOD" and "V3.0_110930_STOCK: are available for the following ESC's:
XERUN-120A (V2.0), XERUN-60A (V2.0), XERUN-120A (V2.1), XERUN-60A (V2.1), Xtreme STOCK
a) "V3.0_110930_MOD" is an improved firmware version based on "V3.0_110119_MOD"; the new firmware has been updated to improve the fault tolerance of the signal quality of the Hall sensors within the sensor board of brushless motors.
The old firmware was found to be too sensitive to any small change of the sensor signal, in turn causing the ESC to frequently switch its running mode from sensored to sensorless. The new firmware is not as sensitive, so the ESC can still operate in sensored mode even if the signal has slight changes in amplitude from small error, that might eventuate this will help Mod motors which have very large current flows which cause the signal within the sensor board of the motor to change frequently causing unnecessary errors .
b) "V3.0_110930_STOCK" is a new version based on "V3.0_110211_STOCK", same improvements as above.
2. New firmware named "V3_508_No Timing" is also available for the JUSTOCK ESC. The improvements are as follows:
a) The "Maximum Brake Force" has been increased from 4 options to 8 options for finer adjustment.
b) The new firmware has also been improved for fault tolerance of the signal quality of the Hall sensors within the sensor board of the brushless sensored motors.
3. New firmware named 111011_2R is available for the following ESC's:
XERUN-80A, XERUN-150A, XERUN-SCT Pro
a) "111011_2R" firmware improves the fault tolerance of the signal quality of the Hall sensors within the sensor board of brushless motors.
b) The over-heat protection threshold for the ESC is increased to more than 110 Celsius degree, and the over-heat protection function for XERUN-SCT-Pro ESC can be disabled now. (In the old version firmware, the over-heat protection is permanently activated and cannot be disabled by user)
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:08 AM   #6828
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Is the 508 no timing available for the extreme stock?

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Old 10-30-2011, 10:09 AM   #6829
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Originally Posted by chinaman View Post
Is the 508 no timing available for the extreme stock?

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Yes. I've got it loaded on the extreme in my F1. Just need to connect it to the USB link, and then flash the V3_508.

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Old 10-30-2011, 01:05 PM   #6830
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Firstly it's so sad for a great city like Bangkok to be so afflicted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatusboy View Post
Ive been a Hobbywing fan for a few years now, started with the Xerun 80A in my 1/8 buggies and have since expanded it to include all my Aircraft ESC. Absolutely love the HW stuff!

I'm getting back into 1/12 racing and I will only be racing 17.5 blinky mode. I'm looking to get the XERUN-120A 1s ESC. I havent read every post in this thread (yet), but from what I have read;

- That ESC doesnt need a booster or Rx pack?
- To run in Blinky mode I need to download the 508(?) firmware?

Is that still true, or does the most current build have a blinky mode?

What is everyones opinion of the 1s ESC?

Thanks in advance
1s does not need a booster as has the 6v circuitry built in and is auto switching 1s / 2s.

Now.......

Cat among the pigeons time ..........

Can we have a bit of chatter on here about advanced timing on ESC's. Ran 21.5 today and car was quick but uber hot. A guy in our class was running a brushed 27T motor and finished 5th, this got me to thinking about maybe we are looking at Boost and timing with a little too much dependency.

At 1600kv the 21.5 HW has a rev range of 0 to 13440 RPM, in unboosted mode (508 et al) it seems that the unboosted guys are running FDR's around the 3.0 to 3.5 range. Now I wondered if we took an FDR around 3.0 to 4.0 with a start RPM of 12,000 RPM, (for example) with maybe 20 points of timing at 250ACC, followed by maybe 20 points of turbo (slope 18) could this be a way of melding the grunt of unboosted with a limited amount of timing, someone who is very good with the setting of these ESC's suggested today that using all 64points and starting too low in the rev range does not give any benefit other than vast amounts of heat.

I wondered in the absence of anything new to talk about we could have some ideas from the members here to see if this was something people thought was doable.

To help me out with my plan to start trying this out from unboosted and adding small amounts of timing could some kind soul post an FDR for a largish track for 21.5 unboosted.

Am adding thoughts as I have them, can anybody give a clue as to the torque characteristics of HW motors, ie 13.5 17.5 21.5, an actual power figure would also be useful, as the KV rating only gives a guideline for RPM's a wattage figure would give a useful idea of the actual usable power but a measurement of unboosted torque would be ideal. I truly believe that we are approaching the boosted softwares in the wrong way and maybe it is time for a rethink, please help me out and discuss opinions as more information is obviously better than none.

Thanks in advance guys

Cherry
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Last edited by cherry2blost; 10-30-2011 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 10-30-2011, 04:31 PM   #6831
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Hi All

I recently got an extreme stock and have been running in 13.5 with the settings below. However I keep having problems with it going sensorless on me? I've tried it with two different motors and two different sensor leads and it just randomly does it.

1: Mode = Forward/Brake
2: Drag Brake = 0%
3: Voltage Protection = 3.2V/cell
4: DRRS Punch = 9 (max)
5: Brake Force = 100%
6: Reverse Force = 25%
7: Initial Brake = 0%
8: Neutral Range = 6%
9: Boost Timing = 64
10: Turbo Slope = 18
11: Overheat Protection = Enabled
12: Turbo Timing = 0
13: Start RPM = 5000
14: Turbo Delay = 0.3sec
15: Timing ACC = 350


It can be flat out down the straight or in the infield it seems completely random? The two motors I've run have been a Novak Ballistic and a Corally pro red,

I've been running 211 and now 930 and it seems no different?

I had to change back to my old speedo today as since getting the hobbywing i've gone sensorless in about 40-50% of heats and finals?

I know it's not the motors etc as they run fine no my old speedo. A number of my friends run the hobbywing and never have these problems? Have I just got an iffy speedo?

I'd like to keep running the speedo and it is very nice when it works ;-) So any help would be greatfully recieved.

Ade
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:28 PM   #6832
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I used to run around 2.98FDR unboosted 21.5 to try and keep up with the boosted 21.5s. I couldnt keep up out of corners but just managed similar top speeds on a reasonably open outdoor track.

We're about to run a 6hr enduro using 21.5 and blinky mode. I was thinking of an FDR of about 4 - 4.5 to keep temps down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherry2blost View Post
Firstly it's so sad for a great city like Bangkok to be so afflicted.



1s does not need a booster as has the 6v circuitry built in and is auto switching 1s / 2s.

Now.......

Cat among the pigeons time ..........

Can we have a bit of chatter on here about advanced timing on ESC's. Ran 21.5 today and car was quick but uber hot. A guy in our class was running a brushed 27T motor and finished 5th, this got me to thinking about maybe we are looking at Boost and timing with a little too much dependency.

At 1600kv the 21.5 HW has a rev range of 0 to 13440 RPM, in unboosted mode (508 et al) it seems that the unboosted guys are running FDR's around the 3.0 to 3.5 range. Now I wondered if we took an FDR around 3.0 to 4.0 with a start RPM of 12,000 RPM, (for example) with maybe 20 points of timing at 250ACC, followed by maybe 20 points of turbo (slope 18) could this be a way of melding the grunt of unboosted with a limited amount of timing, someone who is very good with the setting of these ESC's suggested today that using all 64points and starting too low in the rev range does not give any benefit other than vast amounts of heat.

I wondered in the absence of anything new to talk about we could have some ideas from the members here to see if this was something people thought was doable.

To help me out with my plan to start trying this out from unboosted and adding small amounts of timing could some kind soul post an FDR for a largish track for 21.5 unboosted.

Am adding thoughts as I have them, can anybody give a clue as to the torque characteristics of HW motors, ie 13.5 17.5 21.5, an actual power figure would also be useful, as the KV rating only gives a guideline for RPM's a wattage figure would give a useful idea of the actual usable power but a measurement of unboosted torque would be ideal. I truly believe that we are approaching the boosted softwares in the wrong way and maybe it is time for a rethink, please help me out and discuss opinions as more information is obviously better than none.

Thanks in advance guys

Cherry
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:46 PM   #6833
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is there any real world performance difference between the XERUN 120A ver.2.0 and ver 2.1 ecs' ?

can firmware updates put both esc on par?

considering on picking up a combo esc + card +motor from hobbypartz and would like some feedback on quality and performance of the esc.

thanks!
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:03 AM   #6834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craypot View Post
I used to run around 2.98FDR unboosted 21.5 to try and keep up with the boosted 21.5s. I couldnt keep up out of corners but just managed similar top speeds on a reasonably open outdoor track.

We're about to run a 6hr enduro using 21.5 and blinky mode. I was thinking of an FDR of about 4 - 4.5 to keep temps down.
Thanks buddy, was guessing it's be around the 3.0 mark. What sort of temps were you seeing at the 2.98 FDR were they sky high? I take it that at 2.98FDR you were lacking corner punch I guess a 4.0 - 4.5 FDR will give you that extra 'technical' speed, having been racing against 13.5 Boosted with a 21.5 I have found that (Boosted massively) at 6.0 FDR I lose places toward the end of the straight but am able to more than make up the losses in the technical parts due to the increased controlabilty of the 21.5T, being able to take tighter, smoother more planned lines. This is my point in the experimentation here geared right you said that unboosted you could keep up on the straight at 2.98FDR so this seems to support my assetion that using the grunt of the motor may indeed work, running down to 4.0 would obviously gain back that infield punch but allowing a small amount of timing on top of the inbuilt power (hopefully) will be a happy medium. This is the idea behind a start RPM of 10-12000 RPM as the motor wil be at (almost) maximum RPM .

Here is the setings I intend to begin this experiment with:-

FDR 4.0
Boost Start RPM 11000
Boost 15
Turbo 24
Slope 24
Delay 0.0
ACC 200

Boost will kick in at 11000
Add 3000 RPM from Boost
The Turbo then kicks in at 14,000 RPM.

Currently am starting at 4000 RPM using 250ACC, for the first 3 minutes or so is no slower than anybody else (Graupner included) but after 3 minutes as the heat shoots up the car slows somewhat and then becomes very 'bogged down'.

FDR 6.1
Boost start 4000
Boost 40
Turbo 24
Slope 24
Delay 0.0
Acc 250
Temps mid 80's C


Boost start 4000 Boost phase additional 10,000 RPM so Turbo again kicks in at 14,000 RPM.

Any comments please???
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:09 AM   #6835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ade_7 View Post
Hi All

I recently got an extreme stock and have been running in 13.5 with the settings below. However I keep having problems with it going sensorless on me? I've tried it with two different motors and two different sensor leads and it just randomly does it.

1: Mode = Forward/Brake
2: Drag Brake = 0%
3: Voltage Protection = 3.2V/cell
4: DRRS Punch = 9 (max)
5: Brake Force = 100%
6: Reverse Force = 25%
7: Initial Brake = 0%
8: Neutral Range = 6%
9: Boost Timing = 64
10: Turbo Slope = 18
11: Overheat Protection = Enabled
12: Turbo Timing = 0
13: Start RPM = 5000
14: Turbo Delay = 0.3sec
15: Timing ACC = 350


It can be flat out down the straight or in the infield it seems completely random? The two motors I've run have been a Novak Ballistic and a Corally pro red,

I've been running 211 and now 930 and it seems no different?

I had to change back to my old speedo today as since getting the hobbywing i've gone sensorless in about 40-50% of heats and finals?

I know it's not the motors etc as they run fine no my old speedo. A number of my friends run the hobbywing and never have these problems? Have I just got an iffy speedo?

I'd like to keep running the speedo and it is very nice when it works ;-) So any help would be greatfully recieved.

Ade
Can you give some idea as to FDR? Also using 64 points of boost, I would think that you are overboosting those motors as they already have quite a lot of internal timing already. It may be thermalling or the LiPo cutoff is kicking in or the thermal circuit is activating. Try easing off the settings go out again with 30 boost and 24 Turbo and see if it is any slower and if the ESC still misbehaves.
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www.racersinexile.org.uk | 'Official Certified' UK/Euro Importer for the Hobbywing XERUN Series Equipment We ship the world !!!| Quote code 'cherry' for 10% discount on our Web Store.
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:42 AM   #6836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherry2blost View Post
Can you give some idea as to FDR? Also using 64 points of boost, I would think that you are overboosting those motors as they already have quite a lot of internal timing already. It may be thermalling or the LiPo cutoff is kicking in or the thermal circuit is activating. Try easing off the settings go out again with 30 boost and 24 Turbo and see if it is any slower and if the ESC still misbehaves.
The biggest problem people seem to have with this speedy is they read about the 64 steps for boost and turbo and think they have to run all 64 steps to be fast when that is rarely the case.

Can't wait for this V3 to hurry up.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:41 AM   #6837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherry2blost View Post
Can you give some idea as to FDR? Also using 64 points of boost, I would think that you are overboosting those motors as they already have quite a lot of internal timing already. It may be thermalling or the LiPo cutoff is kicking in or the thermal circuit is activating. Try easing off the settings go out again with 30 boost and 24 Turbo and see if it is any slower and if the ESC still misbehaves.
Thanks for taking the time to respond :-)

I was running at the EWS round 1 (i think you may have been there but didn't find that out until almost the end of the meeting? )

I was geared at 7.8 then down to 8.2. Highest temps I saw on the Novak was 42c. I ran the practice and was ok but felt a little overgeared so that's when I went down to 8.2 and then the round 1 qually went sensorless. As it had happened a number of times before I just swapped back to my old speedie. The train of thought running boost and no turbo is to keep the smooth feel of the speedo?

I know another three or four people who run almost identical setups and haven't had any problems which is why I'm surprised I've been having all these issues?

Ade

Last edited by ade_7; 10-31-2011 at 03:49 AM. Reason: added more thoughts.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:53 AM   #6838
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Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
The biggest problem people seem to have with this speedy is they read about the 64 steps for boost and turbo and think they have to run all 64 steps to be fast when that is rarely the case.

Can't wait for this V3 to hurry up.
It's either max or off, the choice is yours XD
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:22 AM   #6839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherry2blost View Post
This is the idea behind a start RPM of 10-12000 RPM as the motor wil be at (almost) maximum RPM
Hi,
I run Mod motors mainly, but made some test on 10.5 unboosted and boosted, and it makes me think also that you have to take care of how the amount of timing is added, mainly when it is added.
Too much timing in the start and the car have less acceleration than without boost (or boost starting later) and temp is higher. It gives you an exponential acceleration, but because of a lack of torque.
Same thing if you make it start at a standard point, but make it used quickly (lower value of boost acc), it can make the car slower in acceleration.

Makes sense since adding fix timing increases speed, but decreases torque. Now, with variable timing, if the motor doens't have enough speed before adding timing, it's like overgearing, and here comes the heat.


HW products, and the ones they make for SP and Orion have a max Boost Start of 15000 RPM, which could be not high enough for Mod, and maybe for 10.5 in some cases.
I think they made lots of tests, but I would like to be able to make some tests with more choice on the Boost Start RPM.
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Old 10-31-2011, 09:11 AM   #6840
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any news about V3.. when will be release?
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