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Old 09-06-2011, 01:38 PM   #6181
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Originally Posted by FunkyDunky View Post
Mark don't do it!! I tried the D3 21.5 in the lads car at the weekend and it went bang again after 2 runs. Trying to get them as fast as a Corally just can't happen thats the second one this year, and it was running in the 75 degree range.

As for settings I will only even run the Graupner (Not GM) motor on the same settings as a Corally it is such a unique motor that setting can't be used in the same way as you do in 13.5

I will update my website later this week with my HW set up from Colchester for both the Corally and the D3 before it went bang! just remember to temp it is the golden rule!!

My settings are nothing like those used on a Corally, Toby ran my settings with his GM and was very pleased with the result
Still getting to grips with 21.5 and the racing is so close in lap times, but I am sure with a bit of practice at WLRC I can get it going a bit quicker.

But like the 13.5 the Corally is a totally different motor, and does appear to be quicker due it's construction, hence it not being BRCA legal. The only downside seems to be the construction, lots seem to shed the rotor!!!!
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Old 09-06-2011, 02:29 PM   #6182
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Mark don't do it!! I tried the D3 21.5 in the lads car at the weekend and it went bang again after 2 runs. Trying to get them as fast as a Corally just can't happen thats the second one this year, and it was running in the 75 degree range.

As for settings I will only even run the Graupner (Not GM) motor on the same settings as a Corally it is such a unique motor that setting can't be used in the same way as you do in 13.5

I will update my website later this week with my HW set up from Colchester for both the Corally and the D3 before it went bang! just remember to temp it is the golden rule!!

As promised ESC settings now updated on my website, I used the same settings on the D3 as Hobbywing however I turned the ACC to 350
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Old 09-06-2011, 02:40 PM   #6183
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my dads used the d3 already and its pig slow , do u no how much timing is on the motor as kit?

the week after the stcc i ran my dads car with (21.5) both hw and corraly motors and i got within a second from the time set on the stcc meeting using the corraly but with the h/w i was bout 5 seconds slower and the motor got hot 105c i think.
I'm not sure but trawling through the web 2 tick + is the standard setting to start on.

Unfortunately the STCC TC4 class has turned into a single motor class with the Corally being the one to run. Think it may have spoiled it a bit as its always nice to be able to choose what motors to run.
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Old 09-06-2011, 02:45 PM   #6184
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Cheers, I'll give it a go
I tried the higher RPM setting at this weekend and it didn't work, seemed the motor was getting to the boost earlier enough. Gearing down may have helped but up against other motors it was already loosing out. I would still suggest and ACC start point of 150 but start the RPM at 3000-4000 then alter your gear for temp and speed

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Old 09-06-2011, 02:51 PM   #6185
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Originally Posted by Barry_Hughes View Post
My settings are nothing like those used on a Corally, Toby ran my settings with his GM and was very pleased with the result
Still getting to grips with 21.5 and the racing is so close in lap times, but I am sure with a bit of practice at WLRC I can get it going a bit quicker.

But like the 13.5 the Corally is a totally different motor, and does appear to be quicker due it's construction, hence it not being BRCA legal. The only downside seems to be the construction, lots seem to shed the rotor!!!!
My mistake by GM I thought you meant the Graupner (Black/Silver) motor like the Corally. I expect the GM would be comparable to the D3 as a start point.


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Old 09-06-2011, 07:23 PM   #6186
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You'll know your overtiming as the motor will stutter and won't work...

Simply put, 60 of real timing is about the limit any motor will sustain. End of.
If anyone states their putting 80 in they are talking crap, as the motor would be going backwards...

Don't believe me? Take an old brushed motor that you can adjust timing on, and whilst running it on a few volts, rotate the endbell and see what happens when you get to 90. The motor will start to stutter and become effectively confused as to it's position.

The same thing happens in brushless motors when running high motor timing advance coupled with high esc timing levels. The sensors will struggle to find the correct position of the rotor, making it stutter, or in the worse case, go backwards! Oh, and all that adds heat!

As most motors tend to need a bit of advance to run smoothly, (Around 20-30 for most motors, although I believe the X12's have nearer 40 built in), adding more than 30 of added timing brings them into the realms of diminishing returns... eventually to the point of just adding heat for less power.

Having said that, I haven't got into the fact that the timing naturally retards as you rev up a motor though, so adding timing does help...and why boosted profiles are more efficent than blinky. But, at the end of the day it's all a balancing act for best performance.

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Yes very true at one stage the motor will null and then run in reverse about 65-70 degrees of true timing /Angle
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Old 09-07-2011, 01:54 AM   #6187
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Yes very true at one stage the motor will null and then run in reverse about 65-70 degrees of true timing /Angle
So are the degrees of adjustment on the extreme etc true degrees as you say?
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:20 AM   #6188
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So are the degrees of adjustment on the extreme etc true degrees as you say?
no they are steps as what degree of each step i dont really know how michael has configured it .But i will find out the true value of the steps .
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:29 AM   #6189
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Originally Posted by FunkyDunky View Post
I tried the higher RPM setting at this weekend and it didn't work, seemed the motor was getting to the boost earlier enough. Gearing down may have helped but up against other motors it was already loosing out. I would still suggest and ACC start point of 150 but start the RPM at 3000-4000 then alter your gear for temp and speed

Ill try that, but it does look like I'm going to have to go back to the Graupner/Corally motor.....and a handfull of spare rotors! Its a shame I was really hoping the HW would be competitive
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:10 AM   #6190
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So are the degrees of adjustment on the extreme etc true degrees as you say?
He didn't say that.

If you "overtime" a motor, I don't think it will immediately start running backwards, because it has already a forward movement. It will slow down, and generate a lot of heat....
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:12 AM   #6191
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Ill try that, but it does look like I'm going to have to go back to the Graupner/Corally motor.....and a handfull of spare rotors! Its a shame I was really hoping the HW would be competitive
Try to let the HW motor rev., so go some teeth down on your pinion...
Or did you already try that?
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:30 AM   #6192
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Originally Posted by M7H View Post
Try to let the HW motor rev., so go some teeth down on your pinion...
Or did you already try that?
Tried that, runs out of puff on the straights. Gear up and it looses on the infield. The performance is comparable with the Tekin, GM and SPv3 but I'm up against Graupners and Corallys in the STCC
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:32 AM   #6193
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He didn't say that.

If you "overtime" a motor, I don't think it will immediately start running backwards, because it has already a forward movement. It will slow down, and generate a lot of heat....
Not sure who that was aimed at but, ive known for some time that this will happen to a motor and have worked on the safe side of a max of 55 degrees total timing on a motor. To be able to work that out and to play near to that figure it would be helpfull to know how many actual degrees of timing 211 gives you. Come to that i would like the same info on my fave 518
Does anyone know how many degrees the GM 10.5 runs. Im working on 30?
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:40 AM   #6194
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Tried that, runs out of puff on the straights. Gear up and it looses on the infield. The performance is comparable with the Tekin, GM and SPv3 but I'm up against Graupners and Corallys in the STCC
It's ironic that the organiser of that series likes to go on about how blinky ESC's will only cause a motor war, yet he's happy to allow a motor war in his own series since the "outlaw" motor he sells himself has such a big advantage over BRCA-legal motors!
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:53 AM   #6195
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It's ironic that the organiser of that series likes to go on about how blinky ESC's will only cause a motor war, yet he's happy to allow a motor war in his own series since the "outlaw" motor he sells himself has such a big advantage over BRCA-legal motors!
I've got no problem if everyone ends up running the same motor, more like spec racing. This year is a learning curve with 21.5 being the first time this class has run. It could have easily turned out that another motor could have been the one to have
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