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Old 12-20-2005, 06:54 PM
  #31  
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On a different note. Wouln't it be cool if F1 came to Laguna Seca? I think thas a great track, seen F1 cars going down the Corcscrew would be great IMO.

Not gonna happen, but one can dream.
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Old 12-20-2005, 07:15 PM
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Laguna Seca would be nice, the old streets of Phoenix would also be nice imagine the revenue. A guy who works at a local hobby store here said that they raced here (Phoenix) on the streets with the old V12's he said that the noise from those was just deafening. Any track would be nice but I personally think that Indy is way to boring. Its all flat every other track on the calender has various elevation changes and unique turns.
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Old 12-20-2005, 07:31 PM
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I vote for F1 @ MIDOHIO
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Old 12-20-2005, 09:15 PM
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The U.S.G.P West (back when they also ran at the Glen as the East event) made it's last laps through the streets of Long Beach in '80. '81 - '82 saw the greatest traveling circus in the world run in the parking lot of Casears Palace in Las VegaS WITH Can-Am as the support race. They had the kitty litter sand traps on the outside of the turns. Great idea until the desert winds came up and visibilty went to about 10' -20' when the Can-Am cars were on track. Made it a little tough to handle the blue flag with no visibility. I felt like Lawerence of Arabia.

'83 and '84 saw the Phoenix and Dallas races. Both were diasters due to horribly bumpy street courses, track coming up (in Dallas), and horrible heat due to the schedule dates.

The return of F1 to the States at Indy was a great thing, until this years debacle. There are lots of great venues to run F1 here that would rival many European courses. Laguna Seca, Mid Ohio, Road Atlanta and Watkins Glen (again) to name just a few. However, the $$$ and politics will probably never let that happen.

Last edited by Kevin CBR; 12-21-2005 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 12-20-2005, 10:48 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by SRAD
No matter what your personal opinion of MS....you cannot ignore his stats....and if that is not enough for him to be in most peoples top 5 list, then it must be really personal.

I do, I can, I did & will continue to do. I don´t like him, and I don´t respect him. For me, he have shown he is faster than Rubens as long as he have all the resourses. That´s about it.
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Old 12-21-2005, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Anders Myrberg
I do, I can, I did & will continue to do. I don´t like him, and I don´t respect him. For me, he have shown he is faster than Rubens as long as he have all the resourses. That´s about it.
Sooooo, you don't remember what Schumi did with a Benneton 10 years ago ? Or how about what he did with Ferrari when he first joined ? Yeah he's the #1 at Ferrari, and gets the advantge there, but do you really think Montoya and Kimi are on an even playing field at McLaren ?

MS deserves the respect for showing his driving ability before he was in a dominate car, AND for what he has done for the sport. The guy lives and breathes motor racing. Just look at the difference on the podiums in the early 2000's. Schumacher could have one his fifth straight race and he was still full of excitement and enthunasism, and Mika Hakkinen could have one the biggest race of his life, and he looked like he was at a funeral. MS doesn't trash talk, and will take blame for his errors. Qualitites many other drivers could learn from him.
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Old 12-21-2005, 02:17 PM
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My list of all time F-1 drivers.

Micheal S.
Ayrton Senna
Alain Prost
Nigel Mansell
Mika H.
Damon Hill
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Old 12-21-2005, 04:38 PM
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The reason I think you cant put schumacher above Senna. Senna's last year a McClaren he didn't test and showed up the weekend of the first race and took a car with a customer ford engine won races and took poles. Schumacher did nothing with this years ferrari. Dont give me the tire excuse, because he had goodyears and still battled Mika.

Originally Posted by Francis M.
My list of all time F-1 drivers.

Micheal S.
Ayrton Senna
Alain Prost
Nigel Mansell
Mika H.
Damon Hill
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Old 12-21-2005, 05:43 PM
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I see......you base Senna above Schumacher because of that one year. What about Shuie's first year at Ferrari....he won more races than Berger and Alesi did combined for 5 years! This years Ferrari combined with the tires were just not up to par. I rate Prost above Senna. Talk about a driver that gets no respect. Schumacher....Prost...Senna in that order for me. I won't let emotions cloud my judgement.
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Old 12-21-2005, 06:28 PM
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I agree that todays drivers are very "poor" compared to the past drivers. They didn't have traction control all the downforce and other little things that are part of the big picture. As for who was the best between then and now one could say that x is better then y for z reason. Every season has been different and one cannot justify an excuse for someone being really good one year and terrible the next.

P.S. 80 days 9 hrs to Bahrain
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Old 12-21-2005, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SRAD
I see......you base Senna above Schumacher because of that one year. What about Shuie's first year at Ferrari....he won more races than Berger and Alesi did combined for 5 years! This years Ferrari combined with the tires were just not up to par. I rate Prost above Senna. Talk about a driver that gets no respect. Schumacher....Prost...Senna in that order for me. I won't let emotions cloud my judgement.
SENNA would have won in a Lotus in the Rain! He was the only one that could drive in those conditions. It's not hard to beat those two record that was a different ferrari.
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Old 12-21-2005, 07:14 PM
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"would have" won in the Lotus!! Also the Ferrari that year was not as different as you think. Again I respect Senna and he was one of the best of his time....but to put him in god like status...not me. For those not to recognize or admit that MS is one of the best is clearly one that is in denial. Plain and simple you don't win as many races as he has without being one of the best. Same with Senna and Prost and Piquet and Mansell and on and on.
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Old 12-21-2005, 09:25 PM
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with your thought process, i guess we will have to rate the drivers from the early 50's as best. Why penalize someone for having traction control and technology of times when everybody else has it. MS has been winning year after year i guess sometimes when your so dominant people just assume he had no competition. I personally think MS is not only a great driver but is one of the smartest drivers as far as giving his input on what the car needs, lets face it if your in F1 your a pretty good driver, but what sets MS apart is he actually gives great feed back to his team on what a car needs.

Last edited by Francis M.; 12-21-2005 at 09:28 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-21-2005, 09:33 PM
  #44  
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As for up and coming drivers. I like F. alonso because he seems to get the most out of his car and seems to know the limits of his car. Kimi he seems to put on a faster lap but for one reason or another has alot of DNF's almost like the early years of Nigel Mansel when he was piloting the williams/honda.
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Old 12-21-2005, 11:04 PM
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Tying to compare the great drivers over many years is like comparing Babe Ruth and his beer belly to Barry Bonds and his steroid laced body. I think the best thing to do is pick the best driver of each era. You just can't compare what Nuvlorai and Fangio did back in their day with what Senna, Prost (hate the guy but can't deny his extreme talent) or Schumi.

Best grudge match I would have liked to see:

Gilles Villenuve vs. Aryton Senna....... in the rain. Agruably the two best drivers in the rain. Rain races are the great equalizers. All the car advantage goes away and it's all about the driver.

As for using Lotus as a "horrible" car example, don't forget 1978. Mario Andretti did not win the championship becuase he was such a great driver. The Lotus was so dominate that his teammate Ronnie Peterson, who died in a racing accident and scored zero points in the last three races, still finished the season in second place. Who remembers when F1 banned ground effects and Colin Champman designed a chassis within the chassis ? The inner chassis would suck down just like the old ground effects boards on the side of the cars. Yeah, that got banned also.
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