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Old 12-08-2010, 08:44 PM   #1876
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Originally Posted by Shawn68z View Post
My only request is simply, allow more Turbo. Double the value that is in the 518 software. That would allow 44deg of ESC timing, i think that would make us all alittle happier. Personally it would allow me to run less timing on the infield where the turbo adds to much timing, and still have enough timing for down the straight. It just adds flexability to the setup.

When running 1S 1/12, you will not be frying anything, there is just not enough power. (And having alittle common sense too).

When running 2S Touring Car, it could be dangerous, but even with the current software people can fry the ESC and their motors. Racers just have to work from the conservative side of their gearing/timing until they get it right.

Angelo, we all appreciate the time and efford that goes into this ESC, and your position on reliability, and performance. There is always room for improvement, and although most of the forum in the last couple of days sounds like a childish rant, its mostly enthusiastic customers that think we all know what we want in a ESC. Maybe it would be possible to have a 1S and a 2S version of the software? This could allow the lower voltage software to use more timing, and still keep the 2S version within "reliable limits" ?


Cheers,

Shawn.
The last thing I would want is more turbo added on the ESC. That just equals even more static timing - exactly what we don't want. If anything I would not have any turbo in the software at all, and just have a lot more dynamic timing to play with.

Anything that adds lots of timing suddenly, will increase heat. It may seem like the car is going faster when the turbo comes on, but in reality all thats happening is that your dynamic timing + motor timing settings (not including the turbo) are insuffient to let the car accelerate any more. If you had more dynamic timing available, your car would accelerate even faster without any turbo.

At the moment most of us use turbo. The only reason we find it faster is because there is not enough dynamic timing adjustment on the esc and possibly the fact that the timing goes up linear instead of exponentially (but I won't even bother getting into that here).

Of course this is all theory as theres no way I can prove any of this without being allowed to play with the software.

Regards
Mike
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:45 PM   #1877
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The last thing I would want is more turbo added on the ESC. That just equals even more static timing - exactly what we don't want. If anything I would not have any turbo in the software at all, and just have a lot more dynamic timing to play with.

Anything that adds lots of timing suddenly, will increase heat.
Regards
Mike
To my knowledge the Turbo IS dynamic timing. But the amount of the turbo is only added to the timing when the ESC has been at full throttle for the amount of time specified by ESC Option #14 (Turbo Delay). The turbo also does not come in any faster then the boost. It still comes in at whatever level you have set option #15 (Timing Punch).

By having more turbo (upto 16deg) would allow the ESC to have a total of 37deg of dynamic timing instead of the current 29deg.


This would allow me to run my motor with _less_ static timing.

If you would like to have the turbo act the same (kinda) as boost, then turn off the delay. I personally like to have my throttle as linear as possible until WOT. It allows better control of the throttle for technical courses.

Cheers,
Shawn.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:56 PM   #1878
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Most of the top racers I've encountered recently are not using turbo at all, focusing on gearing and timing.. and they can still kill motors
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:07 PM   #1879
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see what some of you dont understand is that more timing or boost is not going to win you the race .There is more to a win than just boost and timing .

1.driver ability
2.tyres and compounds
3.batterys
4.gearing
5.suspension set up
6.radio setup and settings
7.track temp
8.product reliability
9.NO CRASHING lol

and many more factors it's not all in the timing or the boost .

If you dont have the ability that a pro driver has you can have extreme boost and the pro driver no boost and the pro driver will still beat you by two laps it's facts and reality ive witnessed it with my own eyes in many countries around the world.

In saying all that Hobbywing is improving there products all the time so you dont need to worry alot of things are on the cards but i can't say anything at the moment .
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:19 PM   #1880
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Originally Posted by Shawn68z View Post
To my knowledge the Turbo IS dynamic timing. But the amount of the turbo is only added to the timing when the ESC has been at full throttle for the amount of time specified by ESC Option #14 (Turbo Delay). The turbo also does not come in any faster then the boost. It still comes in at whatever level you have set option #15 (Timing Punch).

By having more turbo (upto 16deg) would allow the ESC to have a total of 37deg of dynamic timing instead of the current 29deg.


This would allow me to run my motor with _less_ static timing.

If you would like to have the turbo act the same (kinda) as boost, then turn off the delay. I personally like to have my throttle as linear as possible until WOT. It allows better control of the throttle for technical courses.

Cheers,
Shawn.
I stand corrected. I still don't really see much point in the turbo being seperate though. I guess we are basically asking for the same thing...

Regards
Mike
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:19 AM   #1881
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Believe me when im telling you michael is working hard everyday to improve not only hardware but software .Ok the esc's might physically look the same but newer components are coming out every so many months and hobbywing is using better and more advanced components constantly .

Also with the software the patch file i was emailing to people was not only to fix the futaba signal problem but also more brakes and other small things that basically some of you wouldnt understand or need to know its all in the digital technology .

so many things are happening at hobbywing so dont worry .
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Old 12-09-2010, 04:18 AM   #1882
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Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
Believe me when im telling you michael is working hard everyday to improve not only hardware but software .Ok the esc's might physically look the same but newer components are coming out every so many months and hobbywing is using better and more advanced components constantly .

Also with the software the patch file i was emailing to people was not only to fix the futaba signal problem but also more brakes and other small things that basically some of you wouldnt understand or need to know its all in the digital technology .

so many things are happening at hobbywing so dont worry .
Just wanna say that I've benefited from Angelo's awesome support. Have been in the hobby on and off for years but am totally new to brushless. Needless to say brushless technology has advanced so much with the introduction of dynamic timing, and with that the learning curve is much different and steeper then the brushed motor-days.

Angelo has been a great help with my re-entry into electric touring. He was very prompt in answering even my noobest of questions through email. I am very glad to have chosen HW in this aspect. So thanks Angelo! keep it up!

As for the debate on adding more timing and stuff. Well, personally I'd just leave it to Michael and the other engineers. They do this full time and have more technical and engineering knowledge than we'd ever know. With Angelo's assurance and the current quality of HW ESCS, I think i can safely trust that they know what they're doing, and that they're on to better stuff. I'm sure they're well aware of their competitors' capabilities, without needing our help to state how X brand has this much more timing and whatnot. If timing is supposed to be dynamic nowadays, can you even compare across different escs? 30deg of dynamic timing in one esc could mean a whole different thing in another.

Glad to hear improvements are on the way. Angelo i hope the minor ones can be upgradeable, so that we don't have to buy a new speedo
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Old 12-09-2010, 04:25 AM   #1883
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Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
Believe me when im telling you michael is working hard everyday to improve not only hardware but software .Ok the esc's might physically look the same but newer components are coming out every so many months and hobbywing is using better and more advanced components constantly .

Also with the software the patch file i was emailing to people was not only to fix the futaba signal problem but also more brakes and other small things that basically some of you wouldnt understand or need to know its all in the digital technology .

so many things are happening at hobbywing so dont worry .

Just picked up one of your new "happenings" and I am really enjoying it.

Gonna try the xtreme stock next.

Any chance you may start a thread on the new Short Course systems ?
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:34 PM   #1884
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Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
Believe me when im telling you michael is working hard everyday to improve not only hardware but software .Ok the esc's might physically look the same but newer components are coming out every so many months and hobbywing is using better and more advanced components constantly .

Also with the software the patch file i was emailing to people was not only to fix the futaba signal problem but also more brakes and other small things that basically some of you wouldnt understand or need to know its all in the digital technology .

so many things are happening at hobbywing so dont worry .

Not only have I put my faith in HW products, but I have also put out some more $$ to support HW. The mailman just cant get here soon enough!

Shawn
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:35 PM   #1885
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Just wanna say that I've benefited from Angelo's awesome support. Have been in the hobby on and off for years but am totally new to brushless. Needless to say brushless technology has advanced so much with the introduction of dynamic timing, and with that the learning curve is much different and steeper then the brushed motor-days.

Angelo has been a great help with my re-entry into electric touring. He was very prompt in answering even my noobest of questions through email. I am very glad to have chosen HW in this aspect. So thanks Angelo! keep it up!

As for the debate on adding more timing and stuff. Well, personally I'd just leave it to Michael and the other engineers. They do this full time and have more technical and engineering knowledge than we'd ever know. With Angelo's assurance and the current quality of HW ESCS, I think i can safely trust that they know what they're doing, and that they're on to better stuff. I'm sure they're well aware of their competitors' capabilities, without needing our help to state how X brand has this much more timing and whatnot. If timing is supposed to be dynamic nowadays, can you even compare across different escs? 30deg of dynamic timing in one esc could mean a whole different thing in another.

Glad to hear improvements are on the way. Angelo i hope the minor ones can be upgradeable, so that we don't have to buy a new speedo
Dear Zipp

thank you for the kind words and all i can say is all i can do is my best to service all of you the best way i can .My background is mechanical a electronic engineering in hardware i know software but i dont really get involved michael is the Guru there and to be honest im still learning like everyone else im the same as most of you guys on this thread a leaner not a cocky individual who thinks i know everything .Ill be learning for the rest of my life and thats what i love about r/c its changes all the time something new every so often .

Hobbywing are improving all the time from the rtr ezrun to now being a very big threat in the pro racing scene under the hobbywing branding .

Sp have been world champions for some years now but what people need to understand is that the equipment that won the world titles was hobbywing designed and manufactured hardware and software by michael lui one of the best hardware and software engineers who i have ever come across other than the great ability of the world champion driver .

Before i enter a company as a partner i look at the organisation ,i talk to the people involved i ask what do they want to do with the branding were do they want to take the brand .Are they serious about leaving there old ways behind and moving forward into the future .Do they want to be different from other cheating Asian companies and want to be taken serious in the western world ? Do they want to and agree and want to move forward in establishing exclusive distributors in developed countries etc .Are they serious about controlling Asian wholesalers and the hong kong online market which prostitutes pricing and downgrades the product and brand .All these things i look at and thats when i make a decision to see if i am going to join or not .I look from the outside for a few months and thats were you can see whats going on and thats from the outside as an ousiderto the organisation .To be honest Hobbywing have passed with flying colours everything they have promised to change they have delivered on and many more things to come .

My commitment to hobbywing as a part owner is long term and thats the same way the rest at Hobbywing feel there is no more short term business in the organisation but long term thinkers .

All we ask from our loyal customer base and future customers is dont judge us from the past but for the future and what we do to improve everything from our customer service to our products and beyond.

Hobbywing is here to stay and all i have to say is if any of you are competing at the TITC event in beutiful Thailand please enter or observe our sponsored Fwd class which was created by Greg Fisher of Feral batteries Australia (we thank Greg for all his help) as it will be a killer class and lots of fun .

Ok enough of my life stories please let me know how i can help you guys, at the moment yes we are looking deeply into our timing on our software and lets see what we can upgrade without jepordising our world class reliability.

I will keep all you electric fanatics posted .

AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT
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Last edited by COBRARACING; 12-09-2010 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 12-10-2010, 07:29 AM   #1886
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To my knowledge the Turbo IS dynamic timing. But the amount of the turbo is only added to the timing when the ESC has been at full throttle for the amount of time specified by ESC Option #14 (Turbo Delay).
I actually want to come back to this point.
Are you really sure the turbo timing is added to the total timing, and not just kicks in after the delay?
I am really under the impression that if I set the delay to 0 seconds, I have less punch.... which means the turbotiming kicks in immediately.
What is the advantage then of the delay?
If your ESC has not yet reached 21 degrees of timing, the turbo is useless, and if the delay is so long that it kicks in after the ESC reached 21 degrees, it is to late!

I will play with it once more, to be really sure....
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Old 12-10-2010, 07:47 AM   #1887
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1 more question.

At my track we have a speed trap.
Top speed of my car is 60kmh, with a roll out of 57mm, motor rpm then is aprox. 17500


What settings should I put in the esc.
assume a timing start rpm of 4500.
Should I let the total timing of 29 degrees be there as close as possible under the 17500, or should it be sooner?
With a timing punch of 400 rpm/degree it reaches it's full timing at:
4500 + (29x400) = 16100 rpm

If I go 1 step back, from 400 to 300 rpm/degree, max timing will be reached at 13200rpm.
This will (theoretically) give me more acceleration, or will the timing advance be to much for the engine?
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Old 12-10-2010, 08:27 AM   #1888
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1 more question.

At my track we have a speed trap.
Top speed of my car is 60kmh, with a roll out of 57mm, motor rpm then is aprox. 17500
M7H, not sure if your calculations are correct.
Roll out is the distance moved with 1 revolution of the motor
roll out = wheel circumference / fdr
Assuming you're using standard rubber tires with diameter of 59mm, circumference would be 59 x pi = 185mm
With a roll out of 57mm you would be running a fdr of 3.25
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Old 12-10-2010, 08:33 AM   #1889
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M7H, not sure if your calculations are correct.
Roll out is the distance moved with 1 revolution of the motor
roll out = wheel circumference / fdr
Assuming you're using standard rubber tires with diameter of 59mm, circumference would be 59 x pi = 185mm
With a roll out of 57mm you would be running a fdr of 3.25
12th scale
Tire diameter is 43mm....
spur 80, pinion 34.
foam.
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Old 12-10-2010, 08:40 AM   #1890
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12th scale
Tire diameter is 43mm....
spur 80, pinion 34.
foam.
right, should've known from your dp you'd sure know roll out better than I do! waiting to hear the response to your questions
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