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Old 04-02-2011, 04:49 PM   #4576
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Originally Posted by steliosh View Post
Just my findings, over hundreds of hours of bashing, racing, practicing...
Note to yourself, A 5.5 motor will punish a battery way more than even a full boost 13.5 will. Your comparison especially comparing a good orion pack which you say got 300 charges is very flawed for that reason. Your cheap batteries, and i would call your Ip batteries and but especially your soft case turnigy cheap and would not last 10 charges being smashed by a 5.5.


Angelos point is Good, Fast and Cheap.

Cheap batteries are always going to be cheap.
This means they may be fast and not good or good and not fast.
YOU can only choose 2.

Back on topic. We run the next round of our champs today and it will be a stacked field of boosted 17.5's with the majority running very similar settings on 211. This is going to be Good!!!
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Old 04-02-2011, 05:28 PM   #4577
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I see contradiction:

"the cel will only be dropped and never be recovered is when you over discharge the battery during discharge on load or discharging the battery with the charger and going below its cutoff which is manufactured in the cell"

then you say:

"battery swells its because of contamination of chemistry caused from factory during manufacture with no controlled environment and not over discharging or over charging"

and then you correct yourself by:

"Cells will drop only when allowed to drop below the built in cutoff off of the cell and for the accurate cutoff you will have to ask the manufacturer of your battery as all manufacturers vary "
Yes probably went to far and double my info but these are my findings only and the factorys information thats all no one elses

contamination swells the battery

dead cells are caused by over discharging .

Im sure the factory which is government owned and has decades of experience in chem engineering knows more than what we do .right?

I was asked to do the tests as i dont really trust anyone in the battery business just to prove it to myself thats all.

People buy whatever they want and thats there decision all i was doing was giving out some info from my own tests and the factory information thats all .

Cheap Batterys are cheap batterys it's simple .
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Old 04-02-2011, 06:56 PM   #4578
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Yes probably went to far and double my info but these are my findings only and the factorys information thats all no one elses
...
Must have been fun doing all that bench testing

I think another factor that seems to affect the batteries is temperature change whilst being fully charged. I know you mentioned that you left them in your office for a length of time. I'm assuming that there wasn't that great a temperature change being inside a fairly controlled environment.

Would have been interesting if you had've left them outside (perhaps in a shed or something like that) both in China and Oz and seen what happened then..

It's nice to see that some people are trying to dispell a lot of the urban myths that are running around though. Thanks.
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Old 04-02-2011, 11:24 PM   #4579
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Must have been fun doing all that bench testing

I think another factor that seems to affect the batteries is temperature change whilst being fully charged. I know you mentioned that you left them in your office for a length of time. I'm assuming that there wasn't that great a temperature change being inside a fairly controlled environment.

Would have been interesting if you had've left them outside (perhaps in a shed or something like that) both in China and Oz and seen what happened then..

It's nice to see that some people are trying to dispell a lot of the urban myths that are running around though. Thanks.

Yes it took a long time and it was extremely boring to be honest but i guess it had to be done .I am going to run the test you have mentioned in a different environment especially in oz .

The testing at the factory is done using a temp controlled altitude chamber which the temp can be varied and at the max of 140-150 degree f 60-65 degree c .But in oz i dont have such equipment so lets see what we come up with .

thanks for the idea.
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Old 04-02-2011, 11:35 PM   #4580
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I might not always be correct sometimes way off sometimes close but thats were you guys come to prove me wrong and by you doing that we find the correct method or answer to any issue by working together .

When i was in the Aviation industry you had to work as a team and by the vendors repair/instruction manual it just couldnt come off the top of your head or you would have alot of dead passengers .so we worked in crews and share the info to come to the conclusion and thats what we need to do here is share experiences with our hobbywing product .

Anyone who does experiments/tests i welcome to post there info this way everyone learns .At the moment we are one of the most viewed threads on rc tech so lets keep it up with sharing info .

Post photos of your cars /your equipment your setups keep the info coming even what you guys want from hobbywing this is a thread for all users to make noise the more noise the more that will be done etc

keep up the good work guys

regards Angelo
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Old 04-03-2011, 12:01 AM   #4581
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Just my findings, over hundreds of hours of bashing, racing, practicing...
Findings to do with LiPo are always interesting, I know plenty of guys with cheap Hobbyking packs that frankly just work, no huge puffing no horrible short life, no lacking in power, they do just what they are made to do.

Stuff I notice with my IP and Venom batteries, they can swell just a little on heavy use, but more than anything this seems purely related to amp/voltage draw, which interestingly can be controlled by the punch control on the esc.

I tested the theory recently, the more punch the warmer the battery gets and will swell just a little bit more, low enough punch and it won't swell at all, or even get warm, a lot of that to me shows what may shorten my batteries life.

While on a simular subject, club race the other night, low numbers, running some nitro and electric in one class, also ran a combined 15min final, figured I'd see just how much run time I could get, 5000mah battery with 10.5T zero timing on the old 2.0 60amp Xerun, made the full 15mins.
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:54 AM   #4582
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One other point of interest: The 3000/40C's "seem" to offer more punch than either the 3300/30C or the 3600/30C, at the cost of duration, obviously! I use these mainly in my 1/5 rc bike, running a 13.5T motor last year and since October, a 17.5T...

A 40c should give more punch than 30c the c rating is about the amount amps the cell can discharge, the higher the c rating the more current it will allow at any given point.

A further note there is normally a c rating and a burst c rating always go by the std c rating, the burst rate is a peak and not a constant rating
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Old 04-03-2011, 06:44 AM   #4583
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turbo slope only increment for turbo timing? or will added to timing boost to ?

how to calculate end rpm ? is it end rpm use on SW 211 before turbo activate?
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Old 04-03-2011, 01:38 PM   #4584
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turbo slope only increment for turbo timing? or will added to timing boost to ?

how to calculate end rpm ? is it end rpm use on SW 211 before turbo activate?

END RPM=Start RPM + (unit/Deg * Boost Level)

So for my Pancar (1/12)

Endrpm = 1000 + (100rpm per Unit * 50 )
Endrpm = 6000

I would not include the turbo as part of your end RPM, as the turbo may or maynot be present, depending on how long you have had your throttle at max.
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:54 PM   #4585
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Cheap esc are cheap esc, it's simple.

Cheap esc but great quality (e.g. Hobbywing), so I assume there are cheap batteries but great quality as well.
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:01 PM   #4586
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Someone at my track bought 4 very cheap 2s lipo's from hobbyking or something. they were 17 euro per pack. Well gues what..........they were shit . He could not even drive 4 minutes with a 13.5t as they were dropping power so fast to crawling speed. 68 euro's down the drain. He could have bought 1 good pack for that with better selected cells and durability then all the 4 packs together

Hi roy
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:07 PM   #4587
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Someone at my track bought 4 very cheap 2s lipo's from hobbyking or something. they were 17 euro per pack. Well gues what..........they were shit . He could not even drive 4 minutes with a 13.5t as they were dropping power so fast to crawling speed. 68 euro's down the drain. He could have bought 1 good pack for that with better selected cells and durability then all the 4 packs together

Hi roy
What a idiot...
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:09 PM   #4588
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What a idiot...
haha...see you on friday
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Old 04-03-2011, 04:28 PM   #4589
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Originally Posted by rccartips View Post
Cheap esc are cheap esc, it's simple.

Cheap esc but great quality (e.g. Hobbywing), so I assume there are cheap batteries but great quality as well.
Your statement is true yes but the only reason why hobbywing keeps the price low is because of cheap labour and because they choose to or else believe me the price would be more to the likes of tekin and lrp .There are cheap esc's out there that claim can run low turn motors say from hobbyking made by skyrc and ztw and trust me they cant they burn out very quickly.

As for the batterys out of hobbyking or any other low cost entity yes they are cheap but very inconsistant thats why they offer 30 days warranty and please dont return cycle life about 30-50cycles max and if lucky a little more .They are very inconsistant and you might be the lucky one to receive a good pack say 20 pieces out of 100 are good but the rest a very low grade it all depends on manufacture i know as im in those factories around dongguan china every 6 weeks and believe me the quality is very low and the testing procedures are none excistant would never pass united nations recommendations.The current drop is not linear but very sudden .

some racers do think that the puffing/swelling is caused by excessive current draw say a not so true c rating in a way yes and in a way no .A good quality battery will not allow anymore current to be drawn from the pack if it's grid is manufactured properly see were alot of poor packs dont care about the grid and the packs do swell as they are used as an uncontrolled device (give me all i want )were the top pack will give you its max it can and no more .contamination 90% c rating 10%

anyway back to hobbywing .
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Old 04-03-2011, 04:49 PM   #4590
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I am running an LRP x 12 stock spec, and use 211 firware. I am getting confused here.

I need the car to 'rip' out of the corners more, but am confused as to what to do to achieve this, without losing mid-top end
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