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Old 02-14-2011, 03:39 PM   #3121
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Originally Posted by 2wdrive View Post
What were your other settings? The thing is that 1000 start rpm seems to be way too low for a 17.5t (2s lipo in a touringcar? you didn't mention what class). Also 60 boost? Was this just an experiment to see how far you could go before blowing up a motor? Not attacking your setup skills, just curious.
No i went for that to get a more linear power curve and the hobbywing motor will take 60 boost without over heating. (2s lipo in touring car)
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:07 PM   #3122
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Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
I have more or less the same feeling about 119. I certainly haven't found the driveability with it that I had with 518.

The very bottom end is dead. The midrange to turbo area is very fast, especially if you run 50 boost and the rest as turbo.

I was having a rough time at the CWIC over the weekend (I think you and I race at the same series?) and decided to take all the timing off the ESC and run a big pinion. The bottom end was a lot better although total power was naturally down which cost me.

If I had the time (and I'm not sure I do) I would approach the ESC setup from a different angle - big pinion to use the motors natural torque to get out of the corners, then smaller amounts of boost and turbo to get the top end without overheating the motor.

I run the SP 13.5 motor by the way.
These settings seem very specific for driver I found. I Qualified 4th Sunday and finished 4th overall in 13.5 at CWIC, been using various hobbywing software over the winter and I am loving the power of 119 over previous versions. But my profile is VERY VERY punchy - another driver I know tried it and found it didnt suit him. But I found my car defo not lacking speed or infield grunt - was only me that let it down. It was the black car if you were watching the finals / Quallis

This is what I ran Sunday:
HobbyWing: 110119Stock

DRRS: 9
Brakes: 100%
reverse force: 25%
Boost timing: 26 degrees
Turbo Slope: 18 degrees
Turbo timing: 34 degrees
Start rpm: 3000
Turbo Delay: 0.2s
Timing ACC: 300

FDR: 7.25
Trinity Duo3 motor

I started at 7.6 (from previous round) but the faster track meant i had to adjust a few settings as it was boosting to much on the infield

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Old 02-14-2011, 04:11 PM   #3123
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Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
I have more or less the same feeling about 119. I certainly haven't found the driveability with it that I had with 518.

The very bottom end is dead. The midrange to turbo area is very fast, especially if you run 50 boost and the rest as turbo.

I was having a rough time at the CWIC over the weekend (I think you and I race at the same series?) and decided to take all the timing off the ESC and run a big pinion. The bottom end was a lot better although total power was naturally down which cost me.

If I had the time (and I'm not sure I do) I would approach the ESC setup from a different angle - big pinion to use the motors natural torque to get out of the corners, then smaller amounts of boost and turbo to get the top end without overheating the motor.

I run the SP 13.5 motor by the way.
I think the key with the SP motors is to make sure you use +10 on the motor. I have found that to make a big difference on the 13.5 and 7.5 motors so far. It seems you have to have a certain amount of timing on the motor to get the car moving fast before the boost takes over.

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Old 02-14-2011, 04:51 PM   #3124
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Default new things - new problems?

It's funny what sosidge says - coz I've heard the same from a couple of people that have tried the new firware and reverted to 518.

Notwithstanding this - have any of you tried the new firware with a corally red 13.5?

I have tried 518 with the timing at 15 degrees and no turbo indoors (hertford) and found the car to be excellent with a ratio of 6. motor came of at around 30 degrees - I am gonna try it at 21 degrees to see if that's workable but on a tad lower ratio.
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Old 02-14-2011, 10:22 PM   #3125
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hi all,
it just out of topic, but just wanna get you guys opinions. what is the best fdr n esc setting using fw 508 no timing?? im using trf 416x n hobbywing 11.5t + juststock esc.

thankz
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Old 02-14-2011, 10:43 PM   #3126
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Tried the new software tonight, and it's definitely an improvement over previous versions. It's going to take some work to get it where I'd like, but considering I ran maybe 8 packs, I'm happy with the progress tonight.

I'm having a weird issue, though. The ESC sounds like it's engaging turbo immediately when I pull the trigger (free wheel), and does the same thing on the track. It also gets very hot. The only way I can fix this is to recalibrate the radio and ESC, but the problem comes back next time the ESC and radio are turned on. Any idea what might cause this? The radio is a 4PK that's been fine with all manner of other brands of ESC.
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:38 AM   #3127
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Originally Posted by geubes View Post
These settings seem very specific for driver I found. I Qualified 4th Sunday and finished 4th overall in 13.5 at CWIC, been using various hobbywing software over the winter and I am loving the power of 119 over previous versions. But my profile is VERY VERY punchy - another driver I know tried it and found it didnt suit him. But I found my car defo not lacking speed or infield grunt - was only me that let it down. It was the black car if you were watching the finals / Quallis

This is what I ran Sunday:
HobbyWing: 110119Stock

DRRS: 9
Brakes: 100%
reverse force: 25%
Boost timing: 26 degrees
Turbo Slope: 18 degrees
Turbo timing: 34 degrees
Start rpm: 3000
Turbo Delay: 0.2s
Timing ACC: 300

FDR: 7.25
Trinity Duo3 motor

I started at 7.6 (from previous round) but the faster track meant i had to adjust a few settings as it was boosting to much on the infield

Reuben
I was watching your qualifiers and finals as i was marshalling both.
I don't have a problem with the 119 software in my 13.5 class as i think it was on the pace i just need to learn to drive a faster car as i mainly run 17.5.
It seems with the 17.5 with a 0 fixed timing motor there maybe a little loss in punch as there is no mechanical timing on the motor at the lower revs, this is why i tried adding timing at 1000 rpm. i will be running the 13.5 hobbywing at the btcc as its now on the brca list of approved motors but i may not run the 17.5 again until i can do some testing maybe at ardent. i need to switch motors between my lrp and hobbywing to see if its the motor or me
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Old 02-15-2011, 01:53 AM   #3128
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Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
I have more or less the same feeling about 119. I certainly haven't found the driveability with it that I had with 518.

The very bottom end is dead. The midrange to turbo area is very fast, especially if you run 50 boost and the rest as turbo.

I was having a rough time at the CWIC over the weekend (I think you and I race at the same series?) and decided to take all the timing off the ESC and run a big pinion. The bottom end was a lot better although total power was naturally down which cost me.

If I had the time (and I'm not sure I do) I would approach the ESC setup from a different angle - big pinion to use the motors natural torque to get out of the corners, then smaller amounts of boost and turbo to get the top end without overheating the motor.

I run the SP 13.5 motor by the way.
A few pages back I also said this; the 119 seems really dead at the bottom end, but has better mid-range and top end than 518. Interestingly I also run an SP v3 motor (10.5 for me).

I'm installing a data-logger to help analyse the issue. I'm also planning on trying the 1224 firmware to see if this is any better. I'll let you know if I find anything of use.
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:39 AM   #3129
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Originally Posted by millbank View Post
I was watching your qualifiers and finals as i was marshalling both.
I don't have a problem with the 119 software in my 13.5 class as i think it was on the pace i just need to learn to drive a faster car as i mainly run 17.5.
It seems with the 17.5 with a 0 fixed timing motor there maybe a little loss in punch as there is no mechanical timing on the motor at the lower revs, this is why i tried adding timing at 1000 rpm. i will be running the 13.5 hobbywing at the btcc as its now on the brca list of approved motors but i may not run the 17.5 again until i can do some testing maybe at ardent. i need to switch motors between my lrp and hobbywing to see if its the motor or me
Ummm, despite what you think there...adding timing low down will only take away torque, not increase it!
It comes back to the points made a while ago, that the key point for setting boost is, IMO, the rpm the motor will see on the slowest corner of the track... taking your settings, and assuming an FDR of 5.0FDR (I've no idea what to gear a 17.5 at, so taking a punt)... and your starting the boost ramp at 1.5mph!

I very very much doubt your going that slow around the track at any point, so all your doing is giving the motor timing when it's not needed... i.e. at the bottom of the rev-range when you want the torque! That's probably why the motor feels dead out the corners.

I would seriously look at raising that boost start rpm, say more towards 5000.

My second point... your using 60deg of boost, with a ramp of 750rpm/, right?
Well, I can 100% tell you now, you are not using all that boost, unless you can get a 17.5 to go over 60mph. With those settings, I'd be suprised if your using more than 35 of the boost timing, simply as motor won't ever get to the maximum rpm.

Suffice to say a, umm, reassessment of your settings might be in order! Bringing the start rpm up, and the ramp rate shorter will only give more power. You'll gain more torque at the bottom, and more top end as there will be more timing in use in the right place on the rev range.

Again, here's a link to the speed chart I've been using... THard.co.uk Speedo setting chart, you can pretty easily see the difference by playing around with the numbers.

HiH
Ed
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Last edited by TryHard; 02-15-2011 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 02-15-2011, 09:40 AM   #3130
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Turn the delay off too!
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Old 02-15-2011, 09:55 AM   #3131
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Thanks for the speed chart i think that might help alot. its easy to end up going the wrong way with all the settings and it would seem that i did. i have tried the motor with a taller gear ratio and no boost and it still seems a bit flat to be honest.
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Old 02-15-2011, 04:17 PM   #3132
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Again, I've attached the speed chart I've been using... you can pretty easily see the difference by playing around with the numbers.

HiH
Ed
Hi Ed,

Your speed chart is a useful tool for imagining the timing effects (although we have no actual data available to us about our cars true speed and true RPM).

There does seem to be a small problem with the "output" section in that the FDR is fixed at 5 and does not update according to the spur/pinion/IR input.

I don't want to suggest that 119 is a "bad" software. However to me it is quite clear that the basic suggested setups are a lot vaguer. The 518 basic setup was quite precise and worked very well for me. The 119 setup looks like it will need at least two or three more changes to be tested. Sadly I don't have the opportunity to do this - I arrive at a race meeting and need to be near the pace from round 1.

This is a very useful thread, but when you have boost ranges from 30-50 being posted, and gear ratios from the mid-5's to the mid-7's (etc.) all being praised as a "great setting", you have to start questioning who really has a feel for what the software is doing.
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:58 PM   #3133
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Hi Ed,

Your speed chart is a useful tool for imagining the timing effects (although we have no actual data available to us about our cars true speed and true RPM).

There does seem to be a small problem with the "output" section in that the FDR is fixed at 5 and does not update according to the spur/pinion/IR input.

I don't want to suggest that 119 is a "bad" software. However to me it is quite clear that the basic suggested setups are a lot vaguer. The 518 basic setup was quite precise and worked very well for me. The 119 setup looks like it will need at least two or three more changes to be tested. Sadly I don't have the opportunity to do this - I arrive at a race meeting and need to be near the pace from round 1.

This is a very useful thread, but when you have boost ranges from 30-50 being posted, and gear ratios from the mid-5's to the mid-7's (etc.) all being praised as a "great setting", you have to start questioning who really has a feel for what the software is doing.
Ahh yes... I forgot about that. I was playing with the FDR last night, and accidently fixed it at 5! Just change the FDR figure to tweak it, and I'll update later. Actually, just noticed that the zip file is corrupted again (no idea why mind!), so changed the attachement for a link, which has a proper working FDR value.

I'm taking an educated guess on the RPM and speed settings, namely for when I used an eagle tree data logger a few times (both indoors and out). I had the rpm sensor mounted to the spool, so knew what rpm the driveline was doing... so from there relatively easy to work backwards for motor RPM (knowing gearing, internal ratio etc), and forwards for the wheel speed (tyre diameter, rollout). Interestingly, hardly saw less than 8mph on track, although these were tracks like Martime, newbury and mendip, not a tight and twisty school hall.

Regarding the setup of the speedo... thats exactly why I draw up the chart (originally for the mamba), as it gives me a point of reference to go back to if I get lost on the settings, and also as a bit of a sanity check... I'm not saying my settings etc will be perfect, but at the very least should give a good indication of the sort of decent starting location. Using a bit of common sense, it shouldn't be too hard to get in the ball park

If I was to go to a new track, with a new motor, I'd firstly set a FDR for the motor, then give it moderate boost, have a look on the chart for a start RPM, and work from there. Getting the balance between FDR and rpm range is pretty key IMO, and there isn't any subsitute for that other than experience and gut feeling, as all motors perform different, as do all drivers! Once I've found a setting that works well at most the tracks and classes, then I'd start to look at fine tuning the boost and turbo settings.

I will say that at least with the program box is a hell of a lot easier to switch settings, no booting up a pc to get into the settings..

HiH
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Last edited by TryHard; 02-15-2011 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:28 AM   #3134
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Question,
What is the problem of running the ESC without the capacitor caps?
Just curious...
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:47 AM   #3135
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Question,
What is the problem of running the ESC without the capacitor caps?
Just curious...
No Problem when using with today Batteries,
it will help the most when using Weak Sub-C.

although the Speed Passion Capacitor set would tell you if you accidentally placed the wrong Battery polarity before you switched on.
kind of protection prevention (blown).

unless you are using the Speed Passion 1.500.000uf
you will get the Weak Battery more kick, the effect is almost the same as the Burst.
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