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Old 08-09-2016, 05:18 PM   #1
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Exclamation Attention Veteran RD's; Newer RD searching for advice!

Hello everyone,

As some of you guys know, Rd-ing is much less than appreciated by many of todays racers...

I recently (well, last year, September sometime) committed to RD at the local off-road club. Since then I have kind of improved, but, I am looking for advice as to being stern but not sounding like a you know what.

Example; Last couple weeks have been people complaining about how I'm running the races, which, in personal racing experience, I'm giving the guys more than enough time to prep their trucks, buggies, etc to make the next race. Ive been cussed at for running them too fast, which ended up with me sort of losing my noodle at almost everyone, over the PA i said, if you're complaining about how I'm running this show, get in here and show me how its done. (most of these guys who complain are new comers with hot shot attitudes, and honestly, part of me wants to light them up and put them in their place. The older guys have done nothing but thank me, which tells me I'm doing not half bad.)

Last week was a STRUGGLE to get marshals out. even a group of 10 e buggy drivers, there was half the field missing to marshal. I threatened penalties after begging and pleading with people. I should NOT have to go that far.

What are you veteran RD's doing to get guys to marshal in a timely fashion? For a race that should have ended at 4:30 with delays, it ended at 5:45 because people were THAT slow getting to the track to marshal. Im not one to rush but i give away my Saturday's for free to help the members of the club, and lately its been nothing but piss poor cooperation from the newer members.

I was on the verge of walking away last week, but that would be a somewhat coward move of myself.

if you have any tips, thank you.
Colin.

PS; I'm 22 so if you have any advice on staying calm and collected, thats awesome too.
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Old 08-09-2016, 06:07 PM   #2
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I was at "THe Hank" last year which is Spokane WA and they had an ebuggy G-main, which doesn't include a nitro buggy and e truggy and nitro truggy. I think there were somewhere around 2-300 entries. Kudos the RD guys because they put a clock on everything. I think it was 5 mins between checkers and the next green. If u ar racing the next round, make sure you have your next car and marshall ready, it's that simple. If you aren't on the line, we went without you. Simple huh. You tell people this ahead of time and they should plan accordingly.

PS. I'm not an RD guy but we would have had the Amain at 2 am Monday if it wasn't done like this
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Old 08-10-2016, 05:40 AM   #3
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Well first be consistent. You bust one guy for an infraction you have to bust everybody else for the same infraction.

Getting people out to marshall is an age old problem. Everyone knows you marshall the race after yours, but everyone seems to have an excuse for not marshaling. Start with announcements "if your not on the track when I call your name you will be docked a lap" You'll be amazed at how fast people come out after that. Another method that works is the clock. Make it exactly 5 minutes (or less if necessary) and the next race starts, marshalls or not. The racers on the driver's stand will start doing your job for you.

And anything that happens while you're at the computer, leave it at the computer. There's no sense in bringing it with you. You'll just drive yourself crazy.
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Old 08-10-2016, 06:56 AM   #4
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To add to what Jim said. Anything you decide, have a drivers meeting at the beginning of the day and let everyone know how you're going to handle things. That way people can't try the old "But I didn't know." or "You didn't tell us that." trick...trust me they'll try.

You say this is a club. Who makes the final call on decisions? Do you have a club president? As the RD have them stand with you at the drivers meeting so people understand that you have the full support of the club pres. in any decisions you make. RD decisions must be final. If people can complain to the club pres. or track owner and get your decisions reversed you'll never get the respect needed to do your job.

Does your track have an impound table? It can be hard to get people to use it even if you have one (club races) but they do tend to help.

Flat out tell people in the drivers meeting. "There's no reason for people not to be ready if I give X number of minutes between races. As a driver, if you're not ready, I'm sorry but we're starting without you." Most tracks, and drivers will agree to a '2 minute clock' request if someone has an issue though.

Marshals...they basically get the same time between races as the drivers (you'll always have helpful people out to marshal right away to cover warm up) But if the drivers are all ready and you're waiting on one or two marshals a call over the PA saying "we're waiting on you Johnny slow pants" normally gets people moving. Nobody likes being called out on the PA because they're not doing what they're suppose to be (marshaling). If the between race time is up, Johnny STILL has to marshal AND he gets docked a lap. If he's not out to marshal reasonably close to the start of the race (if you have enough marshals to start without him) He gets to marshal the NEXT race and still loses a lap.

I'm not a RD but these are some of the things I've seen done over the years.
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Old 08-10-2016, 06:10 PM   #5
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Hey Buster,

I RD in Edmonton. Done the last two OCD's for them. Just saw you are from Calgary. You are coming to september OCD i hope?

Jim; I consider myself to be consistent. The ONLY people I am lenient on is the newcomers who have only been a couple times, who haven't quite wrapped their head around everything yet, and that IMO is what a good RD should do. The new guys I am mentioning have been here from late last year, and know darn well what the rules are.

1812; We mention it every drivers meeting, the club pres usually holds the meeting, people take him a little more serious because I am a younger kid. But, at the end when I say I'm calling penalties, this is your only warning today, he gets right in there and says what this guy says, goes, respect it. I have the entire exec on my side, always telling me its my race. Run 'my' Race they say.

We do have an impound table, however no one ever uses it. Which is hilarious, because they ALL put their cars on it at the end of the race to turn the electronics off, then mope back to their pits, then put the batteries on charge, then mope on to the track.

I will start implementing a time limit, I think that would be a good idea. At our large race beginning and end of each year, we ran 3 minutes between heats, with a 5 minute between for transition from electric to nitro, then 3 from nitro to nitro, and 3 from nitro to electric. I think that is more than fair, especially because the table is track side, and there is pit guys for the Nitro's that can take their stuff back to the pits.

I appreciate the input, I was 100% at a loss last week, maybe this week ill pull the "you have literately three minutes.... if not theres going to be a penalty" line.

I have noticed some guys do not care if they lose a lap because they are "fast" and are two laps up on the field. So i do not bring what type of penalty it is into scenario until it is actually taking place.

The word Penalty is taken very loosely here. lol
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Old 08-10-2016, 07:09 PM   #6
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Hey Buster,

I RD in Edmonton. Done the last two OCD's for them. Just saw you are from Calgary. You are coming to september OCD i hope?

Jim; I consider myself to be consistent. The ONLY people I am lenient on is the newcomers who have only been a couple times, who haven't quite wrapped their head around everything yet, and that IMO is what a good RD should do. The new guys I am mentioning have been here from late last year, and know darn well what the rules are.

1812; We mention it every drivers meeting, the club pres usually holds the meeting, people take him a little more serious because I am a younger kid. But, at the end when I say I'm calling penalties, this is your only warning today, he gets right in there and says what this guy says, goes, respect it. I have the entire exec on my side, always telling me its my race. Run 'my' Race they say.

We do have an impound table, however no one ever uses it. Which is hilarious, because they ALL put their cars on it at the end of the race to turn the electronics off, then mope back to their pits, then put the batteries on charge, then mope on to the track.

I will start implementing a time limit, I think that would be a good idea. At our large race beginning and end of each year, we ran 3 minutes between heats, with a 5 minute between for transition from electric to nitro, then 3 from nitro to nitro, and 3 from nitro to electric. I think that is more than fair, especially because the table is track side, and there is pit guys for the Nitro's that can take their stuff back to the pits.

I appreciate the input, I was 100% at a loss last week, maybe this week ill pull the "you have literately three minutes.... if not theres going to be a penalty" line.

I have noticed some guys do not care if they lose a lap because they are "fast" and are two laps up on the field. So i do not bring what type of penalty it is into scenario until it is actually taking place.

The word Penalty is taken very loosely here. lol
I most likely will make it to your next race. We always have a bit of a party there on Saturday and Sundays are a bit.....quiet..lol.

You were asking how some clubs seem to operate and "the Hank" was one of the bigger entry races I have been to. I ran 2 electric cars and my heats were pretty much back to back. You basically got to have 2 warmup laps and line up the next race. I thought it worked well. But then it was like 6 hours between heats after that. Not much u can do other than keep the program rolling. At your race, maybe 60 entries or so, this isn't so bad but Spokane had somewhere around 250 so this had to be done or it would have been a 24 hr operation...lol.

Penalties? If they don't care, they don't care. But if no marshalls, no race and you wait. The drivers have to police themselves. Hold up the race until they get out here and let it be known over the pa who you are waiting on. Ty Tessman was always one of the first marshalls out at our races and was also one of the first ones to volunteer. When you race rc, marshalling is part of the price of admission. I guess that's all I have.

You should think about The Hank next year. Not many from here went this year but almost a dozen the year before. We could all caravan down there.

You guys gotta do the funky tire race again this year
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Last edited by buster8787; 08-10-2016 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 08-10-2016, 08:21 PM   #7
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Drivers meeting before racing starts. A table for racers to drop their cars on just as they get off the stand. For some reason folks need to stare at their car a bit, or blow it off, wash tires, whatever as soon as their race is over and mashalling be damned. Turn the switch off, drop the car on the table, go marshal.

I love spending a day at the track be it onroad or offroad. I hate wasting time at the track though.

Being a track owner or RD is tough. Nobody will ever be happy, and someone will always think you're a dick for some reason or other. And others will like you for those same reasons.

I like the idea of starting races without marshals. Let the racers do their own policing, and maybe people will crash just a little bit less. hahahalol Right. I tell people that all the time though, when practicing marshal your own car. Guaranteed you'll start driving better.
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Old 08-10-2016, 08:48 PM   #8
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Default You do a pretty good job colin

Never had an Rd not let me Marshal without tieing my shoes, lol.
Stand firm, I'd drop a fastest qualifier for those that don't marshal or find a replacement. If it's the main then they get marked down as dnf.

We're a much smaller club up in gp but if your not racing your expected to marshal. If you have quick wrenching to do we will hold up the next race a couple minutes to try and get you fixed and running, but this only works as we have maybe six guys that show up regularly. Still my wife ends up marshaling every race.

Colin can you pm me on when you guys club race and start tines, I'd like to come get some practice in before the ocd I don't want it to go as bad as it did this spring for me
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Old 08-10-2016, 09:40 PM   #9
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I didn't suggest starting without marshals, but keep calling the marshal who is missing and don't start until he/she shows up. Eventually, everybody will be hollering at them.

PS. you have to have a thick skin to do anything like this even in your daily working life. Life lesson Collin, stick to your guns. (its lonely at the top and in the RD tower)
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Old 08-11-2016, 09:29 AM   #10
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I didn't suggest starting without marshals, but keep calling the marshal who is missing and don't start until he/she shows up. Eventually, everybody will be hollering at them.
lol, I mis-read your post. I still like the idea though

I did something an RD (my friend) didn't like one years back at the beginning of my heat race. He gave me a DNS for the round. Only thing that ticked me off is he didn't admit it, said the computer goofed up. BS, I was checked in and my PT worked before and after.

So if you're going to hand out a penalty don't BS about it, own it. Be matter-of-fact about it, don't get defensive or confrontational.

*edit*
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We do have an impound table, however no one ever uses it. Which is hilarious, because they ALL put their cars on it at the end of the race to turn the electronics off, then mope back to their pits, then put the batteries on charge, then mope on to the track.
This. If the racers are dropping their cars on the table already, it shouldn't be much work to train them to drop them on the table and go directly to their marshal spot. I can't figure out why folks think they have to immediately tend to batteries after a race. I only use 2S batts, but still. If you don't have time to get your batteries charged AFTER marshaling, then your doing something wrong. Get another battery, start it early, whatever.
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Old 08-11-2016, 04:31 PM   #11
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Not a problem. Where u at in MI, I used to race SCT at Larry's.

I think the key is that if you do it to one, you do it to all. You can't be selective. You just have to be consistent.
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Old 08-11-2016, 05:10 PM   #12
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lol, I mis-read your post. I still like the idea though

I did something an RD (my friend) didn't like one years back at the beginning of my heat race. He gave me a DNS for the round. Only thing that ticked me off is he didn't admit it, said the computer goofed up. BS, I was checked in and my PT worked before and after.

So if you're going to hand out a penalty don't BS about it, own it. Be matter-of-fact about it, don't get defensive or confrontational.

*edit*

This. If the racers are dropping their cars on the table already, it shouldn't be much work to train them to drop them on the table and go directly to their marshal spot. I can't figure out why folks think they have to immediately tend to batteries after a race. I only use 2S batts, but still. If you don't have time to get your batteries charged AFTER marshaling, then your doing something wrong. Get another battery, start it early, whatever.
I straight up do not BS about penalties. If people don't like the penalty, tough cookies and if they have an issue with the answer they get from me, I get the exec.

The table rule is going to be used in excess. ESPECIALLY at the OCD. I'm more than willing to wait 5 minutes between a round if someone comes at me and says i need to charge my battery a few more minutes. But, in the end, everyone is on the same playing field. Most people should buy a second and third 4 cell battery before they go and buy another kit.... But that is none of my business. That is why I don't race currently, I only have one pack. Its tough to charge it quick and not puff it.

All in all, have taken notes and have a slightly better approach to upcoming races, thanks guys!
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Old 08-11-2016, 07:51 PM   #13
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Not a problem. Where u at in MI, I used to race SCT at Larry's.

I think the key is that if you do it to one, you do it to all. You can't be selective. You just have to be consistent.
I'm near the Saginaw area of Michigan. I've never been to Larry's. Just back into the hobby last summer after 7-ish years away b/c I had twins. Used to race Pheasant Run, DirtBurners, Factory Tracks, Sandhill/Shortrac, etc.

I see you're in Alberta. I went to Calgary around '05, saw a sweet on-road club in a commercial district there, as well as an awesome off-road track. I was totally jones'n for my 1/8 scale that day! lol
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Old 08-11-2016, 08:45 PM   #14
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I'm near the Saginaw area of Michigan. I've never been to Larry's. Just back into the hobby last summer after 7-ish years away b/c I had twins. Used to race Pheasant Run, DirtBurners, Factory Tracks, Sandhill/Shortrac, etc.

I see you're in Alberta. I went to Calgary around '05, saw a sweet on-road club in a commercial district there, as well as an awesome off-road track. I was totally jones'n for my 1/8 scale that day! lol
Moved out here about 3 years ago. Never raced at Dirtburners but practiced there a few times. Didn't make it to the other places. Had one of Tony's light breakfasts on my way to the UP (think that's in Saginaw). You know, the place with the plates the size of a coffee table....lol.

I started racing mini onroad last year and yes that place is called CARCAR. It's like 5 mins from my place. Many fast drivers there. The offroad is called RC Gears. There are a few bits on a certain tube site. The newest track is on there showing a nitro truggy race last year but the video is small. But you can get the idea of the track. Calgary is a cool place to live. If I need to get away, I drive 30 mins and I'm in the Rockies.
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