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Old 02-16-2011, 05:16 PM   #3166
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
Ummm, despite what you think there...adding timing low down will only take away torque, not increase it!
It comes back to the points made a while ago, that the key point for setting boost is, IMO, the rpm the motor will see on the slowest corner of the track... taking your settings, and assuming an FDR of 5.0FDR (I've no idea what to gear a 17.5 at, so taking a punt)... and your starting the boost ramp at 1.5mph!

I very very much doubt your going that slow around the track at any point, so all your doing is giving the motor timing when it's not needed... i.e. at the bottom of the rev-range when you want the torque! That's probably why the motor feels dead out the corners.

I would seriously look at raising that boost start rpm, say more towards 5000.

My second point... your using 60deg of boost, with a ramp of 750rpm/, right?
Well, I can 100% tell you now, you are not using all that boost, unless you can get a 17.5 to go over 60mph. With those settings, I'd be suprised if your using more than 35 of the boost timing, simply as motor won't ever get to the maximum rpm.

Suffice to say a, umm, reassessment of your settings might be in order! Bringing the start rpm up, and the ramp rate shorter will only give more power. You'll gain more torque at the bottom, and more top end as there will be more timing in use in the right place on the rev range.

Again, here's a link to the speed chart I've been using... THard.co.uk Speedo setting chart, you can pretty easily see the difference by playing around with the numbers.

HiH
Ed

I think you have got it wrong. There is a perfect timing for any motor at a certain RPM. It has become very obvious that the SP motors need +10 on the motor to make really good horsepower and torque. I am yet to see an SP motor go good with 0 degrees on the endbell. They do run cooler like that but much slower too... less timing doesn't mean more torque nescesarily, it all depends on how much you already have on there and how much it can handle + what gear ratio you have. Higher FDR means you can have more timing.

Mike
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:14 PM   #3167
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Any new update software before TITC ..?
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:57 PM   #3168
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Originally Posted by 2wdrive View Post
Sorry, irgo could be right but after one of his last comments above i doubt about certian claims he makes. I would like to see something more scientific then just free reving a motor and then by the sound claim that timing comes in at 1000 rpm when in fact you set it at 5000rpm. (as an example)
very much scientific method i used, but that's depend angelo and michael
if they want to improved this bug cases.

i am afraid what syndrome feel on track was near this bug.

for cherry, i am not talking about request esc rpm log firmware yet.

i can prove it how it works, but only if angelo or hobbywingers need this.
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:02 PM   #3169
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Okay, I see where this is going. Back to the Tekin. Have fun denying bug reports.
don't my friend,
your input is very critical.

let's hope Angelo and Michael would pay attention on this one.
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:03 PM   #3170
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Default Calibrating Hobbywing ESC

Picked up the 60A V2 ESC and Lcd program card. When I try to calibrate the Esc and radio the esc just goes to full throttle. The red led continues to blink after i release the set button. I'm running a Dx3s and have tried three different receivers. Any ideas?
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:45 PM   #3171
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Thanks irgo that worked. I alreadry tried to reload the software to fix it, now the Esc has lost all it's "punch" Which software version should I download?
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:32 PM   #3172
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Default CALIBRATE SPEKTRUM RADIOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by pettyeagles View Post
Picked up the 60A V2 ESC and Lcd program card. When I try to calibrate the Esc and radio the esc just goes to full throttle. The red led continues to blink after i release the set button. I'm running a Dx3s and have tried three different receivers. Any ideas?
As noted in previous posts. Depending on the ESC used a neutral value of a greater value is normally required.
It seems that the DX3R and HOBBYWING ESC's have the same issue. A setting greater than 6% is required on "ITEM" #8. Possibly 12% would be the best point to calibrate from.
A point to this that TEKIN RS ESC's had the same issue with SPEKTRUM radios and until a value greater than 10% was set calibration was not possible.

Well this is my 2 cents of info.

Cheers

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P.S. I have a driver with a 120 1S ESC in 21.5 running a Futaba 2PL with not a skerrick of an issue and he is doing very well !
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:36 PM   #3173
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Originally Posted by venom54 View Post
As noted in previous posts. Depending on the ESC used a neutral value of a greater value is normally required.
It seems that the DX3R and HOBBYWING ESC's have the same issue. A setting greater than 6% is required on "ITEM" #8. Possibly 12% would be the best point to calibrate from.
A point to this that TEKIN RS ESC's had the same issue with SPEKTRUM radios and until a value greater than 10% was set calibration was not possible.
Interesting you mention that, I had mine set at 6% cause I wanted the most sensitive throttle, but have noticing some off-on throttle glitching weirdness, just went and redid my cal at 9% and it seems to have gone away.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:24 PM   #3174
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Originally Posted by ixlr8nz View Post
I think you have got it wrong. There is a perfect timing for any motor at a certain RPM. It has become very obvious that the SP motors need +10 on the motor to make really good horsepower and torque. I am yet to see an SP motor go good with 0 degrees on the endbell. They do run cooler like that but much slower too... less timing doesn't mean more torque nescesarily, it all depends on how much you already have on there and how much it can handle + what gear ratio you have. Higher FDR means you can have more timing.

Mike
Whilst I don't agree with the opening part of your post, I do agree with what you state at the end... it depends on what motor is being used.
Remember, timing on the endbell affects the whole rev range, not a specific part of it.

This come back to there not really being a "neutral" timing standard for motors... i.e. they all come with differing amounts of timing in-built.
Seems the SP motors require a little +ve from their neutral mark (when I ran over a year ago, only ran +5), whilst I know the X12 prefer to run with their "oooo" / -10 insert.
Going deeper, you say that the SP motor's don't produce good power with 0, and run cooler, well, without timed ESC's, you'd be gearing up up compensate... and thats a sure fire indication of there being more torque avaliable, if you follow. Torque and power are two different things...

Regards
Ed
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:05 PM   #3175
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Default Reading Boost start RPM

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Originally Posted by 2wdrive View Post
As you don't have a data logger how do you know that boost starts earlier then what your start rpm was set on? Can you be more specific how your experiment was setup and with what tools or equipment you made those tests? I am very curious how you did your tests.
free rev test. i am using external data Log.

and also i can do it without data Log to make sure the start goes correctly.


Let's Uncover it.


free rev test.
-------------------------------------------
did you know what kV does.
so let's get the Zero Timing on the fixed enbell (real Zero).
select any cells ex: 2S Lipo
the result multiply your Total Voltage to kV. so this is what your real rpm.

set the transmitter to Linear on everything and 100% only end point.
using Firmware ex : V3.0_110119Stock
Calibrate your ESC.
Set your Settings.
using Boost Timing/Advanced Dynamic Timing set to 0Deg
SuperCharge or Turbo Timing off.
Acceleration 50rpm/Deg
Set Boost Start/DMTS RPM at 15000rpm.

Test a Full Throotle, Then we got The max rev.

-----------------------------------------
change your Transmitter end point to 15%
on 13.5t if kvZero is 3100rpm then you will get 3441rpm
when full throttle at 15% endpoint.
remember you had no advanced timing yet here.
-----------------------------------------
try to enter esc Boost Timing/DMTS at 30Deg.
This would be safe since you are free revving on very limited amount.
test Full Throttle at 15% end point again, if you can listen the rpm changes,
difference before you are not using Boost Timing / DMTS 0Deg.
--------------------------------------

Now let's to The Near to what i found at 24% end Point
This should be max rev around 5500rpm if (0Deg) Timing.
because we set the Start at 15000rpm.

but what happened here is the Timing at around 5500rpm is already active.
and this is where the Boost RPM Start failed.
-------------------------------
you can listen and compares the 25% end point during Full Throttle
and switch (0Deg) and (30Deg) the difference of RPM,
simply you can hear it.
-----------------------
you can also try this
Set the Boost at (30)Deg 25%end point,
by disconnecting Sensor Harness result around (0) Deg. full throttle listen..
connect back and full throttle listen....

The result is that Timing Comes too early.

-----------------------

it supposed to start on 15000rpm, around 65%
and why is at around 5500rpm the Boost is started.
So it's just too early start boost.

-----------------------
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Last edited by irgo; 02-16-2011 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:44 PM   #3176
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Why is everybody so facinated with "zero" timing?
It's impractical and inefficient and your putting alot of effort on the very tiny components of your esc when the motors are designed with a start timing already.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:17 AM   #3177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irgo View Post
free rev test. i am using external data Log.

and also i can do it without data Log to make sure the start goes correctly.


Let's Uncover it.


free rev test.
-------------------------------------------
did you know what kV does.
so let's get the Zero Timing on the fixed enbell (real Zero).
select any cells ex: 2S Lipo
the result multiply your Total Voltage to kV. so this is what your real rpm.

set the transmitter to Linear on everything and 100% only end point.
using Firmware ex : V3.0_110119Stock
Calibrate your ESC.
Set your Settings.
using Boost Timing/Advanced Dynamic Timing set to 0Deg
SuperCharge or Turbo Timing off.
Acceleration 50rpm/Deg
Set Boost Start/DMTS RPM at 15000rpm.

Test a Full Throotle, Then we got The max rev.

-----------------------------------------
change your Transmitter end point to 15%
on 13.5t if kvZero is 3100rpm then you will get 3441rpm
when full throttle at 15% endpoint.
remember you had no advanced timing yet here.
-----------------------------------------
try to enter esc Boost Timing/DMTS at 30Deg.
This would be safe since you are free revving on very limited amount.
test Full Throttle at 15% end point again, if you can listen the rpm changes,
difference before you are not using Boost Timing / DMTS 0Deg.
--------------------------------------

Now let's to The Near to what i found at 24% end Point
This should be max rev around 5500rpm if (0Deg) Timing.
because we set the Start at 15000rpm.

but what happened here is the Timing at around 5500rpm is already active.
and this is where the Boost RPM Start failed.
-------------------------------
you can listen and compares the 25% end point during Full Throttle
and switch (0Deg) and (30Deg) the difference of RPM,
simply you can hear it.
-----------------------
you can also try this
Set the Boost at (30)Deg 25%end point,
by disconnecting Sensor Harness result around (0) Deg. full throttle listen..
connect back and full throttle listen....

The result is that Timing Comes too early.

-----------------------

it supposed to start on 15000rpm, around 65%
and why is at around 5500rpm the Boost is started.
So it's just too early start boost.

-----------------------
To throw a spanner in the works...

Set your Boost to 30Deg, then free rev at 100% throttle... I bet you get a load more rpm than the kv rating!

Sorry, unless your using proper logging software to determine what the RPM is, then it is simpl not a decent enough test for me.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:26 AM   #3178
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Default Calibration on HW ESC

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Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
Interesting you mention that, I had mine set at 6% cause I wanted the most sensitive throttle, but have noticing some off-on throttle glitching weirdness, just went and redid my cal at 9% and it seems to have gone away.
Stranger things have happened to the way to the Forum !

Strange but true.

Cheers

Ren
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:39 AM   #3179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2wdrive View Post
I blew a cap ones cause of wrong red and black wires connection. Didn't damage the tekin (as far as i know) it still runs great. I gues sometimes you have to have a little luck.
i wasnt the only one...and i wont be the last.....they are small and great esc's...but so are the Hobbywing extreme.....no laptop required also...
love the lcd program box.......

i now have the muchmore fleta v3.0 for if i ever want to run mod....with hobbywing software installed....never been more happy..
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:40 AM   #3180
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Originally Posted by Mitch-e4fs View Post
Why is everybody so facinated with "zero" timing?
Probably because we have zero spec classes all around the world now, which also makes people ask what timing is in the motors, depending on how much this zero spec stuff catches on, may depend on if the next generation of motors all also come with some fixed rate of timing also I guess.

Either that or a timing war in motors...
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