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Old 02-08-2011, 01:16 AM   #3001
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Originally Posted by millbank View Post
Sorry for starting this discussion about esc & motor approval..
I agree with the most as why can't we have a world governing body that approves all esc and motors for rc use. It would seem that the BRCA in England are pretty useless at approving new items and as it is a voluntary organisation I shouldn't complain.... However after many emails and no replys it feels like i'm banging my head against a wall. It would seem no one is interested in the UK market which is growing very quickly again.
Please Angelo could you make some enquiries as to the legality of h/w motors in england..
Thanks Jay
I will make some enquiries but to be honest it is hard as what you are telling me .

Please give me some info some feedback on the rules of your blocs like efra,brca etc .

Like for example i see roar wants 4 batterys and $250 for testing for roar approval i bet 70% atleast of the batterys approved 4 have been sent in as test batterys high quality and the ones that are sold are basic low grades how would they know ?In saying that the only test they would do at the track is a voltage test not a dead short test or a drop test so i see the approval process as a complete waste of time .

so yes it is a pandora's box we are opening as one hand doesnt know what the other is doing .

Please give me some feedback as i know that if we get all the approvals it will cost a fortune for all turn motors which are on the cards anyway .

What i think is this if a brand is based in europe its should be efra approved and excepted by all like roar,femca,farma etc .

If a product is approved in femca as the brand is in the femca region it should be excepted by all .

The way i see things now is it's just a money grabbing exercise and killing competition on a world scale .but thats my opinion only

regards Angelo
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:46 AM   #3002
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Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
I will make some enquiries but to be honest it is hard as what you are telling me .

Please give me some info some feedback on the rules of your blocs like efra,brca etc .
The way it works is that H/W need a UK importer and it is then upto the UK importer to submit the motor for homologation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

BRCA
http://brca.org/?q=sections/subsecti...-equipment/592

http://brca.org/?q=content/regulations/1398
see rule 9 for the specs that a brushless motor has to meet to pass homologation for BRCA sanctioned events.

Quote:
Motors:
manufacturers on a regular basis release new motors. Because of the spread of events within the various Electric Sections, it would not be practical to limit the homologation of motors to specific dates in the year.

New motors can be submitted to the (EB) for approval at any time in the year. Before a new motor can be added to the relevant homologation list, the (EB) check with the distributor that a significant number have been received in the UK. Providing the new motor submitted complies with technical specifications and the required numbers have been received in the UK, the motor will be added to the homologation list on the website. To make it simple to follow any updates, the (EB) will only add new motors to the homologation lists on Mondays of any particular week.

Motor homologation fees :-
All motors 40.00. Cheque payable to the BRCA.
This fee is payable for each individual type or range of motor, and will entitle that type or range to be included on the homologation list when the EB Homologation Officer is satisfied with the eligibility and availability of the motor. The motor will remain on the relevant homologation list for a period of five years from the date of first registration with no further fees being payable during this time.
Any queries that cannot be answered by the Technical Officers in the Electric Sections relating to specifications, rules or homologation procedures that the (EB) control should be addressed to the (EB) Secretary.

from the BRCA handbook, both should be able to help re EFRA regs
Quote:
Electric Board
Chairman: Russ Giles (for details see 1:12th Circuit)
russ_giles@blueyonder.com

Secretary: & Eligibility:
Paul Worsley / Chairman/EFRA Rep.
paul.worsley@virgin.net
NOTE: nothing to stop the end user using H/W motors providing their club rules do not stick to the BRCA list

for EFRA regs go here and select the year
http://news.efra.ws/index.php?id=231

Last edited by CFR; 02-08-2011 at 02:05 AM.
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:34 AM   #3003
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Motor homologation?....
Is this normal in the electro world?....
(don't forget I'm a 8th scale racer, and do 1/12 racing to keep my skills up)

Isn't this homologation rules for motors, plain simple because people will not admit some drivers have better skills, and so because they are faster, they MUST have better/illegal equipment, so lets put it on an approval list?

Some years ago Jilles Groskamp also started running 8th scale cars for Serpent in the beginning.
At that time a friend of mine, capable of running 15.0 laps at out track, gave his car to Jilles, because he wanted to attend a clubrace to get the feeling of these cars.
After 30 minutes of driving, with the same car, Jilles drove 14.3 laptimes with it!
So 0.7 seconds faster, and not because he was running better equipment!....
But just because some people have better skills!.....


Motor homologation.....
I don't see these rules in the EFRA handbook, except for batteries.

and I agree with Cobra, homologation is quiet useless and uncontrolable.
A good measurable technical specification is better...
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:58 AM   #3004
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Originally Posted by M7H View Post
Motor homologation?....
Is this normal in the electro world?....
(don't forget I'm a 8th scale racer, and do 1/12 racing to keep my skills up)

Isn't this homologation rules for motors, plain simple because people will not admit some drivers have better skills, and so because they are faster, they MUST have better/illegal equipment, so lets put it on an approval list?

I don't see these rules in the EFRA handbook, except for batteries.

and I agree with Cobra, homologation is quiet useless and uncontrolable.
A good measurable technical specification is better...
I agree with you Martin. It is normal in most classes. They want to spec everything and put it in a HOMOlogation list. They think one will be faster then another or blaming the brands of creating a super motor or esc or whatever.

For instance, In our pro10 class we don't use a homologation list. We agreed to use a 10.5t star wound motor and 2s lipo. The esc is open. We drive all brands esc, motor brands and lipo brands together. Some use motors that are not on the approval list because they like the brand or whatever. And you know what? There is almost no speed difference and if there is then you can just tweak a little with your esc setup.

It is still all about the ability to get the setup right for the track and the ability to drive a car. The rest is just bs if you ask me and a sure way of creating loopholes for cheating.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:00 AM   #3005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H View Post
Motor homologation?....
Is this normal in the electro world?....
Yes

at least with the BRCA, it's seen as a way of controlling costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H View Post
A good measurable technical specification is better...
which is what we have with the BRCA motor rules
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:08 AM   #3006
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Originally Posted by CFR View Post
Yes

at least with the BRCA, it's seen as a way of controlling costs



which is what we have with the BRCA motor rules

But the technical specification is not used as a means of scrutineering motors. It is used as a means of homologating motors to then be passed at scrutineering level.

I don't have a problem with the principle of homologation, however I think that it does occasionally result in rather absurd approvals and rejections based on a mis-application of the rules (often unintentionally).

Most of the BRCA lists consist of "label" homologation of products that are identical and in some cases "label" homologation of products that are not what they claim to be on said label!

PS I write this having no knowledge of how the BRCA approval process pertains to Hobbywing products!
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:17 AM   #3007
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Don't forget homologation lisits also were introduced to stop the motor of the week etc, In the past especially with stock classes like 27t f.i. this caused people to quit, because they thought they needed to upgrade again and again. Whether it was better or not, I will not get into.
So it was instituted also to get a litlle "rest" during the season, investmentwise.

NOW let's get back on topic
And get supercharged.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:47 AM   #3008
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Originally Posted by 2wdrive View Post
I agree with you Martin. It is normal in most classes.
I'm glad I drive nitro powered in the summer season...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaDude View Post
Don't forget homologation lisits also were introduced to stop the motor of the week etc, In the past especially with stock classes like 27t f.i. this caused people to quit, because they thought they needed to upgrade again and again. Whether it was better or not, I will not get into.
So it was instituted also to get a litlle "rest" during the season, investmentwise.

NOW let's get back on topic
And get supercharged.
Your right, that's a good reason....

but, with brushless nowadays, I think you can skip homologation rules for motors....
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:07 AM   #3009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millbank View Post
Sorry for starting this discussion about esc & motor approval..
I agree with the most as why can't we have a world governing body that approves all esc and motors for rc use. It would seem that the BRCA in England are pretty useless at approving new items and as it is a voluntary organisation I shouldn't complain.... However after many emails and no replys it feels like i'm banging my head against a wall. It would seem no one is interested in the UK market which is growing very quickly again.
Please Angelo could you make some enquiries as to the legality of h/w motors in england..
Thanks Jay
Jay, as soon as half term arrives we are going to submit the HW 13.5's to the BRCA for stock use. So bear with us the rules are quite specific about shop and stock availability etc we have been working hard to get these into the required number of stores and have now managed it. Watch this space.......

Hopefully a new driver will be added to the UK team in the very near future.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:09 AM   #3010
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Hi guys,

can the 2-in-1 card program seamlessly two different version of stock software on 2 different speedos? I have two cars and one of them I don't want to upgrade to 119... do I have to reflash the 2-in-1 card every time, or will it "recognize" both speedos as different "transparently" (and offer different programming options of course?)

thanks

Paul
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:19 AM   #3011
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Originally Posted by Lonestar View Post
Hi guys,

can the 2-in-1 card program seamlessly two different version of stock software on 2 different speedos? I have two cars and one of them I don't want to upgrade to 119... do I have to reflash the 2-in-1 card every time, or will it "recognize" both speedos as different "transparently" (and offer different programming options of course?)

thanks

Paul
Yes that's fine, as long as the box is updated with the latest firmware.

I run 119 on my ESC and updated someone else to 518 the other week (as they have an LED box which doesnt work with 119), without having to reflash the box. The box worked fine with both the 518 and 119 ESCs.
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:01 AM   #3012
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A very quick note here on homologations etc...

YES there is a set of technical specifications defining how to build a motor. NO it's not really spec racing as this gives a set of parameters and each manufacturer builds whatever they think is best WITHIN these parameters.

Now, let's say we only had these rules and no homologation list....

You go to an event, strictly speaking EVERY motor there would need to be disassembled after EVERY run to make sure it's all within these specifications set.

So simply to avoid this, all the associations ask is the manufacturer/distributer to submit a sample to them before the season starts so they can check all is within the rules. If it is, it goes on the list, and you can use it at the events covered by those rules.

It's just a simple way of enforcing the rules laid out!

The reason there are different lists for different countries/blocks etc is because some products are not available or not supported in that region. This way it always gives the association a point of contact with that manufacturer.

Hope that clears things up a bit!
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:23 AM   #3013
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Originally Posted by daleburr View Post
Yes that's fine, as long as the box is updated with the latest firmware.

I run 119 on my ESC and updated someone else to 518 the other week (as they have an LED box which doesnt work with 119), without having to reflash the box. The box worked fine with both the 518 and 119 ESCs.
Many thanks.

Paul
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:24 PM   #3014
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and I agree with Cobra, homologation is quiet useless and uncontrolable.
A good measurable technical specification is better...[/QUOTE]

You will see that this will be proven at the TITC thailand especially in the FWD class were everyone uses the same esc and motor brand .1/4 of the drivers will always be faster than the rest and that is because of driver skill full stop .

I had a driver tell me Angelo i need to get 0.3 sec more pace out of the justock well maybe you need to stop crashing ,take a better line into the corner's use a better battery ,change your gearing etc ,new software is not going to help you if you cannot drive or your crash alot or dont take the proper line into the corners or your fish tailing out of corners all these things mean lap time as we see in go karts and full scale cars same concept .see if it was 2-3 sec slower then id say ok lets see what we can do plus dont crash on every lap or dont hack people either saves lap time
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:10 PM   #3015
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I have a 12 month plan which started 1 month ago for hobbywing and that is to ....

1.Have all motors approved on a world scale
2.stock racing esc's approved
3.Better easier to understand software with more performance
4.A new esc for pro racing (cant say which one though sorry)will have a new way to program not used by anyone else
5.A modern look for hobbywing (including logo)
6.Better after sales service and customer support .
7.Easier to navigate website with more info .
8.Distributor list and dealer list
9.Racing results posted on website and websites around the world.
10.Loyal customer rewards program
11.A new warranty policy with exchange programs for a fee .
12.exteneded warranty program which will have a small fee implemented .

and thats only the tip of the iceberg .

regards Angelo
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