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Old 12-07-2010, 05:32 PM   #1846
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Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
Hi guys

Nice information and interesting but most of you have fogotten one important factor and thatis driver ability .

No matter how much timing a company may it be tekin ,hobbywing,lrp ,castle creations or whoever puts into there esc's and motors it doesnt mean your going to win the race correct? It will not give you any advantage over the pro guy or the veteran club guy .The pro guy would still win by 2 laps even using a cheaper esc lower end esc as he has many years of experience as a driver and that goes with the veteran club guy .

I could attach two motors and two esc's and 2 batterys to a car and give it to any of you with not that much experience and you will still not win .Probably not finsh the race as the reliablity is gone .

It's all about the ability of the driver and not the horse power behind the car .

the other things is marc rhiehard won the world title using a Hobbywing designed and manufactured speed passion GT series using designed and implemented software the same your using today on you sp's and hobbywings but what won him the race was his setup and his ability as a driver and not the horse power available on demand .

ok the end of that .

Hobbywing is looking at ways that they can improve there products in ways of hardware and software but to the extent of the product being reliable .

Ill kepp all you guys imformed
Pretty much sums everything up
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Old 12-07-2010, 06:49 PM   #1847
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Pretty much sums everything up
thank you
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Old 12-07-2010, 07:42 PM   #1848
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OTOH

If Hobbywing doesn't keep up with the other ESCs in terms of pure speed (talking about stock classes with any motor 10.5-21.5) then all the good drivers (and people shopping for ESCs) will soon be using the other guys ESCs.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:34 AM   #1849
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I don't know why you guys keep on saying Hobbywing is not as fast as the other ESC. As I said earlier I'm running Tekin as well as Hobbywing XeRun 120A, with the right gearing set up both esc are running about the same lap time. On a very long straight and I mean a very long straight like 200+ft then only the Tekin has a very very slight advantage in top speed, BUT even that can't make you overtake cleanly, its just enough to close down just a bit and you need to have a very good eye to see the difference in speed. For me there is no speed problem with Hobbywing at all.
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:45 AM   #1850
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Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
Hi guys

Nice information and interesting but most of you have fogotten one important factor and thatis driver ability ...
Yes at club level driving ability is by far the dominant factor; I've been racing for 16 years and I'm more than good enough to win at club level even if I don't have the quickest car.

But when you go to national level all the drivers are good. A driver with inferior equipment will NOT win at national level. At this level, you have to be the best driver AND have the best equipment to win.

Mark winning the worlds with a SP is irrelevant; he was running in mod where advance timing isn't really used. As someone else mentioned; this discussion is about improving the timing advance for stock racing. Its not about mod racing, or about how good a driver I may be.

It sounds like what you're saying is that the HW is fast enough for drivers at club level and very reliable, and you're not that interested in those of us that want more performance at national level where a couple of tenths a lap can equate to 10 positions on the grid. If so then that's actually fair enough; at 50 including shipping to the UK the HW is 1/3rd the price of the Tekin, you don't need a laptop, and it's more reliable, so for 95% of drivers its a brilliant choice.

I still have more testing to do to decide if it will be fast enough for me...
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:22 AM   #1851
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I don't know why you guys keep on saying Hobbywing is not as fast as the other ESC. As I said earlier I'm running Tekin as well as Hobbywing XeRun 120A, with the right gearing set up both esc are running about the same lap time. On a very long straight and I mean a very long straight like 200+ft then only the Tekin has a very very slight advantage in top speed, BUT even that can't make you overtake cleanly, its just enough to close down just a bit and you need to have a very good eye to see the difference in speed. For me there is no speed problem with Hobbywing at all.
dameetz, probably HW should be priced 10~20 bucks cheaper than the Tekin to earn some respect

As for the rest, it is THE bargain of the century. Hate me.
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:24 AM   #1852
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Originally Posted by dameetz View Post
I don't know why you guys keep on saying Hobbywing is not as fast as the other ESC. As I said earlier I'm running Tekin as well as Hobbywing XeRun 120A, with the right gearing set up both esc are running about the same lap time. On a very long straight and I mean a very long straight like 200+ft then only the Tekin has a very very slight advantage in top speed, BUT even that can't make you overtake cleanly, its just enough to close down just a bit and you need to have a very good eye to see the difference in speed. For me there is no speed problem with Hobbywing at all.
With the short straight at my track, I can clearly see (as can the HobbyWing drivers) that my Tekin is faster at the end of the straight. Not enough to overtake, but it is faster - at our _short_ straight. I would love to see it at a slightly longer straight - then I would probably overtake them on the straight.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:48 AM   #1853
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Yes at club level driving ability is by far the dominant factor; I've been racing for 16 years and I'm more than good enough to win at club level even if I don't have the quickest car.

But when you go to national level all the drivers are good. A driver with inferior equipment will NOT win at national level. At this level, you have to be the best driver AND have the best equipment to win.

Mark winning the worlds with a SP is irrelevant; he was running in mod where advance timing isn't really used. As someone else mentioned; this discussion is about improving the timing advance for stock racing. Its not about mod racing, or about how good a driver I may be.

It sounds like what you're saying is that the HW is fast enough for drivers at club level and very reliable, and you're not that interested in those of us that want more performance at national level where a couple of tenths a lap can equate to 10 positions on the grid. If so then that's actually fair enough; at 50 including shipping to the UK the HW is 1/3rd the price of the Tekin, you don't need a laptop, and it's more reliable, so for 95% of drivers its a brilliant choice.

I still have more testing to do to decide if it will be fast enough for me...
I'm with all the way here Dale!
The Hobbywings are clearly the absolutely best if you take price in to cosideration and certainly much better than i need at my modest level of driving.
As Dale exelently put it here Hobbywing have no obligation to improve the stock software any more but i think the hardware have a bit juice left to be squeezed out!

To me it seems obvious (i may be wrong though) that it could potentially be an advantage to be able to turn the static timing down on the endbell to perhaps 0-deg and let the ESC add that timing dynamicly.
In the higher wind classes 17.5T-25.5T the ESC do not have enough timing avalible in software to do this.
The ESC have 29-deg of software timing 21 dynamic and 8 turbo. If it has any static timing in the software Angelo (Cobraracing) never answered...so don't know.
This could be a problem as Hobbywings motors currently don't have adjustable timing.
It could also be a problem with those people that "turn it to max and see if it works..."

Experience have shown that dynamic timing is an advantage. I would not be surpriced if in the future we download setupfiles for different motors with multipoint dynamic timing curves that have been meashured in dyno to be the most efficient for a specific motor...
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:04 AM   #1854
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...I would not be surpriced if in the future we download setupfiles for different motors with multipoint dynamic timing curves that have been meashured in dyno to be the most efficient for a specific motor...
i'm looking forward to hydraulic servos!
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:19 AM   #1855
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I'm with all the way here Dale!
The Hobbywings are clearly the absolutely best if you take price in to cosideration and certainly much better than i need at my modest level of driving.
As Dale exelently put it here Hobbywing have no obligation to improve the stock software any more but i think the hardware have a bit juice left to be squeezed out!

To me it seems obvious (i may be wrong though) that it could potentially be an advantage to be able to turn the static timing down on the endbell to perhaps 0-deg and let the ESC add that timing dynamicly.
In the higher wind classes 17.5T-25.5T the ESC do not have enough timing avalible in software to do this.
The ESC have 29-deg of software timing 21 dynamic and 8 turbo. If it has any static timing in the software Angelo (Cobraracing) never answered...so don't know.
This could be a problem as Hobbywings motors currently don't have adjustable timing.
It could also be a problem with those people that "turn it to max and see if it works..."

Experience have shown that dynamic timing is an advantage. I would not be surpriced if in the future we download setupfiles for different motors with multipoint dynamic timing curves that have been meashured in dyno to be the most efficient for a specific motor...
watch out with using full timing on a motor as you use timing on the speedo. to much timing is also not working with dynamic timing.
motor timing is there from the start and all the timing that comes in ad ones, make the motor head up faster.
I can set my Tekin motor on 24 timing but it is most of the time ad 4 to 6 with a max of 10.

Can I compare a HW with a SP speedo?
same power?
Going to race against a SP driver on a small indoor track with a 13,5T this saterday and sunday.
He asked the owner of the track if he could come. The only driver that I now that has a SP out here.
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:00 AM   #1856
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Yes toptek i am fully aware of that and i am talking about absoulte timing not most motors standard "0" wich seems to be about 24-30deg static timing. (Hobbywing 24deg, Novak 30deg)

I started with moderate settings in the ESC and about 2deg of (absolute) endbell timing on my Ballistic 17.5T. I pretty soon realised i had to max both dynamic timing and turbo on the ESC if i was to have som rip and are now up to 10deg of absolute endbell timing wich i will try to up a little bit more on the next practice.
So i am currently up to 39deg total timing if it's correct that the ESC has 29deg.

Yes you can about compare SP to HW. Same hardware slightly different software i think.
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:05 AM   #1857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snabbgas
I would not be surpriced if in the future we download setupfiles for different motors with multipoint dynamic timing curves that have been meashured in dyno to be the most efficient for a specific motor...
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Originally Posted by cheapskate.brok View Post
i'm looking forward to hydraulic servos!
Keep laughing. When that day comes i will say, i told you so!
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:12 AM   #1858
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Yes toptek i am fully aware of that and i am talking about absoulte timing not most motors standard "0" wich seems to be about 24-30deg static timing. (Hobbywing 24deg, Novak 30deg)

I started with moderate settings in the ESC and about 2deg of (absolute) endbell timing on my Ballistic 17.5T. I pretty soon realised i had to max both dynamic timing and turbo on the ESC if i was to have som rip and are now up to 10deg of absolute endbell timing wich i will try to up a little bit more on the next practice.
So i am currently up to 39deg total timing if it's correct that the ESC has 29deg.

Yes you can about compare SP to HW. Same hardware slightly different software i think.
Better would be as you had more timing.
Als changeble timing on the motor would be better.
You can dan ballance you timing between the speedo and the motor.

I am now on the track and the SP driver is on his way.
He wants to run some practice runs for the race of sunday.

What is the motor temp?
with 39 total timing my motor stays ad room temp.
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:18 AM   #1859
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Can someone help?

Apparently the HW software is slow. But my car is ballistic on small/medium indoor tracks.

What have I done wrong? Is it because I'm using Hobbywing's suggested settings? Should I be listening to trackside Tekin experts instead?
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:31 AM   #1860
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Better would be as you had more timing.
Als changeble timing on the motor would be better.
You can dan ballance you timing between the speedo and the motor.

I am now on the track and the SP driver is on his way.
He wants to run some practice runs for the race of sunday.

What is the motor temp?
with 39 total timing my motor stays ad room temp.
The Ballistic have ifinitly adjustable timing so thats cool.
My motortemp seems to be around 60deg Celsius and i had it up to 80deg with a heavy throttlefinger and taller gearing.

Do the Tekin display actual degrees of timing? I think i heard somware that about 60deg of total timing is about max that can be added without severe adverse effects.
Also is the Tekin motors marked in absolute terms of timing starting at 0deg?

Have a really great time racing! I am soo jealous!

Last edited by snabbgas; 12-08-2010 at 07:57 AM. Reason: Spelling
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