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Old 02-16-2011, 01:57 PM   #3151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
*grumpy mode on*

I would like to hear an official comment from Hobbywing on this.

If, as irgo suggests, the boost in the latest generation of software is NOT ramping from the chosen RPM level then there is little wonder that people are getting disappointing results on the bottom end!

With three revisions in a matter of weeks already, it seems that the new software has been rushed out. I didn't download it to be a beta tester...

*grumpy mode off*
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Originally Posted by irgo View Post
No Problem when using with today Batteries,
it will help the most when using Weak Sub-C.

although the Speed Passion Capacitor set would tell you if you accidentally placed the wrong Battery polarity before you switched on.
kind of protection prevention (blown).

unless you are using the Speed Passion 1.500.000uf
you will get the Weak Battery more kick, the effect is almost the same as the Burst.
Sorry, irgo could be right but after one of his last comments above i doubt about certian claims he makes. I would like to see something more scientific then just free reving a motor and then by the sound claim that timing comes in at 1000 rpm when in fact you set it at 5000rpm. (as an example)
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:58 PM   #3152
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Capacitors help against current ripples. When there is a dip the cap helps to keep the current up. All manufacturs say a cap is needed for a propper function of the esc. It cost nothing so i would not skimp leaving it off.
Sorry guys i have been away for a while and havent posted as of some serious family business as well as hobbywing business so for that i apologise.All good now .


A normal Operation of any high current ESC (known as controllers of any kind) may it be for radio model cars or even washing machines,dryers lamp dimmers or even audio amplifiers etc the pulse width modulation in which is used (a high speed switching function which could be in the 10s of khz so very fast)which inturn controls the function of the motor produces an alternating voltage waveform (or ripple) onto the battery voltage (Back emf). The amount of ripple current is dependent on the inductance of the motor(motor windings low turn motor will produce more ripple current thus more heat the faster the capacitor chargers and discharges).

A large power low ESR capacitor is used to smooth this ripple current out so that the average voltage available to the ESC is very close to the battery voltage(equalization of the voltage for the esc and what's available from the battery). This cap also in many cases will protect the esc from reverse polarity and damage to the electronics etc .A low temp in the cap will also produce slightly more rpm and punch (torque).

We also use trans supressors to reduce the risk of voltage spikes to the esc and also known as clamps and some high frequency decouplers to filter out any radio interference also known as (noise/Distortion).

Caps must be used no matter what and warranty will be void if not used .

Happy racing guys and ill see most of you on friday the 25th at the TITC thailand .

regards Angelo
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:08 PM   #3153
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Sorry, irgo could be right but after one of his last comments above i doubt about certian claims he makes. I would like to see something more scientific then just free reving a motor and then by the sound claim that timing comes in at 1000 rpm when in fact you set it at 5000rpm.
Ok guys alot of people are confused as alot of mis information is floating around by various sources so i will make it official with my statement about the software .

there is 3 types of firmware 108 1224 and the 119

now the 108 was for hobbywing motors and some others to run efficient without the issues of heat and break downs but the software had very large increments in options .

The 1224 was for motors like sp and other and that software had smaller increments in changes so it catered for those type of motors less timing less heat etc because dont forget some motors have different kv ratings and some are very huge to there winding.

Now michael implemented both firmware into the 119 which has much more adjustability and options is smaller increments to cater for all motors in one software package .

so when you made changes with the 1224 now you need to double the change you made to get the results of the 108 as the 119 has smaller increments in its algorithms like 1 degree and 1/2 degree changes .

you have to play around with the options to get the best results as all i can do is give you a starting point because temps in each country and cars and tracks are all different .

i hope i havent confused you guys .
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:20 PM   #3154
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on V3.0_110119Stock

when we set Boost start 15000rpm

it didn't work right at 15000rpm ?

how Hobbywing can explain that the Timing is too really start at that RPM ?


i have been testing it it's too early start..
Sorry to asked this Angelo...
can you explain ?
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:23 PM   #3155
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Well you managed to confused me
Are you saying that 1degree in the 1224 and 108 are 1 real degree but 1 degree in the 119 is actually f1/2 real degree?
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:34 PM   #3156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irgo View Post
on V3.0_110119Stock

when we set Boost start 15000rpm

it didn't work right at 15000rpm ?

how Hobbywing can explain that the Timing is too really start at that RPM ?


i have been testing it it's too early start..
Sorry to asked this Angelo...
can you explain ?
As you don't have a data logger how do you know that boost starts earlier then what your start rpm was set on? Can you be more specific how your experiment was setup and with what tools or equipment you made those tests? I am very curious how you did your tests.
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:52 PM   #3157
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I'll tell you how I did my test. I put the car on the track and it felt like it was boosting everywhere in the infield, and the motor came off at 200F with very mild settings and conservative gearing. When I picked it up off the ground and barely blipped the throttle, it sounded like it was immediately boosting. So I recalibrated the ESC/radio and it sounded "normal" when doing the throttle test. It also felt like you'd expect on the track. However, it reverted to its previous problems once the ESC was turned off/on.

It seems to me like the same problem irgo is describing.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:03 PM   #3158
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Sorry guys I have to step in here.............

we have tested at length over here (with an actually quite good driver(not me lol))

Irgo you will never be able to test the RPM of the motor without a machine to actually measure RPM's now we went old school and pulled out the old Shinwa motor dresser (antique) gave the dresser its' own power supply and tested up the motors, boost DOES step in where it is supposed to do but there are other parameters to take into consideration....namely GEARING we use 13.5T HW motors and gear them on the car at a FDR of between 7 and 7.5:1 on largeish indoor tracks, the boost needs to come in early (1000) and the ramp to be between 500 and 650, this gives masses of punch in the technical parts and then the turbo is useful for what is actually required (that bit 1/2 way down the straight).

Anyway back to the dresser.........we ran tests with no Boost (Justock) and recorded the results, very smooth rev band obviously ramping quite slowly..... we then ran some runs with varying levels of boost UPTO 30 degrees with no Turbo, so as not to blow the sensor board on the motor. We ran differing Start points and from what our antique dial was telling us (with digital timer) was that there was a noticable difference in the 'quickness' of the accelleration in the motor dependent on the start point for example at 10k RPM start motor was linear and similar in performance to the Justock settings (about 1/3 throttle) ( Unloaded) we heard the familiar 'tinking' noise as the timing switched in and the reading was about 10,200RPM (allowing for variance in the meter this is acceptable) same experiment run with the start point at 5000 same occurance but the reading was around 4900. this seems to point to the Boost start point being fairly correct (this was on my original well used XS ESC BTW)

We tried to do readings for the ramping of the boost but couldn't measure acurately enough without some really high end equipment which I am hoping to get hold of the use of from my Universities Electrical Engineering Department ( Actually hoping to get one of the Undergrads to do the tests for me)

But so far the results we have had seem to point to the Boost entry number being fairly accurate so far.......

BUT !!!!

Ran the same tests with same equipment on my old EXRUN 120 SD and we were unable to get the numbers to match was fluctuating quite badly, not sure if this is down to the age of my ESC or whether the uprated FETS in the newer ESC's really do make a difference with the massive boosts we are putting through them....but thats a game for another day.

back to gearing......... When we add timing ALL we are doing is trading Torque for Revs, so guys you need to make most use of those revs and gear it much higher than the 6's etc of the 518 FW closer to 7/7.5 etc just watch the temps as the motor can't be let over rev itself because that will generate heat just as badly as over gearing it.

To Irgo, I have the feeling this is just another method to get your own way with an RPM logger the SP guys have made it clear to you as have HW guys it isn't gonna happen in the near future as there isn't really a need for it as every race, nay every lap is different in a race meeting so the log will not help unless you are running exactly the same lines each lap etc, I doubt Spashett in his heyday even managed THAT feat
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:11 PM   #3159
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Okay, I see where this is going. Back to the Tekin. Have fun denying bug reports.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:11 PM   #3160
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+1 for Cherry2Blost..
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:20 PM   #3161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Okay, I see where this is going. Back to the Tekin. Have fun denying bug reports.
There may well be bugs that haven't been found yet but there is no denying it, as far as I remember EVERYBODY was hounding Angelo about when is the new software gonna be released constantly, it was released and updated fairly quickly.
BUT no one is asking you to be a BETA tester all you have to do is reprogram the ESC with FACTORY 518 and yay no issues, but this new FW is much much more complex than the older ones and we all now have to relearn all that we think we know and now adjust our settings accordingly, I know for a fact that the factory guys are listening the 0119 update is a case in point so please don't start a flame fest over this, HW is nothing like the other brand you mention, HW actually listen to the drivers and make changes, I bet that even now Michael and Angelo are scratching their heads re reading the C++ stuff and trying to see if they have missed something, that is something that the OTHER brand don't do. So cut the guys some slack, take Irgo with a HUGE pinch of salt and just rest assured that the HW guys WANT to make this ESC the best in the world WITH the input and comments from users like ourselves.

Please don't think I am niggling its' just these things can so easily get out of hand and before you know it the nay sayers will be whispering and sniggering about the 'supposed' shortcomings of the HW equipment.

Rock on Doods
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Last edited by cherry2blost; 02-16-2011 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Can't Type for Toffee !!! X2 OMG !!!
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:36 PM   #3162
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If you guys wanna do some real time testing then i use the novak (excuse my swearing) data logger which takes an accurate reading from the sensor lead.
Although i have had some issues with my hobbywing gear i am running the old 60amp version not the newer extreme so would expect it to play up so i will stick with the 518 until i have a newer extreme to try..... hint hint nudge nudge.
cherry(stuart) can you call me to arrange some testing of these and i can even post the data in a attachment. all you would need to do is download the software from the novak site and load in my test results
all i want is to be able to match the other guys running tekins and then let my driving do the rest
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:42 PM   #3163
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Good day, I would really need some advice on the hobbywing ESC

On june 3 till the 5th 2011 will be racing in a Rc events, all drivers must use the same ESC and motor of which is the Hobbywing, motor will be the Xerun 8.5T. My drive is a xray t2r pro ratio 1.9, steering servo Kropopo/ wheels Xceed 26mm 37shore /. I will be purchasing the ESC & motor shortly to do some testing before the race event.

Will be needing some advice from anyone to help me fine tune the motor and ESC for maximum performance. example software, firmware, lipo's 2 or 3cells
timing, gearings ect.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:49 PM   #3164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millbank View Post
If you guys wanna do some real time testing then i use the novak (excuse my swearing) data logger which takes an accurate reading from the sensor lead.
Although i have had some issues with my hobbywing gear i am running the old 60amp version not the newer extreme so would expect it to play up so i will stick with the 518 until i have a newer extreme to try..... hint hint nudge nudge.
cherry(stuart) can you call me to arrange some testing of these and i can even post the data in a attachment. all you would need to do is download the software from the novak site and load in my test results
all i want is to be able to match the other guys running tekins and then let my driving do the rest
Send it over you have my email matey, have the SW installed ready to go........ and a night of avoiding Maths marking to go through.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:54 PM   #3165
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I realize this is the on-road section however tomorrow I should get an Hobbywing XeRun 60A and Epic Duo 3 13.5T in the mail. This is going into an Ultima SCT and will be my first brushless setup. Question...what would be a good starting point for firmware and settings? I'm racing on a very small indoor hard packed track so bottom end is key.

Thanks for any help.

Jon Andrews.
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