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Old 12-08-2010, 06:42 AM   #1861
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Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
Can someone help?

Apparently the HW software is slow. But my car is ballistic on small/medium indoor tracks.

What have I done wrong? Is it because I'm using Hobbywing's suggested settings? Should I be listening to trackside Tekin experts instead?
The solution would be to buy a Speedpassion ESC! It is supposedly the highend version of Hobbywing!

I'm sorry if i thought this tread also was for development of the software and not only posts like "can someone give me a setup for 13.5t rubber TC" every third post...

Seriously though, just because something is good doesn't mean it cant be even better
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Old 12-08-2010, 06:53 AM   #1862
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The Ballistic have ifinitly adjustable timing so thats cool.
My motortemp seems to be around 60deg Celsius and i had it up to 80deg with a heavy throttlefinger and taller gearing.

Do the Tekin display actual degrees of timing? I think i heard somware that about 60deg of total timing is about max that can be added with severe adverse effects.
Also is the Tekin motors marked in absolute terms of timing starting at 0deg?

Have a really great time racing! I am soo jealous!
don't be because I can race now because I can't work for some weeks.
Police has my drivers licens.
Drove a bit to fast
120KM/h allowed and by 50 above max speed you loose your licens as they get you, and they did last week. I was driving more than 50 to hard. racing is not cheap out here. driving 210KM/h according the police. I had to tell at my work that I need some weeks off to wait till I get my licens back.
I don't get payed now. so don't be jealous but be happy.

Than the motor temps are ok.
But are you loosing speed comparred to the others?

The SP driver is now on the track with his car.
must say looks good as he keeps his car between the lines
Lap times are a bit slow but it is his first time on the track here and he has some trouble finding the right race line at the moment.

next lipo I will run with his car so we will see how it goes.

Tekin has in sensord mode 55 degrees of timing and some extra 20 turbo timing.
I don't now if 0 on the motor is realy 0 but I think that it is.
most of the time I run 50 plus 5 to 10 turbo or 55 with 0 or verry low turbo.
on larger track I run 40 to 45 timing plus 10 to 15 turbo.
alle with a low motor timing. only the sp motor stays on 10.
the sp motor runs than on it's best.
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:13 AM   #1863
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Originally Posted by Nilks View Post
With the short straight at my track, I can clearly see (as can the HobbyWing drivers) that my Tekin is faster at the end of the straight. Not enough to overtake, but it is faster - at our _short_ straight. I would love to see it at a slightly longer straight - then I would probably overtake them on the straight.
Nikls are you running the same FDR as you would with the Tekin? Usually my set up for Hw will be running a lower FDR than I would with my Tekin. This also somehow makes the motor runs a bit cooler. Hw has more rips out of corners so I do not loose anything and the gearing helps with the top speed. Infact My Tekin is a bit soft so I have to gear at a higher FDR so I can have the rips and Tekin really likes this as the powerband is from the mid to top while Hw powerband is from the bottom to mid. So all in all I have almost the same performance with both ESCs. Just for info I m running 11.5t stock class here in my region and for my local track which has about 130ft of straight I usually gear 7.35FDR for Tekin and 6.24 for Hw. Both are turning similar lap timing (based on average).
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:20 AM   #1864
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dameetz you have pm
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:37 AM   #1865
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Originally Posted by toptek View Post
don't be because I can race now because I can't work for some weeks.
Police has my drivers licens.
Drove a bit to fast
120KM/h allowed and by 50 above max speed you loose your licens as they get you, and they did last week. I was driving more than 50 to hard. racing is not cheap out here. driving 210KM/h according the police. I had to tell at my work that I need some weeks off to wait till I get my licens back.
I don't get payed now. so don't be jealous but be happy.

Than the motor temps are ok.
But are you loosing speed comparred to the others?

The SP driver is now on the track with his car.
must say looks good as he keeps his car between the lines
Lap times are a bit slow but it is his first time on the track here and he has some trouble finding the right race line at the moment.

next lipo I will run with his car so we will see how it goes.

Tekin has in sensord mode 55 degrees of timing and some extra 20 turbo timing.
I don't now if 0 on the motor is realy 0 but I think that it is.
most of the time I run 50 plus 5 to 10 turbo or 55 with 0 or verry low turbo.
on larger track I run 40 to 45 timing plus 10 to 15 turbo.
alle with a low motor timing. only the sp motor stays on 10.
the sp motor runs than on it's best.
It's better to drive to track and race there than to race to trak and drive there!

My car goes well and i am still working my way up to find the right setup.

I don't know how the Tekin works but i don't think it can be degrees your talking there. (55+20+?endbell=much)

It will be interesting to hear what you think of the SP.
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:24 AM   #1866
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Originally Posted by snabbgas View Post
The solution would be to buy a Speedpassion ESC! It is supposedly the highend version of Hobbywing!

I'm sorry if i thought this tread also was for development of the software and not only posts like "can someone give me a setup for 13.5t rubber TC" every third post...

Seriously though, just because something is good doesn't mean it cant be even better
I have the Much More Fleta sticker on mine which is probably even more high-end than SP!

Well, a serious point from me would be that I would personally be a bit disappointed if Hobbywing just made a Tekin-mimicking software update.

The Tekin system is easy to set up incorrectly and is very sensitive to the motor timing. You can over-time the Tekin if you are not careful. The Hobbywing is much easier to deal with.

In terms of the perceived compromise between bottom end and top end compared to a Tekin - I don't really see it on the track. I actually prefer the feel of the bottom end punch from a low-timing high-ratio motor setup than from a high-timing low-ratio setup.

I'm currently racing rubber/carpet at a club track which is 20x8m approx, and a regional series on a 30x16m track. I am losing nothing to anyone in terms of punch or speed. My driving standard is good enough to be able to feel the differences between power delivery, although I don't doubt that there are posters on this thread who can run quicker laps than me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dameetz View Post
Nikls are you running the same FDR as you would with the Tekin? Usually my set up for Hw will be running a lower FDR than I would with my Tekin. This also somehow makes the motor runs a bit cooler. Hw has more rips out of corners so I do not loose anything and the gearing helps with the top speed. Infact My Tekin is a bit soft so I have to gear at a higher FDR so I can have the rips and Tekin really likes this as the powerband is from the mid to top while Hw powerband is from the bottom to mid. So all in all I have almost the same performance with both ESCs. Just for info I m running 11.5t stock class here in my region and for my local track which has about 130ft of straight I usually gear 7.35FDR for Tekin and 6.24 for Hw. Both are turning similar lap timing (based on average).
Very good point. The typical HW seems to need a 10-15% higher ratio than a typical Tekin setup.

Of the handful of people that I have seen trackside or on this thread who have speed issues, most of them are running a "Tekin" style gear ratio. THIS IS NOT A TEKIN SPEEDO! It is a Hobbywing speedo and should be run within it's own setting parameters.
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:24 AM   #1867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dameetz View Post
Nikls are you running the same FDR as you would with the Tekin? Usually my set up for Hw will be running a lower FDR than I would with my Tekin. This also somehow makes the motor runs a bit cooler. Hw has more rips out of corners so I do not loose anything and the gearing helps with the top speed. Infact My Tekin is a bit soft so I have to gear at a higher FDR so I can have the rips and Tekin really likes this as the powerband is from the mid to top while Hw powerband is from the bottom to mid. So all in all I have almost the same performance with both ESCs. Just for info I m running 11.5t stock class here in my region and for my local track which has about 130ft of straight I usually gear 7.35FDR for Tekin and 6.24 for Hw. Both are turning similar lap timing (based on average).
Just to clear things up: I don't own a HW. I am comparing to the fast guy at my track racing a HW Xtreme Stock.

But he is running a lower FDR than me. I am at FDR 5.7 and he is at 5.0-5.1.

The difference in speed on the straight is small, but it is there and it is noticeable. But he is still beating us all. He is the only guy at the track who can do a 27-lapper. The closest guy is doing 26 laps in the same time.

So I agree that pro-drivers will still win with a HW, even though the performance is a bit lower.
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:56 AM   #1868
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Just drove the SP and I don't mention now the laptimes because his car was driving like a garbige truck.
So to compare it with my laptimes of my own car, was not right.
I changed the setup a bit and it went better but still to slow.
Changed the setup on the SP and it went faster.
Now he is changing the setup of his car so that is right.
Also using an other setup on his speedo.
thanks dameets for the setup.

Canīt wait till he is finnished.

Build in my car also the SP motor and Iīm now going to run some laps as my tires are ready and the track is empty.
The kids of my brother are now on the track with there cars.


I didnīt race to the track but to an importand meeting.
I had luck that I had a college with me soo he drove me to the meeting.
I was just in time.
As you have a car that I have, than you will do the same
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:59 AM   #1869
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My only request is simply, allow more Turbo. Double the value that is in the 518 software. That would allow 44deg of ESC timing, i think that would make us all alittle happier. Personally it would allow me to run less timing on the infield where the turbo adds to much timing, and still have enough timing for down the straight. It just adds flexability to the setup.

When running 1S 1/12, you will not be frying anything, there is just not enough power. (And having alittle common sense too).

When running 2S Touring Car, it could be dangerous, but even with the current software people can fry the ESC and their motors. Racers just have to work from the conservative side of their gearing/timing until they get it right.

Angelo, we all appreciate the time and efford that goes into this ESC, and your position on reliability, and performance. There is always room for improvement, and although most of the forum in the last couple of days sounds like a childish rant, its mostly enthusiastic customers that think we all know what we want in a ESC. Maybe it would be possible to have a 1S and a 2S version of the software? This could allow the lower voltage software to use more timing, and still keep the 2S version within "reliable limits" ?


Cheers,

Shawn.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:07 AM   #1870
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just set a time with my own car and straight after that I drove with the SP.
His car was now almost as good as mine by handling.
The setup worked good.
Good infield speed and a good top speed.
laptimes were about 0,3 slower than my own car with the same motor.
This is good for the car because the car is not driving 100% like my own car.
topspeed is comparred with my car a bit lower but from the rest I can deffenetly say that it is as fast as a LRP SXX ss speedo.
the SP driver drove with my car and then there were 2 LRP drivers.
I won with the SP from the LRP.
top speed about the same as the LRP.
accellaration is good. won't change a lot on that.
I can make the Tekin accellarate faster but this makes the car not faster.
you get weelspin, so it only cost a lot of time.
The accellaration was now like my Tekin.
I think with 1 tooth moore on the motor pinion will solve the missing topspeed.
but our straight is verry short and the motor temp was good.

My conclussion is bassed on 1 good run on a small track.
I think that as I use the SP speedo that I would set almost the same lap times as I have with my Tekin on the track.
I thik that the SP is like an LRP or even a faster. The difference is verry small.
The feeling is good of the speedo but I like the feel of the Tekin moore. (this is personally and someone els can feel it the otherway arround)
On a larger track the difference can be bigger but this I must try because it suprissed me how good the speedo did.

My conclussion for the track were i tested it.
Accellaration is good.
Top speed is good.
feeling overal is good.
I will advice beginners or drivers that want to save monney to take the speedo.

fine tuning is for the Tekin but it is harder to setup than the SP or HW.
A verry good speedo for that price with good power.

Now this was a fast test and now ad the moment the SP driver is trying the SP for him self on the track.
he will try my seccond Tekin speedo after we got some food and than we now how it goes.
I don't think that he wel drive faster with the Tekin than with the SP.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:17 AM   #1871
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My question got stuck on the bottom of the page. Still could use an answer.

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Originally Posted by Stregone View Post
I just got a new xerun 120A esc. I also ordered a cap for it because I didn't realize that one was included with it. The one included has 2 caps, and the extra I ordered has 4. Should I leave the 2 cap on there, replace it with the 4 cap, or can I run them both? Thanks.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:42 AM   #1872
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Originally Posted by Stregone View Post
My question got stuck on the bottom of the page. Still could use an answer.

Run the 4 cap model if you have it already. You could run all 6, but thats up to you. I dont know if it will make it even better, but it wont hurt anything.


Shawn
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:47 AM   #1873
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Run the 4 cap model if you have it already. You could run all 6, but thats up to you. I dont know if it will make it even better, but it wont hurt anything.


Shawn
Excellent. Thank you.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:21 PM   #1874
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i need a setup for 21.5 with the stock software fdr ect
thanks
need held running speedpassion motor
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:16 PM   #1875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snabbgas
The solution would be to buy a Speedpassion ESC! It is supposedly the highend version of Hobbywing!

I'm sorry if i thought this tread also was for development of the software and not only posts like "can someone give me a setup for 13.5t rubber TC" every third post...

Seriously though, just because something is good doesn't mean it cant be even better
Quote:
Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
I have the Much More Fleta sticker on mine which is probably even more high-end than SP!

Well, a serious point from me would be that I would personally be a bit disappointed if Hobbywing just made a Tekin-mimicking software update.

The Tekin system is easy to set up incorrectly and is very sensitive to the motor timing. You can over-time the Tekin if you are not careful. The Hobbywing is much easier to deal with.

In terms of the perceived compromise between bottom end and top end compared to a Tekin - I don't really see it on the track. I actually prefer the feel of the bottom end punch from a low-timing high-ratio motor setup than from a high-timing low-ratio setup.

I'm currently racing rubber/carpet at a club track which is 20x8m approx, and a regional series on a 30x16m track. I am losing nothing to anyone in terms of punch or speed. My driving standard is good enough to be able to feel the differences between power delivery, although I don't doubt that there are posters on this thread who can run quicker laps than me.
I am a pretty bad driver, i know very little about car setup, i have very limited experience of touringcars or rc cars at all for that matter.
I have not compared the hobbywing to the Tekin and said that the Tekin is better.You must be confusing me with someone else.

I have however done alot of reading and trying to learn as much as i can about this new dynamic timing timing stuff. I have been running these stock softwares from the SP107-HW518 since they came out in my 2wd buggy and i have almost nothing but praise for Hobbywing and like to think of myself as something of an "ambassadeur" for Hobbywing in my club as the earliest adopter.

I don't think i would buy a Tekin if the price was the same as a Hobbywing as i love the LCD programmer and it's ease of use.
Well on a second thought maybe if Tekin was first with that multipoint dynamic timing curve and downloadable setup files derived from dyno runs i predicted earlier...

My only agenda in this debate is to raise the question if it can be beneficial to reduce static motor endbell timing and replace it with dynamic timing in the ESC.
Nothing else.
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