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Old 11-25-2010, 03:18 AM   #1726
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Originally Posted by Shawn68z View Post
Have a question about the timing in the newer firmwares (518/528).

When using Boost, why does the speedo get rid of the static timing from the ESC? And could there be a newer version of the firmware that allows more boost.

Currently, I would have to run 20deg (endbell), 21deg (Boost), and 8 deg (turbo). (Total 49deg).

Other manufactures are able to run 0 deg endbell, 10deg static (same as endbell), and 40 deg boost, 10 deg turbo.


My last question is about the 518/528 FWs. I read somewhere in this forum that there is a difference between the two with the timing values, and the Timing Punch. Is there any charts (like the one in the manual) that shows the difference between the two FW's ?

One last question. Does the overheat protection work with Novak Ballistic motors? The manual states that motor overheat will only work with HW motors.

Thanks,
Shawn.
A big question here is, does the 518 software have a static timing even with every timing parameter set to zero?

It was talked about earlier that the 518 was faster than 508 even with everything set to zero.
I myself recalled a significant increase in revs when installing the 518 from what came with the Esc even with everything off.

If this is true, how many degrees are we talking about? Would be nice to know when comparing to different brands of Esc:s

Michael of Hobbywing should be able to answer exactly how it works...maybe Cobra to?

Last edited by snabbgas; 11-25-2010 at 07:23 AM. Reason: Spelling.
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Old 11-25-2010, 05:46 AM   #1727
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Originally Posted by snabbgas View Post
A big question here is, does the 518 software have a static timing even with evey timing parameter set to zero?

It was talked about earlier that the 518 was faster than 508 even with everything set to zero.
I myself recalled a significant increase in revs when installing the 518 from what came with the Esc even with everything off.

If this is true, how many degrees are we talking about? Would be nice to know when comparing to different brands of Esc:s

Michael of Hobbywing should be able to answer exactly how it works...maybe Cobra to?
like i said before the AMTS is Replaced with DMTS
sometimes initialed with ~ (tilde) which is Dynamic rather than Static,
it's Been Designed to Maintain Torque as much as possible during rpm and timing increment.

Fixed Timing stayed on Motors, others is Software,
but if using the safe Motor which is 0 Timing only
add Static would be the better solution.
cause Physical Timing could accidentally Slip over.
and causing all system failed and motor burned.



anyway Zero timing Firmware is so old since i have been using it
since 2003. it's useless.
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:38 AM   #1728
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... The Actual Fixed Timing is on The motor freely to be adjusted physically 0-60Deg ...
add more The Advanced Timing such ex: 0~26Deg
put the Phicical Timing 15+26=41Deg During The Dynamic Advanced Timing
only ... Where SC Timing and SC TP add more than that
EX: after PT+DMTS=41Deg then +8DEG of SCT = 49Deg (almost 50Deg here)
then 49Deg of Timing During the SCT add more after that to reach it's
maximum Timing, Such 1 Deg per Certain RPM ex:
49 Deg + 1Deg every new 1000RPM,
So if your RPM increase 2000 RPM after the SCT
the SCTP ad more 2Deg Timing (49Deg + 2DEG = 51DEG)
...
Let me try to get this ...

As you rev up the motor ... using the extreme stock (HW) as an example here and from the manual ...

1) The esc do not add any timing until the rpm reaches the Boost Start RPM (option 13) ... all there is, is the 'fixed timing' from the motor???
2) After the Boost Start RPM, timing increases as set under (option 9), otherwise known as 'Dynamic Advanced Timing'??? assuming this will vary accordingly throughout the whole range of RPM above that of 'Boost Start RPM'???
3) At full throttle, 'Turbo Timing' or 'Supercharger Timing' (option 12) comes into effect???

So when does that 'Timing Punch' (option 15) comes into effect???

I thought what you set as the 'Timing Punch' is the rate of change of timing of the esc as a whole???

So in your example above, I agree up to 49 ... but the additional 2, I am a bit sceptikal. I thought the rate you set of 1/1000RPM will be effective throughout the range of the 'Dynamic Advanced Timing' (26)+ 'Supercharger Timing' (8), as the 15 is already fixed???

So max timing is 49??? After Boost Start RPM, the timing (26 + 8) will increase by 1/1000RPM???


On a different note, for my xtreme stock, the 'Dynamic Advanced Timing' is maxed at 21. So I am only able to reach (21 + 8)
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Last edited by chinaman; 11-25-2010 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 11-25-2010, 06:04 PM   #1729
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Originally Posted by chinaman View Post
Let me try to get this ...

As you rev up the motor ... using the extreme stock (HW) as an example here and from the manual ...

1) The esc do not add any timing until the rpm reaches the Boost Start RPM (option 13) ... all there is, is the 'fixed timing' from the motor???
2) After the Boost Start RPM, timing increases as set under (option 9), otherwise known as 'Dynamic Advanced Timing'??? assuming this will vary accordingly throughout the whole range of RPM above that of 'Boost Start RPM'???
3) At full throttle, 'Turbo Timing' or 'Supercharger Timing' (option 12) comes into effect???

So when does that 'Timing Punch' (option 15) comes into effect???

I thought what you set as the 'Timing Punch' is the rate of change of timing of the esc as a whole???

So in your example above, I agree up to 49 ... but the additional 2, I am a bit sceptikal. I thought the rate you set of 1/1000RPM will be effective throughout the range of the 'Dynamic Advanced Timing' (26)+ 'Supercharger Timing' (8), as the 15 is already fixed???

So max timing is 49??? After Boost Start RPM, the timing (26 + 8) will increase by 1/1000RPM???


On a different note, for my xtreme stock, the 'Dynamic Advanced Timing' is maxed at 21. So I am only able to reach (21 + 8)

The Timing control (#15) comes in at the start of the Boost RPM. It tells the controler how fast to ramp up the Boost Timing. The faster it comes in the more aggressive the acceleration. It will also add alot more heat to your motor. Once the ESC has reached the Max Boost+Turbo (if full throttle), it will no longer apply more timing to the motor, but the motor will continue to accelerate.
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Old 11-26-2010, 04:26 AM   #1730
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Originally Posted by snabbgas View Post
A big question here is, does the 518 software have a static timing even with every timing parameter set to zero?

It was talked about earlier that the 518 was faster than 508 even with everything set to zero.
I myself recalled a significant increase in revs when installing the 518 from what came with the Esc even with everything off.

If this is true, how many degrees are we talking about? Would be nice to know when comparing to different brands of Esc:s

Michael of Hobbywing should be able to answer exactly how it works...maybe Cobra to?
static timing is used on very complex digital circuits just to make them respond faster ,yes the xtreme stock and the 120 amp use static timing circuits .There are two factors that can change the timing analysis and that is temperature and voltages .to complex to get into at this stage .

The increase in revs that you are seeing is not from the esc with everything set to zero thats from your motor as believe me when i tell you no motor has zero timing even adjustable they all have some sort of fixed timing one way or the other nothing is zero as they would be slugs .

Ill get a chart together so you understand the difference between the 518 and 508 ok.But just to let you know 508 has no timing at all zero timing .the timing you mioght feel is from the fixed timing of your motor .

regards Angelo
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Old 11-26-2010, 07:58 AM   #1731
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for anyone running off road- here is the set up I have been using lately with the 120a and 60a in a 2wd car and truck with a 13.5 HW motor

1- forward/brake
2-3.0 cutoff
3- 30% drag brake (i like alot)
4- DRRS - 7
5- brake force - 100%
6- reverse force- 25%
7- initial brake - 20%
8- neutral 6%
9- timing 22.5*
10- over hear enable
12- turbo - 6
13- RPM - 7500
14 delay .4
15- punch -4
hei bro...
thanks for the guide line...
no problem...i was busy too...hehehe...
again,appreciate it bro

as mention by mc4798, nikos2002 and many other rc pros and lovers...
these setting arent the most accurate and best setting for each car/driver...but atleast its a start/benchmark for other driver especially a beginner like me to work with...
finally,it all depends on the driver passion and commitment to learn and make the necessary adjustment base on the track,rc and driving skills
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:08 AM   #1732
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Off Road is a little different than on road- there really isnt one magical FDR.

It depends on track layout, traction, jumps, driving style, chassis and gearbox ratio.

I mostly run on med to high bite clay surfaces, jumps where car control in the air is helpful because you need the right attitude for landing. The straights aren't all that long. You gear for the track more than ultimate straight line speed. There have been days when i need more torque to clear a jump that I gear down tooth or two just for that. Sacriface the straight line speed for clearing that triple (as an example).

If you want to know with my TQ cars
2wd 13.5 - 80-27
Truck 13.5 - 86-24 (I think off the top of my head)
4wd 8.5 - 85-21 (10.5 85-23)

Like they said above, everyone likes things a little different, I like a lot of drag brake, some don't, some like different DRRS, I am happy with my profile settings, they seem to work well for me.
hei bro...
im currently running my 4wd buggy with Xerun 120A + Rx1 11.5T + FDR 1:8.13...

question is: what is the maximum safety temperature for both the esc and motor...

*question is also open to all....

big thanks to all
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:37 AM   #1733
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The increase in revs that you are seeing is not from the esc with everything set to zero thats from your motor as believe me when i tell you no motor has zero timing even adjustable they all have some sort of fixed timing one way or the other nothing is zero as they would be slugs .

That does not explain why i see a increase in revs from firmware 323 to stockfirmware when both are set to zero.

I have seen somewhere that a Hobbywing motor has about 24* of timing built in.

Do you mean that the 323 firmware chooses to ignore this 24* and a stock firmware chooses to apply it when both are set to 0?
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Old 11-26-2010, 01:15 PM   #1734
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so sorry to intervene,
my esc is flashing green while in neutral position which means over-heat protection right?
i happen quite quickly...

so how could i reduce the esc temperature??
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Old 11-26-2010, 01:38 PM   #1735
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Hegal
- make sure drivetrain is free spinning, no binding
- make sure gear mesh not too tight pinion/spur
- gear down (Smaller pinion)
- lower value of turbo setting, timing, DRRS)
- make sure air is getting to esc (may need a hole in body)
- make sure fan on esc
- make sure throttle end point on radio is at 100%. I turned mine down to 40 one time so my son could drive, it thernmaled after a minute. O
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Old 11-26-2010, 07:43 PM   #1736
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Originally Posted by snabbgas View Post
That does not explain why i see a increase in revs from firmware 323 to stockfirmware when both are set to zero.

I have seen somewhere that a Hobbywing motor has about 24* of timing built in.

Do you mean that the 323 firmware chooses to ignore this 24* and a stock firmware chooses to apply it when both are set to 0?
How do you see an increase in rpm? by sight or by rpm log let me know by sight is not good enough information sorry .I need more info how do you know? yes fixed motors from hobbywing and many others have fixed timing from anywhere between 18 degree to 24 degree.
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:30 PM   #1737
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Kinda off topic, but has anybody run the Xtreme Stock ESC with the Hobbywing 17.5T brushless motor? I ask because the combo kit seems to be a good deal, and the motor would sure look nice in my Tamiya. I guess I'm just wondering how this combo would hold against the other super-stock ESCs and 17.5 motors.

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Old 11-27-2010, 02:44 AM   #1738
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How do you see an increase in rpm? by sight or by rpm log let me know by sight is not good enough information sorry .I need more info how do you know? yes fixed motors from hobbywing and many others have fixed timing from anywhere between 18 degree to 24 degree.
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Originally Posted by goos View Post
the 518 is not a notiming software, it has plenty of boost built in even at "zero" settings.

So yes the 518 is much faster but also illegal.
By ear, i have absolute intonation
It was a long time i myself made the switch and it could have been from 323 to 422 or even 107-110 but i remember noting an increase in revs.

If that and what goos is saying above is correct it must imply that stock firmware are adding some sort of static timing even when set to "0".

It would be really interesting to know how it works!
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Old 11-27-2010, 08:34 AM   #1739
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Hegal
- make sure drivetrain is free spinning, no binding
- make sure gear mesh not too tight pinion/spur
- gear down (Smaller pinion)
- lower value of turbo setting, timing, DRRS)
- make sure air is getting to esc (may need a hole in body)
- make sure fan on esc
- make sure throttle end point on radio is at 100%. I turned mine down to 40 one time so my son could drive, it thernmaled after a minute. O
thanks again..
will surely check 1-by-1 again...

oh,im using the 4 caps upgrade frm HW n it was located next to the esc...does this have a major contribution to the esc over-heat..
nway,i've moved it just in case...

really need to test my buggy on the track but it pouring cats & dogs everyday here...
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Old 11-27-2010, 10:18 AM   #1740
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thanks again..
will surely check 1-by-1 again...

oh,im using the 4 caps upgrade frm HW n it was located next to the esc...does this have a major contribution to the esc over-heat..
nway,i've moved it just in case...

really need to test my buggy on the track but it pouring cats & dogs everyday here...
The caps should help the ESC running alittle cooler. They smooth out the voltages, and give the extra little bit of current when the load spikes.

Shawn
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