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Old 03-10-2011, 03:47 PM   #3781
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I may have missed it if someone has posted it but what are the differences between 0119 and 0213.
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:00 PM   #3782
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Originally Posted by 2wdrive View Post
looking at the HW website i see version 310 in the dl section.... what is that?
Thats the one containing 110211... 110310 means 2011, March, the 10th, the date of the rar file.... Funny to see, it doesn't contain 110213...
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:16 PM   #3783
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Originally Posted by irgo View Post
Very good Mattias, i know sweeden people like to be scientific.
degrees is degrees, i could not teach student's with aliases.
it's better to use 0.5deg increment's rather than aliases.
You must be joking. Degrees are not degrees.

a position on a scale of intensity or amount or quality; "a moderate grade of intelligence"; "a high level of care is required"; "it is all a matter of degree"

a specific identifiable position in a continuum or series or especially in a process; "a remarkable degree of frankness"; "at what stage are the social sciences?"

academic degree: an award conferred by a college or university signifying that the recipient has satisfactorily completed a course of study; "he earned his degree at Princeton summa cum laude"

a measure for arcs and angles; "there are 360 degrees in a circle"
the highest power of a term or variable

a unit of temperature on a specified scale; "the game was played in spite of the 40-degree temperature"

the seriousness of something (e.g., a burn or crime); "murder in the second degree"; "a second degree burn"


If you were scientific you would use radians not degrees to measure the boost of an electric combo.

Don't for a moment think that because people speak here in basic terms that they don't possess PhD's in Mathematics, Physics, Electrical Engineering and so on.

Intelligent people are those that can be understood by people of all levels rather than those that speak in jargon to big note themselves.

Cheers.
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Old 03-10-2011, 06:04 PM   #3784
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Originally Posted by Rocking Donkey View Post
There is a very clear practical technological reason for having 64 steps. One of the HobbyWing guys alluded to it a few days ago.

The HobbyWing speedo has onboard memory. The advanced timing programs are becoming more complicated than the speed controls were ever designed for. This means that every Bit of information counts.

Now, memory is just a string of 0's and 1's, and therefore you must make numbers out of these 0's and 1's. To have an on/off switch there are two possible states so you can use a single Bit to describe it. to make a number that is up to 2^n you need n Bits. This means that you need 1 Bit to have a choice of 2 options, 2 Bits to have a choice of 4 options, 3 Bits to have a choice of 8 options...6 Bits to have up to 64 options.

This 6 bit address limit is the reason that you have 64 steps/options for timing. To change it to % you need at least 100 options requiring an extra Bit. This is the reason for having 64 steps. As this is still beta software I can completely understand why they use this number, and maybe for the release software they could use % or something similar with a courser step size. While it is beta is is good to have the software as tunable as possible.

What I do agree with is that it would be nice to have a conversion to actual degrees of timing, if only to compare different software versions.

Hope this clears things up a little

Ben
Good explanation that... makes perfect sense (don't really have too good a grasp on memory bits etc).
Out of interest, if you were to keep the 64steps, would it affect the amount of memory used, if you just changed the labelling to a more complex method (i.e. %)? Or is the limit on bit's the actual number of steps used?

Given the apparent confusion (not sure why... it's 64steps, as has been said by a number of HW representatives), as an idea for the marking system, how about 2% steps... 0-64 = 0-128%... (50 steps being 100%).

1.5% steps doesn't work as you end up with 0-64 = 0-96%... and you just know people would moan, "where's my last 4%!"
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Old 03-10-2011, 06:23 PM   #3785
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Originally Posted by zamrioo2 View Post
http://www.rctech.net/forum/8770742-post3671.html
hey matt... i believe that HW change from degrees to step is to get as lower temperature as it could... as i mentioned at earlier post, 119 could reach at least 5'c lower than 1224 with the same speed... for me who running 10.5t at 7.4v, i'll not turning to 1224 once i run 119... cant post 211 review as i dont have chance to test it yet... but 211 got good revise from our group interm of low, mid n top speed compare to 1224 and 119...

Changing from steps to degrees doest make the motor cooler, it was done to allow more finer adjustments.

Shawn.
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Old 03-10-2011, 06:30 PM   #3786
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Originally Posted by Rocking Donkey View Post
There is a very clear practical technological reason for having 64 steps. One of the HobbyWing guys alluded to it a few days ago.

The HobbyWing speedo has onboard memory. The advanced timing programs are becoming more complicated than the speed controls were ever designed for. This means that every Bit of information counts.

Now, memory is just a string of 0's and 1's, and therefore you must make numbers out of these 0's and 1's. To have an on/off switch there are two possible states so you can use a single Bit to describe it. to make a number that is up to 2^n you need n Bits. This means that you need 1 Bit to have a choice of 2 options, 2 Bits to have a choice of 4 options, 3 Bits to have a choice of 8 options...6 Bits to have up to 64 options.

This 6 bit address limit is the reason that you have 64 steps/options for timing. To change it to % you need at least 100 options requiring an extra Bit. This is the reason for having 64 steps. As this is still beta software I can completely understand why they use this number, and maybe for the release software they could use % or something similar with a courser step size. While it is beta is is good to have the software as tunable as possible.

What I do agree with is that it would be nice to have a conversion to actual degrees of timing, if only to compare different software versions.

Hope this clears things up a little

Ben

If I wrote my microcontroller in this fashion I would have been fired. The bit addressing you are describing is used in hardware design to address external chips, not the way you would use the memory inside the microcontroller. Space is limited in a microcontroller, but by using 1 byte of ram you could have upto 255 steps if you wish.
Most likely 64 is just easier for the math calculations, where 100 percent is a pain in the butt when the microcontroller doesnt have an FPU. (Multiplication and division are clock intensive operations. )

In the worse case scenerio, HW has used look up tables for each of the step values, that would be a major memory hog.

Cheers,
Shawn.


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Old 03-10-2011, 07:24 PM   #3787
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Originally Posted by snabbgas View Post
Well then it would be just as smart to make the boost start rpm in percent wouldn't it?
Instead of 1000-15000rpm you could just go 0-100% because no one could ever be interested in knowing what speed the timing is started to beeing added or?

Sorry but i don't agree here, degrees are degrees and they are universal.
All the previuos softwares have been in degrees and i for one really like the idea that 5 degrees on the endbell equals 5degrees in the software!

It's a completely different ballgame in the case of for example the Punch setting or the brake. You cannot meashure it in any good way so here % or steps or whatever is good.

And unfortunately it isn't as easy as putting more timing in always makes more power.
It's a case of putting exactly the right amount of timing in at the right point as more timing at low rpm can make less torque hence less power.

That beeing said. The hardware and software are truly awesome for the price and at this point i would not considering anything else!

Thank you Hobbywing but please bring back the degrees in the upcoming softwares!!!

At the very least provide info on how many actual degrees of timing the new 211-213 softwares have so i can calculate how many degrees 1 step represents!

/Mattias
Mattias, RPM can help you to calculate your speed, which is very clear to the player. But the total timing software can provide is out of our players' knowledge and maybe the tech secret. And I don't think you can equal the endbell timing degree to software degree when you are setting your motor, it's different on the result and performance.

Another fact is from our test, we still can find the difference performance when 1 of 64 steps increase or decrease in the best setting range. That's important for serious drivers to race.

Fortunately , michael will soon release the comparison chart on the boost and turbo settings of new software and old one(518stock). Please wait for a moment and check. Forget the universal degree and remember it is a number.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:39 PM   #3788
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Originally Posted by Shawn68z View Post
If I wrote my microcontroller in this fashion I would have been fired. The bit addressing you are describing is used in hardware design to address external chips, not the way you would use the memory inside the microcontroller. Space is limited in a microcontroller, but by using 1 byte of ram you could have upto 255 steps if you wish.
Most likely 64 is just easier for the math calculations, where 100 percent is a pain in the butt when the microcontroller doesnt have an FPU. (Multiplication and division are clock intensive operations. )

In the worse case scenerio, HW has used look up tables for each of the step values, that would be a major memory hog.

Cheers,
Shawn.
Shawn, think it why TEKIN needs the PC to set the parameter and you will realize something about this problem. But it's really out of the topic here.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:39 PM   #3789
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Changing from steps to degrees doest make the motor cooler, it was done to allow more finer adjustments.

Shawn.
finer adjustments will end with finer motor temp... dont u agree...?
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:40 PM   #3790
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Default Angle of Timing.

i like every opinion here about timing degree..

but every time we returned to the Brushed motor i just can't explain student's similarities with Brushless Motor,
Because Classic Brushed Motor Doesn't have percentage for it's
timing.

So timing angle degrees, is much more easier to learn for new driver's in the simplest way.

Another way ,is when Showing Brushless endbell, and changing the angle of timing in degree (physical Timing) is just incomparable with percentage or aliases. (this way required another explanation).

so i don't want to make confuse, timing angle degrees is timing angle degree.

The only make's many of you confuse is 64 number of timing angle degrees, that we are talking about.

if a soft timing change is designed to get Cooler by fining More adjustable,
decimal is a better answer. ex: 0.5 --> 1.5Degrees, and so on.

please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:49 PM   #3791
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Shawn, think it why TEKIN needs the PC to set the parameter and you will realize something about this problem. But it's really out of the topic here.
sizheng... i wonder why tekin user dont question so much like HW user... but i like this thread...
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:10 PM   #3792
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:13 PM   #3793
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Shawn, think it why TEKIN needs the PC to set the parameter and you will realize something about this problem. But it's really out of the topic here.
I know, I know. Ill try to play nice. Just cant stand it when incorrect information gets passed around. The internet used to be better when it was ArpaNet.


Shawn.

Last edited by Shawn68z; 03-10-2011 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:15 PM   #3794
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Default Timing angle degree adjustment related to LCD Programmer

Angelo, talk about the timing angle adjustment degree,
there is other makes us to conclude that adjusting using LCD is not as easy as using PC Inteface.

as we see the PC Interface have abilities to adjust (-) Decrease (+) increase
the timing angle Boost and Turbo.

but on LCD (until the latest Firmware LCD) all we can do is only (+) increase it's timing, and that cause us to roll forward until the timing get's back to 0.

Maybe Michael can make the LCD Programming to allow to decrease and increase the timing ?
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:21 PM   #3795
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Originally Posted by zamrioo2 View Post
finer adjustments will end with finer motor temp... dont u agree...?
Yeah, so you can decide if you want to fry your motor at 100deg C or 100.5deg C. Good try, but I am not biting on that one.

If you are riding the temperature edge that close, then just a bump in room temperature would also cause the motor to overheat. I do like the ability to fine tune it to the smallest amount, but under most circumstancies finding the absolute maximum setup becomes dyno-racing, and does not always translate to on track performance.


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