R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Radio and Electronics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-06-2010, 02:48 AM   #1831
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denmark
Posts: 562
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
Tekin have motors above the specific kv ratings for a particular wind so yes they do have bigger top end so thats why you see the tekin being fast on the top .were hobbywings 10.5T is a star configuration motor winding with 3200-3500kv the tekin is 4500kv same wind but in a delta configuration giving the motor more rpm .
It isn't the Tekin motors that gives them the higher top-speed. I don't own a Tekin motor - I race with a Speed Passion V3, and still experience higher top speeds than Hobbywing users. BUT... It's not a lot.
__________________
Niklas Hansen
Team TCHobby / Team Upgrade-RC
Tamiya TRF417 / Speed Passion GT2.0 / Speed Passion V3 motors.
Nilks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2010, 03:54 AM   #1832
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 93
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
Dynamic static is just more accurate but they both create heat the only difference is that stating timing calculates even the false paths thats all but they both create heat no matter what more timing more heat even when you bring both together* as hybrid timing verification they still create heat.

Thank you michael for your advice we will take in on board but we at hobbywing design reliable products and not in the business or producing time bombs .Racers are won with reliability,setup and the drivers ability not speed and advance timing to the extent of the esc becoming a time bomb.

Ive seen on many occasions a pro driver using a hobbywing and smashing a field of tekins and lrp's by 3 laps and other times ive seen a pro driver smahing the field running a tekin .I guess its each to there own but its the drivers ability and the reliability of the product including battery's that wins the race .




.
It sounds more to me like you are talking about the differances between sensor Vs sensorless and not fixed timing (like the timing being applied by the sensorposition on the endbell) and dynamic timing(wich amount being applied is depending on the actual rpm of the motor.

It just seems smarter to me like others are trying to say to minimising the static endbell timing and adding it in a more controlled manner dynamicly.
And for higher wind motors this means that more dynamic timing has to be avalible!
(Remember i am talkin true zero enbell timing and not the "zero" marked on most motors!"

That way you can choose when to apply the timing with the use of the speedcontrollers dynamic timing settings. Wich in turn should help the motor to run more efficient and cooler.
snabbgas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2010, 04:29 AM   #1833
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 93
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
No one is going to discredit you not now not later .You as a customer or as a consumer have a right to your opinion and we as a manufacturer must sit back and listen to your concerns and work out a way how we can make you happy and keep you running our brand .

Tekin have motors above the specific kv ratings for a particular wind so yes they do have bigger top end so thats why you see the tekin being fast on the top .were hobbywings 10.5T is a star configuration motor winding with 3200-3500kv the tekin is 4500kv same wind but in a delta configuration giving the motor more rpm .

Being fast is one thing but finishing the race is another with so much running at peak levels what are the chances of top reliability and finishing the race .
I take it for VERY unlikely that Tekin would have passed ROAR classification if their motors were Deltawound...

I think it is more likely that they have more static timing built in.
snabbgas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2010, 04:51 AM   #1834
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1
Default reply to thead

yes you can .same unit.
wynsue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2010, 06:54 AM   #1835
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,046
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Yeah, sorry to beat a dead horse here, but I was strictly speaking about ESC's. I've tested both back-to-back with the same motor (typically a DUO2 or SPv3) and while the HW feels like it has more rip out of the turns, and it's certainly easier to drive, it produces slower lap times. Clearly nobody else thinks there's a problem, so I'll just leave it at that. Thanks for the replies everybody.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2010, 01:16 PM   #1836
Tech Adept
 
chinaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 141
Default

too fast or too slow or not enough timing or recording slow lap times or running too cold or hot or no top end ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
... I have a meeting with Michael in China next week and lets see what he says ... It will be discussed I promise you that and we will do some more testing on your request and we will post the info on this thread ...
__________________
... wyrd bi ful rd ...

Last edited by chinaman; 12-07-2010 at 02:37 AM.
chinaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2010, 03:10 PM   #1837
Tech Elite
 
COBRARACING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,207
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snabbgas View Post
I take it for VERY unlikely that Tekin would have passed ROAR classification if their motors were Deltawound...

I think it is more likely that they have more static timing built in.
MOTOR P/N TURNS WATTS KV ROTOR
Redline Sensored 2.5 TT2261 2.5 730 11,900 13mm
Redline Sensored 3.5 TT2260 3.5 630 10,800 13mm
Redline Sensored 4.5 TT2259 4.5 535 9,300 13mm
Redline Sensored 5.5 TT2258 5.5 428 7,700 12.5mm
Redline Sensored 6.5 TT2257 6.5 404 6,700 12.5mm
Redline Sensored 7.5 TT2256 7.5 352 6,100 12.5mm
Redline Sensored 8.5 TT2255 8.5 295 5,300 12.5mm
Redline Sensored 9.5 TT2254 9.5 261 4,900 12.5mm
Redline Sensored 10.5 TT2253 10.5 243 4,500 12.5mm
compared to HW,Sp and many others at 3300kv .please read about increasing the kv rating and how its done its about the config of the wind .delta or star.

Redline Sensored 13.5 TT2252 13.5 201 3,500 12.5mm
Redline Sensored 17.5 TT2251 17.5 131 2,500 12.5mm
Redline Sensored 21.5 TT2250 21.5 88 2,100 12.5m
__________________
Email : teamcobraracing@gmail.com or ae@hobbywing.com
Repair service Address
Hobbywing Technology Co., Ltd.
4th Floor, 3rd Building, KeLunTe Industrial Park, ShangLiLang, BuLan Road, LongGang District, ShenZhen, China
COBRARACING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2010, 03:48 PM   #1838
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 185
Default

I was reading this toppic.
it is quit intresting to read the reactions about the HW vs Tekin.
first I want to say that I never drove against a HW or drove with so I don't say that one of the 2 is faster or better.
still the driver is the one that wins and not the speedo.
the small differences between the speedo doesn't make you the winner.

than advanced timing.
I have it now about the Tekin and how it works.
the timing comes in ad a rpm that you can choose.
the timing reaches his max ad the end rpm that is choosen
example.
start rpm 1000
end rpm 11000
timing set on 50
than you get a window of 10000 rpm.
every 1000 rpm there is 5 degrease of timing added.

now every body is talking that more timing creats more head. this is right but because of the advanced timing, this is lowerd so there can more timing added to the motor.
a motor can handle more timing as it runs ad a higher rpm. so the higher rpm the more timing can be added to the motor. this makes it posible that you can reach a higher top speed.
as the car drives away, than it needs power. the power is the highest with the timing on 0. (talking about the speedo timing and going out from a motor with pre set timing)
by a narrower window you get a higher accelaration.
as you use the first meters with 0 timing on the speedo, you get the best acceleration and you can gear it heavier.

than the motor.
it is nice to see the Kv ratings but this is not the reason why the Tekin motor is faster.
it depends on the timing on the motor.
all motors with the same timing on the motor will give close Kv ratings.
there is only one thing that is different with the motors and that is there sweet point of timing and gearing.
some motors like more timing wile other motors like a heavier gearing and less timing.
each motor want his own gearing and timing.

advanced timing is deffenetly keeping the motor cooler when setup right.
toptek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2010, 04:30 PM   #1839
Tech Addict
 
jake95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sydney
Posts: 669
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jake95 View Post
i need a setup for 21.5 with the stock software fdr ect
thanks
anyone else
__________________
XRAY✯NOSRAM✯SANWA
jake95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2010, 06:20 PM   #1840
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 93
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
MOTOR P/N TURNS WATTS KV ROTOR
Redline Sensored 2.5 TT2261 2.5 730 11,900 13mm
Redline Sensored 3.5 TT2260 3.5 630 10,800 13mm
Redline Sensored 4.5 TT2259 4.5 535 9,300 13mm
Redline Sensored 5.5 TT2258 5.5 428 7,700 12.5mm
Redline Sensored 6.5 TT2257 6.5 404 6,700 12.5mm
Redline Sensored 7.5 TT2256 7.5 352 6,100 12.5mm
Redline Sensored 8.5 TT2255 8.5 295 5,300 12.5mm
Redline Sensored 9.5 TT2254 9.5 261 4,900 12.5mm
Redline Sensored 10.5 TT2253 10.5 243 4,500 12.5mm
compared to HW,Sp and many others at 3300kv .please read about increasing the kv rating and how its done its about the config of the wind .delta or star.

Redline Sensored 13.5 TT2252 13.5 201 3,500 12.5mm
Redline Sensored 17.5 TT2251 17.5 131 2,500 12.5mm
Redline Sensored 21.5 TT2250 21.5 88 2,100 12.5m
No!

ROAR don't mess around with essential things like connecting a motor Wye(star) or Delta.

I think iv'e heard someware that a Delta connection makes the squareroot of Pi or 1.77 times more power than Wye or something along those lines...

Quote:
8.8.2.3.3 ROAR Spec 10.5 motor: Only three slot Y wound stators are permitted. No delta wound or slot less stators are allowed. Only circular (round) pure copper magnet wire permitted. The three slotted stator must be wound with 10.5 turns of 2 strands of a maximum diameter of 20AWG or 0.813mm and two strands of a maximum diameter of 22AWG or 0.643mm per slot. The resistance for each slot of the stator shall be tested and a minimum resistance figure will be determined upon submittal.
It is very easy to get a high Kv by adding more endbell timing but torque suffers.
That is also why it could be a really good idea to have more timing avalible in software!
snabbgas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 04:08 AM   #1841
Tech Master
 
Benzaah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,966
Trader Rating: 21 (96%+)
Default

IMO Numbers on a page dont mean crap as I have not raced against a fast tekin motor yet and i think the much loved SPV3 is average against the Mighty Duo2 Regardless of brand speedy A better driver knows set up and knows that with a slower more consistent car he is always going to beat a hack in an straight line missile

The only difference at our club between the HW and Tekin users is driving ability as most of the experienced guys are running about the same speed just different consistency.
__________________
AERCCC - ARCR - RRCSA

Adelaide RC

Walter Rc Hobby
Benzaah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 07:50 AM   #1842
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 93
Default

Yeah, but this thread is all about the Hobbywing Stock firmware and its
development towards being better and faster and not
about car setup or how to be a better driver...

As such all this talk about timing, dynamic or static or whatever is highly relevant!

And i think "numbers on a page" would mean quite alot to you if you were racing
Hobbywing against boosted Tekins in the days prior to Hobbywings Stock firmware
snabbgas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 01:15 PM   #1843
Tech Adept
 
millbank's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GFT View Post
Dear All,

I need help on what to do to reduce motor temp.

The track I run has a straight approximately 130-150ft with flowing infield.
The ratio I used in 7.7 on a LRP X12 10.5 with light weight cooling motor can upgrade added to give it better cooling.

ESC : Hobbywing 120A XERUN with upgraded caps, 4 caps with approx 1600 micro farad.

S/w : 518
ESC Setting :
DDRS : 3
9 : 4
12 : 4
13 : 7
14 : 4
15 : 7

Track surface temp is 55 celsius
After 5 min run, motor temp is 97 Celsius. The run is pace with another similar brand car, motor , ratio is 8 and different brand esc. The other car temp is lower. Both car have similar pace and speed

Previously ran this motor with another ESC on the same layout. The motor temp is approx. 8 degree celsius cooler under similar track and air conditions.

The motor is cooled using a big 40mm fan which is super efficient and big volume of air.

Any recommendation on what I can do to keep the motor cooler.

Thank you in advance.

sc
make sure the motor is set at -10 degree timing
__________________
Xray T2009 / hobbywing v3 120amp /LRP x12 6.5 / wet car
Xray t4'14 / Hobbywing v3 120amp / 13.5/ boost car
Xray t4'15 / Orca Vxx / Orca Rx3 17.5 / blinky car
TEAM DRIVER FOR MMR FLUX
millbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 02:42 PM   #1844
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Northern Virginia, USA
Posts: 499
Default

I just got a new xerun 120A esc. I also ordered a cap for it because I didn't realize that one was included with it. The one included has 2 caps, and the extra I ordered has 4. Should I leave the 2 cap on there, replace it with the 4 cap, or can I run them both? Thanks.
Stregone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2010, 05:29 PM   #1845
Tech Elite
 
COBRARACING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,207
Default

Hi guys

Nice information and interesting but most of you have fogotten one important factor and thatis driver ability .

No matter how much timing a company may it be tekin ,hobbywing,lrp ,castle creations or whoever puts into there esc's and motors it doesnt mean your going to win the race correct? It will not give you any advantage over the pro guy or the veteran club guy .The pro guy would still win by 2 laps even using a cheaper esc lower end esc as he has many years of experience as a driver and that goes with the veteran club guy .

I could attach two motors and two esc's and 2 batterys to a car and give it to any of you with not that much experience and you will still not win .Probably not finsh the race as the reliablity is gone .

It's all about the ability of the driver and not the horse power behind the car .

the other things is marc rhiehard won the world title using a Hobbywing designed and manufactured speed passion GT series using designed and implemented software the same your using today on you sp's and hobbywings but what won him the race was his setup and his ability as a driver and not the horse power available on demand .

ok the end of that .

Hobbywing is looking at ways that they can improve there products in ways of hardware and software but to the extent of the product being reliable .

Ill kepp all you guys imformed
__________________
Email : teamcobraracing@gmail.com or ae@hobbywing.com
Repair service Address
Hobbywing Technology Co., Ltd.
4th Floor, 3rd Building, KeLunTe Industrial Park, ShangLiLang, BuLan Road, LongGang District, ShenZhen, China
COBRARACING is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 07:33 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0