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Old 03-17-2011, 08:33 PM   #4051
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Default RPM Log is necessary

i see no problem using Stock Firmware on Mod motor's
the Problem is if you don't know How much The Mod motor can Handle Timings,

And i see the latest Mod Firmware is the 119 MOD
and "the Problem is Hobbywing Hasn't release the Mod Manual" for this one.

Take a lesson Guy's if you run Stock 11.5T your max Boost timing is 42
recommendation, but if you run 13.5T your max Boost timing is 54

This is the reason why Hobbywing recommend different timing on Different motor. what ever Mod or Stock motor you are using.

and read again the RPM Start Recommendation on Stock are also Different Between 11.5T and 13.5T,

Take a lesson Guys you need RPM Log, to do it correctly,
"Different type motor Different RPM! start"
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:09 PM   #4052
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Originally Posted by flashrevolution View Post
i see no problem using Stock Firmware on Mod motor's
the Problem is if you don't know How much The Mod motor can Handle Timings,

And i see the latest Mod Firmware is the 119 MOD
and "the Problem is Hobbywing Hasn't release the Mod Manual" for this one.

Take a lesson Guy's if you run Stock 11.5T your max Boost timing is 42
recommendation, but if you run 13.5T your max Boost timing is 54

This is the reason why Hobbywing recommend different timing on Different motor. what ever Mod or Stock motor you are using.

and read again the RPM Start Recommendation on Stock are also Different Between 11.5T and 13.5T,

Take a lesson Guys you need RPM Log, to do it correctly,
"Different type motor Different RPM! start"

I think most people in this thread have learned alot about brushless motors and the ESC that control them.

The question I have for you is what do you think you will gain by having an RPM log? And how will the RPM log tell you when to start adding boost?

Shawn.
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:14 PM   #4053
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Originally Posted by Shawn68z View Post
I think most people in this thread have learned alot about brushless motors and the ESC that control them.

The question I have for you is what do you think you will gain by having an RPM log? And how will the RPM log tell you when to start adding boost?

Shawn.
Forget the log F/W.

Get a Sanwa MT-4!!
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:15 PM   #4054
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quick question guys, are the Units equal timing wise between 119 and 310?

so for example, 45 boost on 119 is same amount as 45 boost on 310?

cheers, jack
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:42 PM   #4055
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Originally Posted by cheapskate.brok View Post
Forget the log F/W.

Get a Sanwa MT-4!!
Sanwa Taping RPM Telemetry will not working well compares RPM log Esc Firmware.

The Perfect RPM Log, is The best way work's with it's esc Read rpm
, because it was designed for Settings on it's ESC not on your Transmitter.
your Transmitter Taping will not have same rpm value with what ESC Read.
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:58 PM   #4056
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Originally Posted by Shawn68z View Post
I think most people in this thread have learned alot about brushless motors and the ESC that control them.

The question I have for you is what do you think you will gain by having an RPM log? And how will the RPM log tell you when to start adding boost?

Shawn.
The RPM Log is designed to help the Settings,
like your thinking the Max RPM Data, also will do,

Flash might already learned that,

By looking on real RPM you will see how your car/rpm reach it's maximum,
example if you run zero timing, you will see the range of your Rpm, on any kind of motor you got, and then simply define the start rpm (boost) first, at where you would like to put.
and then add more timing, ex 1 degree, then under load you will see
how much your car's Increase it's Speed RPM according to rpm Data/Log.

if your rpm increase significant you can add more timing as you wish,
but until there is no significant rpm increment, you may not add more
timing, because it will make's your Motor/Esc get's more temps raised.

plus if you can read the temp data/log directly it will help much more.

But everything is starting from rpm based.

and remember different FDR also result different significant rpm increment.

All of those will also effectively to decide which Acceleration you want
50rpm/timing or 900rpm/timing.

With the Rpm data/Log you will also decide Perfect start rpm (not too early).

This is how racing work's
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:07 PM   #4057
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OK, Irgo and I are going to join forces on this.

Reason for this, is a racer and I were discussing how to fine tune our cars in relation to how much boost to bring in at what RPM. Then we decided we didnt know the max RPM the car was hitting! We think its about 11000 rpm on the straight away (around 42km/h)


Cheers,
Shawn.
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Originally Posted by Shawn68z View Post
Max RPM is needed mainly because I want to keep my RPM under 45K. Novak warns against revving their motors above 50000 rpm as the rotor may explode. RUnning 1S this obviously isnt a problem, but when running 2S Mod motors, it would be nice to know.

Shawn.

Ps. My rollout is 85mm. :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn68z View Post
I think most people in this thread have learned alot about brushless motors and the ESC that control them.

The question I have for you is what do you think you will gain by having an RPM log? And how will the RPM log tell you when to start adding boost?

Shawn.
each motor has its own rpm limit so that esc cant control the max rpm... share your finding if any related to max rpm... i wonder that rpm logger can give us the actual max rpm... i think only dyno facility can show us where is the best power vs rpm will be... mine, fdr 6.9 was running colder than 7.4... eventhough fdr 7.4 as fast as 6.9 with similar total timing...
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:24 PM   #4058
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Originally Posted by zamrioo2 View Post
each motor has its own rpm limit so that esc cant control the max rpm... share your finding if any related to max rpm... i wonder that rpm logger can give us the actual max rpm... i think only dyno facility can show us where is the best power vs rpm will be... mine, fdr 6.9 was running colder than 7.4... eventhough fdr 7.4 as fast as 6.9 with similar total timing...
I'm sorry zamrioo, but that's incorrect,
you can limit rpm,
My old Novak can limit Brushless rpm, no matter any motor i used.
this meant if i am using faster motor, the esc remains to defined rpm.

that's why i tell you previously, the best to know rpm is by it's esc it self.
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:54 PM   #4059
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Originally Posted by zamrioo2 View Post
... i think only dyno facility can show us where is the best power vs rpm will be...

Thats exactly where I was going with this. No one has actually explained how a RPM logger will let me know where to put the Boost Start setting. A dyno will help you establish how to make the most amount of power from a ESC/Motor combination by changing all the settings and doing multiple dyno pulls. It can provide great information that will assist you in selecting gearing for your car. Settings can also flatten out the torque curve, making the car easier to drive.

However, an RPM logger is not like a dyno, in that wheel spin, the weight of the car, and other factors such as driving style,and traffic can wreck havoc on the information, making the logger useless.

Shawn.
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Old 03-17-2011, 11:49 PM   #4060
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Originally Posted by Shawn68z View Post
Thats exactly where I was going with this. No one has actually explained how a RPM logger will let me know where to put the Boost Start setting. A dyno will help you establish how to make the most amount of power from a ESC/Motor combination by changing all the settings and doing multiple dyno pulls. It can provide great information that will assist you in selecting gearing for your car. Settings can also flatten out the torque curve, making the car easier to drive.

However, an RPM logger is not like a dyno, in that wheel spin, the weight of the car, and other factors such as driving style,and traffic can wreck havoc on the information, making the logger useless.

Shawn.
The only way you'll know is by a bit of intution, and knowing some other data (i.e. gearing, and speed of the car at a certain point on track).

My technique is to figure (via a combination of calculation, on-track feel, and guesstimation ) out what rpm the motor is turning at the slowest corner on the track, and then from there adjust the boost start rpm to be a little higher. This minimises heat build up, and relies on the natural torque of the motor (less timing=more torque) to get out of the slowest corner as best as possible. Too much timing, too low down in the rev range will be a) slow and b) heat the motor up. Given I don't run less than 10.5t, my start rpm is normally quite high (8 - 10k), with the gearing set right. As far as I'm concerned, thats a lot more critical to get right to overall lap time than figuring out what max speed I'm doing at the end of the straight... there's normally a lot more corners on a track than straights!

An RPM logger is not so helpful on it's own unless you have a full time vs rpm trace for a run, so at the very least you can look at the trace and figure out what the lowest (and highest) rpm's are, and then set from there....However, that won't happen with the ESC because of the limitations with on board memory!

I do agree though, for true understanding of what a motor is doing with certain timing parameters, a dyno is required... there's just no other way to relate settings in a consistent manner otherwise.
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Last edited by TryHard; 03-18-2011 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:07 AM   #4061
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nice respond guys

as shawn mention about the Max rpm data,
this one will not consume a lots of board memory,
for more michael knows better.

and there is more about whats it's doing on our hobbywing esc
with today firmware,
it knows esc temps, motor temps (which is disabled for racing reason to reach out limits), Voltage, rpm, and might be the amps, because the DRRS and SuperCharge (Turbo) is involved with the Current limit,timing pos.

the sensor is there and that's what these esc doing, every race.

it's good idea as shawn said, shown reading rpm on it's LCD.

another great thing, we can know when Boost doing the Advanced,
the esc will tell us at which timing the present max rpm achieved.


ex : "20000rpm @20"
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:24 AM   #4062
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nice respond guys

as shawn mention about the Max rpm data,
this one will not consume a lots of board memory,
for more michael knows better.

and there is more about whats it's doing on our hobbywing esc
with today firmware,
it knows esc temps, motor temps (which is disabled for racing reason to reach out limits), Voltage, rpm, and might be the amps, because the DRRS and SuperCharge (Turbo) is involved with the Current limit,timing pos.

the sensor is there and that's what these esc doing, every race.

it's good idea as shawn said, shown reading rpm on it's LCD.

another great thing, we can know when Boost doing the Advanced,
the esc will tell us at which timing the present max rpm achieved.


ex : "20000rpm @20"
ok, how about this... the esc knows the rpm in real time, that's not in doubt.
But your asking for a log, which means the data has to be stored somewhere... if you want useful data (I still don't see the use of a max rpm log, as the boost/turbo should have long kicked in by then!), you need to log a whole run... which is going to be a lot of data.

Having said that... ESC with built in MicroSD port anyone?
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:27 AM   #4063
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quick question guys, are the Units equal timing wise between 119 and 310?

so for example, 45 boost on 119 is same amount as 45 boost on 310?

cheers, jack
anyone?
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:51 AM   #4064
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anyone?
pretty sure they are the same. Haven't run 211 yet though.
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:51 AM   #4065
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ok, how about this... the esc knows the rpm in real time, that's not in doubt.
But your asking for a log, which means the data has to be stored somewhere... if you want useful data (I still don't see the use of a max rpm log, as the boost/turbo should have long kicked in by then!), you need to log a whole run... which is going to be a lot of data.

Having said that... ESC with built in MicroSD port anyone?
no, Max Rpm Data is not as much as RPM Log space required...
anyway if you know some ESC are using the last minutes Log, will also
saved more space,
but what we need is to do setting's right...

So, Max Rpm @which timing presented will be very much possible.

and again can't compared with dyno, because ESC Rpm Data is better
information, as on Every Corner, Climb, Temp of track,etc will result,
different max rpm, which Dyno/Brushless analyzer will failed.

So obviously ESC rpm Log/Data is the best way we can get.



and about rpm when doing the boost/turbo, the way they work's,
you may need to read carefully my previous post, the steps to do it.
it is as simple as common setting's, safer, easier, and better performance to get.


better knows than Guessing.
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