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Old 02-01-2011, 07:59 PM   #2851
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Although I had my motor at 90 Celcius.... and could really feel all performance went down the drain....

I went back from 0119 to the 1224, because the set-up I have with that FW is really fast, if not the fastest there is on our track, at this moment, yes even faster then the tekins!
Equal in the first 4 minutes, but then I start having the advantage, because I'm running cooler and more efficient with the power in my lipo's!....
It's not at all fully opened, but that's the secret, you have to run for 8 minutes, and not for only 1 lap!
Yes, I will probably switch back to 1224 now that its known to be a better performer then 0119. Just wish the 119 software delivered the same power. My new setup should have been faster based on their manual.

1224 is pretty darn fast, but i didnt have quite the same power as the tekins. Really close though, alittle more experimenting would probably achieve it though.
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:33 PM   #2852
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Ill take the 60 deg with 1 deg steps as per the manual. Timing may not be everything but when I am getting run down on straight by lesser drivers, it is a power thing. And proper application of gearing and timing makes power. 1/12 1S 17.5 REQUIRES 60 deg total timing. If the 119 software cant do that, then come clean and say it cant do it. I would have stayed with the 1224, with 46 deg ( if thats correct), and the 15 deg end bell. Its real close to the tekins, but not quite...

1S racing is very different then 2S. On 1S it takes alot to fry a motor, since you dont have the raw power available from the battery. I would never dream of running 60 deg timing in my TC!

The extra timing allows more boost (I would like to run 45-50 deg boost), allowing my car to have a higher RO. This will provide the needed rip out of the corner, while still having the high speed for the straight.

Shawn
But thats the point... regardless of what any other manufacturers say, they can't use more than about 30 of added timing, otherwise the motors won't work full stop! Take an old brushed motor, and turn the end bell 90... it won't run!

I appreciate that 1S is different to TC, the lower voltage really makes a big old difference. Out of interest, did you try setting the boost to 54 (instead of 38) in 0119 as advised by Sizheng? Worth a try at least

Regarding a 5.5t setup... I just ran it as advised by Sizheng. 0119MOD, turbo 14, Open time 18/0.1s, turbo delay 0.3s, DRRS 6.

HiH
Ed
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:25 PM   #2853
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But thats the point... regardless of what any other manufacturers say, they can't use more than about 30 of added timing, otherwise the motors won't work full stop! Take an old brushed motor, and turn the end bell 90... it won't run!

I appreciate that 1S is different to TC, the lower voltage really makes a big old difference. Out of interest, did you try setting the boost to 54 (instead of 38) in 0119 as advised by Sizheng? Worth a try at least

Regarding a 5.5t setup... I just ran it as advised by Sizheng. 0119MOD, turbo 14, Open time 18/0.1s, turbo delay 0.3s, DRRS 6.

HiH
Ed
Brushless motors can run alot higher then 30deg, they produce their most amount of power when approaching 60deg. With high turn motors, there is still enough inductance to prevent the motor from drawing to much current so it can be done without damageing the motor. As the number of turns goes down, the inductance is also lowered, so the motor will draw more current. Reducing the amount of timing in the motor, the stator will produce more back emf (think inductance) to the ESC reducing the amount of current draw. (preventing it from burning up). Thats why you must run less timing on your 5.5 mod motors. Its also why I can run my 17.5 at close to 60deg momentarily while not burning the motor up. If you want more info I can recommend some ISBN's to read on the subject.
As for why I am alittle more then ticked, is if the speedo, or software doesnt actually do 60deg, then DONT PUT IT IN THE MANUAL. 60 DEG is a mathimatical, and measurable amount and not a series of steps.

As for running 0119 at 54, No. 38 deg was only being used because that was the limit at the time, I would rather run 45-50 deg boost. Thats what 0119 says it can do in the manual. Now after the fact, we (as in all rctech'ers) found out that its not true. Do you understand where I am coming from? Its frustrating to be told one thing, to find out after the fact that its not true, and the manual mis-represents the product.

I am sure Sizheng and Angealo are both very smart guys, and have worked very hard on their products. That is why I am surprised their is a mis-match between the manual and the actual product. I would also not be surprised if their is a meeting going on somewhere about this matter, with some loud discussion. (or atleast I should hope so).

Cheers,
Shawn.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:14 AM   #2854
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I can't agree with you more Shawn.

It is also worth noting that the total number of degrees that is given to the motor is not as important as how you deliver the timing. For eg my 7.5 Turn SP motor(in a TC) has 40 degrees of timing total (10 on the motor and 30 on the esc on 101224 stock). some people would say this is not possible or not a good idea, but I can say that when set up properly it works fantastic. The motor has been running around 60C to 65C.

From my testing its not such a good idea to run Mod motors + turbo as the motor may run cool and fast, but then you will tend to get a real small power band. It seems much better to run no turbo with mod and run as much dynamic timing as you can get away with by itself. This will ensure a real smooth power band. In saying this I have only had a relatively short time to test this with 101224 stock.

Regards
Mike
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:26 AM   #2855
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Originally Posted by Shawn68z View Post
Brushless motors can run alot higher then 30deg, they produce their most amount of power when approaching 60deg. With high turn motors, there is still enough inductance to prevent the motor from drawing to much current so it can be done without damageing the motor. As the number of turns goes down, the inductance is also lowered, so the motor will draw more current. Reducing the amount of timing in the motor, the stator will produce more back emf (think inductance) to the ESC reducing the amount of current draw. (preventing it from burning up). Thats why you must run less timing on your 5.5 mod motors. Its also why I can run my 17.5 at close to 60deg momentarily while not burning the motor up. If you want more info I can recommend some ISBN's to read on the subject.
As for why I am alittle more then ticked, is if the speedo, or software doesnt actually do 60deg, then DONT PUT IT IN THE MANUAL. 60 DEG is a mathimatical, and measurable amount and not a series of steps.

As for running 0119 at 54, No. 38 deg was only being used because that was the limit at the time, I would rather run 45-50 deg boost. Thats what 0119 says it can do in the manual. Now after the fact, we (as in all rctech'ers) found out that its not true. Do you understand where I am coming from? Its frustrating to be told one thing, to find out after the fact that its not true, and the manual mis-represents the product.

I am sure Sizheng and Angealo are both very smart guys, and have worked very hard on their products. That is why I am surprised their is a mis-match between the manual and the actual product. I would also not be surprised if their is a meeting going on somewhere about this matter, with some loud discussion. (or atleast I should hope so).

Cheers,
Shawn.
\\

Shawn you know me to well yes there is discussions going on and very loud ones to it will be all sorted and explained couple more days for chinese new year celebrations to end and all will be good .

But please dont forget im always available via email and rc tech i dont take holidays no matter what .customer is very important so no holidays for me .

Cheers Angelo
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:31 AM   #2856
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Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
\\

Shawn you know me to well yes there is discussions going on and very loud ones to it will be all sorted and explained couple more days for chinese new year celebrations to end and all will be good .

But please dont forget im always available via email and rc tech i dont take holidays no matter what .customer is very important so no holidays for me .

Cheers Angelo
You workaholic you...
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:20 AM   #2857
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Originally Posted by Shawn68z View Post
Brushless motors can run alot higher then 30deg, they produce their most amount of power when approaching 60deg. With high turn motors, there is still enough inductance to prevent the motor from drawing to much current so it can be done without damageing the motor. As the number of turns goes down, the inductance is also lowered, so the motor will draw more current. Reducing the amount of timing in the motor, the stator will produce more back emf (think inductance) to the ESC reducing the amount of current draw. (preventing it from burning up). Thats why you must run less timing on your 5.5 mod motors. Its also why I can run my 17.5 at close to 60deg momentarily while not burning the motor up. If you want more info I can recommend some ISBN's to read on the subject.
As for why I am alittle more then ticked, is if the speedo, or software doesnt actually do 60deg, then DONT PUT IT IN THE MANUAL. 60 DEG is a mathimatical, and measurable amount and not a series of steps.

As for running 0119 at 54, No. 38 deg was only being used because that was the limit at the time, I would rather run 45-50 deg boost. Thats what 0119 says it can do in the manual. Now after the fact, we (as in all rctech'ers) found out that its not true. Do you understand where I am coming from? Its frustrating to be told one thing, to find out after the fact that its not true, and the manual mis-represents the product.

I am sure Sizheng and Angealo are both very smart guys, and have worked very hard on their products. That is why I am surprised their is a mis-match between the manual and the actual product. I would also not be surprised if their is a meeting going on somewhere about this matter, with some loud discussion. (or atleast I should hope so).

Cheers,
Shawn.
Ok I get it, your pissed.. fine. But, from my side, you've stated that you thought the 0119 was slow compared to the 1224, have been given a reason as to why, and al solution, yet seemingly haven't tried it? Isn't that what counts? *headbang* Forget about the thing, Angelo has said that it's being discussed (and I agree, it's not exactly clear).

All I've stated here is simply what was explained to me. it's been stated 1224 and 0119 have similar (if not the same overall) total timing levels. But they need to be set differently to achieve the same performance. Simples.
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:41 AM   #2858
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Regarding a 5.5t setup... I just ran it as advised by Sizheng. 0119MOD, turbo 14, Open time 18/0.1s, turbo delay 0.3s, DRRS 6.

HiH
Ed
What 5.5T motor was that Ed?
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:10 AM   #2859
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Ok guys now i understand that some of you are very confused because of so many options that have been added and at small intervals in increases .

I have just gone through the instructions i understand them 100% as i have realised that they are difficult to understand so what im going to do is re write them in a simople format and explain the whole sequence in small steps .

Believe me after looking at the instructions myself for the first time it confused me as well .

couple of days and ill make it right .

Thank you so much for your patience

regards the workaholic Angelo

ps: sleep is a guarantee when your dead but for me no sleep until all is complete lol
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:14 AM   #2860
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Hey cobra can you offer me a starting point for a setup for my xray t3 with fdr of 5.2
The speedy i have is hw 120a and speedpassion 17.5t running turbo software.
I am just after a starting setup and i can work from there but i dont just want to go in to the settings and start changing them and blow anything up.
Cheers in advance
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:26 AM   #2861
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What 5.5T motor was that Ed?
MMH 5.5t, custom made local motor (and it's shiney blue ). For other motors, would suggest a good starting point is with a little less gear and a little less turbo, then check the temps after a run. If still, gear up + more turbo. I did find a noticeable increase in straight line with just a few extra steps () of turbo mind..

HiH
Ed
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:16 AM   #2862
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Default 21.5 Set Up

All,

I am hoping someone can help as I have seen loads of requests for a 21.5 set up but no real responses as yet? I am looking at running in the 21.5 class at my club that they are going to be running in the summer, from trailing through threads I get the impression that you basically turn everything to the max and use gearing and temperature to sort the rest out? This sounds very risky to me and do not want to go blowing anything up! I am going to be running on both carpet and asphalt using rubber in a standard 4 wheel drive touring car. I have already tried running on the stock extreme kit setting with an FDR of 4.7 but the car felt like it run out if steam after about 20 feet.

If anyone has any ideas for the ESC set up and FDR to use as a good starting point that would be great.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:44 AM   #2863
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All,

I am hoping someone can help as I have seen loads of requests for a 21.5 set up but no real responses as yet? I am looking at running in the 21.5 class at my club that they are going to be running in the summer, from trailing through threads I get the impression that you basically turn everything to the max and use gearing and temperature to sort the rest out? This sounds very risky to me and do not want to go blowing anything up! I am going to be running on both carpet and asphalt using rubber in a standard 4 wheel drive touring car. I have already tried running on the stock extreme kit setting with an FDR of 4.7 but the car felt like it run out if steam after about 20 feet.

If anyone has any ideas for the ESC set up and FDR to use as a good starting point that would be great.
It sounds like you don't have the turbo/boost settings activated.

Do you have the 2in1 professional program box and have you loaded the appropriate firmware ?

USB LINK Application Software can be found here:

http://www.hobbywing.com/upload/soft....63_110119.rar

User Manual Of Supercharged Turbo STOCK Firmware can be found here:

http://www.hobbywing.com/upload/manu...e_20110125.pdf

You can apply the recommended 17.5t settings and increase timing / boost/ acceleration according to your needs.

While not optimal it will give you a good safe starting point.

cheers
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Old 02-02-2011, 10:03 AM   #2864
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Ran my Speed Passion 21.5 at our club track (see http://homepage.ntlworld.com/barry.h/ for track size) on Sunday for the first time with the 110119 fw in an Xerun 60A speedo. Managed to get it into 6th spot in the A final against 13.5 drivers, and a fellow team driver with the same motor but an Extreme stock speedo with 110119, got onto 4th spot in the A final.
Settings were all those recommended from the firmware except:-
9 - 35
12 - 25
13 - 2000
13 - 200
FDR was 4.87.
My fellow team driver tried FDR down to 4.6, but motor was coming off nearer 75 degrees whilst mine came off at 50 on every one of the six runs.
Really pleased with the overall performance as I could really hassle the 13.5 in the infield but did loose out a little on the straight.
Hope this helps.

Last edited by Greyfox; 02-03-2011 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 02-02-2011, 10:03 AM   #2865
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Can anyone recommend what would be a good a geed esc for 17.5 fixed timing for touring car?

Thanks
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