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Old 03-28-2011, 07:38 AM   #4426
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Cheers Ed, I'll drop the DRRS a couple. I've heard that setting is similar to the 'Feel' on the LRP/Nosram units. I'll post complete setup later on.

Motor's fine, even reaching that temp.
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Old 03-28-2011, 07:43 AM   #4427
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Any chance we could get a "esc setups page" like they do at speed passion, just with the hobbywing settings?
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Old 03-28-2011, 07:47 AM   #4428
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+1

For posting setups and explanations only
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:49 AM   #4429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
see my above post... the X12 is a special case amongst motors... can take that sort of temp all day long.
I've still got the one I ran all last year, and distinctly remember it coming off the track at Cotswolds 115C every single run... still didn't fade, and still runs strong!
how is this x12 can be hold higher temp , and what is the limit?
is it caused of the different coatings?
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:56 AM   #4430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digga View Post
Hi Guys

I've just bought an Xtreme Stock ESC & 2 in 1 card for my sons Tamiya 416 that we race here in the UK. The motor is a Nosram 13.5

I would like some advice/tips on setup and usage. I've tried to go through this forum post, but TBH, it's a bit too long

I've got the software from HW and updated the ESC, so I now have USB v1.63, and ESC V3.0_110119STOCK. Is this the best or most up to date software?

What would be a good starting point for the settings running on an outdoor tarmac track (Eastbourne) that is fairly small and technical?
V3.0_211STOCK is the lastest software that you should be running.

IN the pdf manual on the HW website their are some recommendation for gearing 13.5 should be in the 4-5 range I believe. With the Nosram motor, start with your settings REALLY low, that motor has built in timing.

DDRS 7
Boost 30
Turbo 14
Turbo Slope 14/.1
Boost slope 350rpm/deg
Start RPM 6000

Run the car for acouple of minutes and then check the temp of the motor. You dont want the outside of the motor to get hotter then 125F (about 50C).

That should get you going, if you find the motor is still cool to the touch, then bring the boost up to 50, and add some more gear.

Shawn.
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:01 AM   #4431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
see my above post... the X12 is a special case amongst motors... can take that sort of temp all day long.
I've still got the one I ran all last year, and distinctly remember it coming off the track at Cotswolds 115C every single run... still didn't fade, and still runs strong!
I disagree ... any engine should not exceed 80C, if you want to keep the maximum performance, I personally saw a rotor a rotor x12 unhitched ...
Also for GM the temperature limit is 100C, same as LRP, but personally I advise you not to ever get there.
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:32 AM   #4432
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oh Agno,
and many one who missed point

The cause of the Limit temp, involved many reason material resist,

the most is not the Rotor, the rotor of Brushless is unlike the Brushed, Brushless Rotor Mag, are well enough in such hi temp's,

but the Most Problem is from Coil Coating's and stator coating/Plastics
which will melt in such temp's.
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:35 AM   #4433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGNO View Post
I disagree ... any engine should not exceed 80C, if you want to keep the maximum performance, I personally saw a rotor a rotor x12 unhitched ...
Also for GM the temperature limit is 100C, same as LRP, but personally I advise you not to ever get there.
No offence, you can disagree, but I personally ran X12's all last year. I had two 10.5's that lasted the whole season, and the only reason I brought a second was because I thought the rotor had possibly gone soft (it hadn't) due to the extra high temps at the aforementioned race meeting. I'm not saying 115 was what I intended to run (I was usually targeting 90-95), but it didn't have any long lasting effects on the motor's performance. I still have that motor now, and bet just as fast as any others out there.

Never had any problem with rotors, and if anything on the X12's only, the higher temp is fine for getting it to run at it's best. Make it too cool, and you loose performance. Trust me when I say I've had a whole load of experience running that motor, and am pretty sure on how to get the best out of them

I will say I was very sceptical about those motors when I first ran them last year, couldn't get the temps down below 80 without losing a lot of performance. Part of that was speedo setup, and part learning how the motor works best. X12, four dot insert, let it rev, and just ignore the higher temps.

The X12 is simply built differently, and uses different materials compared to most other motors. In some respects, it's a stock motor built like a mod, for want of a better expression!
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:39 AM   #4434
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has anyone got a setup for 17.5 short course truck ?

What software you using.
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:41 AM   #4435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn68z View Post
V3.0_211STOCK is the lastest software that you should be running.

IN the pdf manual on the HW website their are some recommendation for gearing 13.5 should be in the 4-5 range I believe. With the Nosram motor, start with your settings REALLY low, that motor has built in timing.

DDRS 7
Boost 30
Turbo 14
Turbo Slope 14/.1
Boost slope 350rpm/deg
Start RPM 6000

Run the car for acouple of minutes and then check the temp of the motor. You dont want the outside of the motor to get hotter then 125F (about 50C).

That should get you going, if you find the motor is still cool to the touch, then bring the boost up to 50, and add some more gear.

Shawn.
That sounds pretty good for a starting setup. FDR maybe nearer 6, as I ran the 10.5's at 7.3FDR. Trying to remember eastbourne, I don't think you need to be maxing out the timing settings, maybe more boost on a longer ramp would help for the tighter infield. Then tweak the turbo to gain back the straight line. If I remember rightly, it's quite tight onto the straight, so a short delay could help to get it kicking in quicker, and possibly also after the first turn.
Also make sure to put the four dot insert in (should be standard out the box setting) when setting the motor timing.

HiH
Ed
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:02 AM   #4436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashrevolution View Post
oh Agno,
and many one who missed point

The cause of the Limit temp, involved many reason material resist,

the most is not the Rotor, the rotor of Brushless is unlike the Brushed, Brushless Rotor Mag, are well enough in such hi temp's,

but the Most Problem is from Coil Coating's and stator coating/Plastics
which will melt in such temp's.
Of course the biggest problem of a brushless is the loss of coating of the wire with the heat and so there is irreversible damage, but already 80C the magnetic rotor loses its effectiveness, the motor still works fine, but there is a loss of acceleration torque and reduction in braking efficiency, if you want maximum efficiency we have to replace the rotor.
I think it's useless to try Firmware with some electronic degrees more when you do not have efficient 100% engine.
I try to keep the temperature of my engine always less than 80C and frankly no one was quicker than me on the straight, despite its engine exceeded the 100C ...
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Last edited by AGNO; 03-28-2011 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:17 AM   #4437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
No offence, you can disagree, but I personally ran X12's all last year. I had two 10.5's that lasted the whole season, and the only reason I brought a second was because I thought the rotor had possibly gone soft (it hadn't) due to the extra high temps at the aforementioned race meeting. I'm not saying 115 was what I intended to run (I was usually targeting 90-95), but it didn't have any long lasting effects on the motor's performance. I still have that motor now, and bet just as fast as any others out there.

Never had any problem with rotors, and if anything on the X12's only, the higher temp is fine for getting it to run at it's best. Make it too cool, and you loose performance. Trust me when I say I've had a whole load of experience running that motor, and am pretty sure on how to get the best out of them

I will say I was very sceptical about those motors when I first ran them last year, couldn't get the temps down below 80 without losing a lot of performance. Part of that was speedo setup, and part learning how the motor works best. X12, four dot insert, let it rev, and just ignore the higher temps.

The X12 is simply built differently, and uses different materials compared to most other motors. In some respects, it's a stock motor built like a mod, for want of a better expression!
I know the X12 is a great engine, I tried it, excellent construction and performance, although difficult to setup with the firmware variable advance.
I'm just not agree on the declaration of the manufacturer's safety, I personally think that 100C are too many ...
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:36 AM   #4438
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You are right Agno about the temp's

But the thing is not Rotor, it's a Stators.
friend.

and Today We are using Permanent Sintered Rotor Magnet's,
The temp to run is higher than the Old Brushed Magnet's.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:15 PM   #4439
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Hi guys, this is the setup I ran to get the x12 to ridiculous temps;

X12 10.5 geared at 7.57

4 - 6
9 - 42
10 -18
12 - 2
13 - 10000
14 - 0.3
15 - 450
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:16 PM   #4440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashrevolution View Post
You are right Agno about the temp's

But the thing is not Rotor, it's a Stators.
friend.

and Today We are using Permanent Sintered Rotor Magnet's,
The temp to run is higher than the Old Brushed Magnet's.
These are recommended in the instructions Novak sintered rotor:

- The temperature of the rotor's magnetic material is rated up to 200 degrees C (392 degrees F). The operating temperature of the motor should never rise above 71 degrees C (160 degrees F).-

Of course 80C to which I referred were outside, we must always consider that inside the degrees at least doubled, so when we have 100C outside, inside we definitely over 200C, too many for me, for any kind of magnet.
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