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Question about qualifying.

Question about qualifying.

Old 08-07-2014, 11:24 AM
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Default Question about qualifying.

Why isn't qualifying based on the fastest lap? I'm watching the 1/8 IC Euros and I see guys with the fastest lap not in 1st. I know the format is based on how many laps you can get in the time allowed.

My question is why is it done like this in RC? Is it so some random guy doesn't TQ the pros by running a super fast lap? Why not make it the average of your 2 or 3 fastest laps?
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:36 AM
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Many drivers can complete one "fast lap", the current system rewards being able to put together a larger set of consistently fast laps with a strong qualifying position.

I think the last thing we'd want to see is a switch to a "hot lap" qualifying format, where everyone needs to have a "special" qualifying setup (i.e., special motor, tires, batteries, etc.) to log one fast lap. The current system provides a far better indicator of which driver(s) have the strongest cars, and rewards them accordingly.
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by oeoeo327
Many drivers can complete one "fast lap", the current system rewards being able to put together a larger set of consistently fast laps with a strong qualifying position.

I think the last thing we'd want to see is a switch to a "hot lap" qualifying format, where everyone needs to have a "special" qualifying setup (i.e., special motor, tires, batteries, etc.) to log one fast lap. The current system provides a far better indicator of which driver(s) have the strongest cars, and rewards them accordingly.
Wouldn't a 2/3 average take that away?
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:20 PM
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Not really. Electric racers would be the group most adversely affected, since batteries (and motors, for that matter) would be of utmost importance to qualify well. Running a full timed qualifier removes the equipment advantage somewhat. This format might be a little more feasible for nitro racers, but tires would enter the equation regardless of the power source being used. Fresh tires would be a requirement to qualify well; that's not necessarily the case with the current qualifying format.

One advantage this idea has is that it could shorten the race day considerably if other racers agreed to adopt this format. IMO, it would take away from the experience, others might feel differently.
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:35 PM
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Well I'm not saying to shorten the time allowed. It would still be 10min or whatever they want. In those 10 mins, you can try to put up the best laps you can. Whatever strategy guys decide to do will be in that 10min window. Rules can be made to avoid cheating... for example:

10 minute qualifying season
You have to run at least 4 consecutive laps each time you go out for them to count.
The fastest 3 are taken from those 4

If let's say guys want to run less fuel, run 4 laps then come out for refuel. They have to put in another 4 laps before the 10mins are up. If they want to change tires so be it, but they better be fast. If they aren't and they go out and are only able to do 3 laps, they don't count and only the first 4 are counted.

This will also make for better racing. Maybe the fastest guy isn't the most consistent, we'll get more passing.
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:38 PM
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Yea this is how full size professional racing is with qualifying . A diffrent oil used diffrent setup , tires etc . However they have the money to do that !

For R/C racing i think it would be just something that will cause people to spend even more money for a already small groups of racers around the states .
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tc5 man
Yea this is how full size professional racing is with qualifying . A diffrent oil used diffrent setup , tires etc . However they have the money to do that !

For R/C racing i think it would be just something that will cause people to spend even more money for a already small groups of racers around the states .
All you would have to do is not allow tire changing at the club level.
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Old 08-07-2014, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Silo
Well I'm not saying to shorten the time allowed. It would still be 10min or whatever they want. In those 10 mins, you can try to put up the best laps you can. Whatever strategy guys decide to do will be in that 10min window. Rules can be made to avoid cheating... for example:

10 minute qualifying season
You have to run at least 4 consecutive laps each time you go out for them to count.
The fastest 3 are taken from those 4

If let's say guys want to run less fuel, run 4 laps then come out for refuel. They have to put in another 4 laps before the 10mins are up. If they want to change tires so be it, but they better be fast. If they aren't and they go out and are only able to do 3 laps, they don't count and only the first 4 are counted.

This will also make for better racing. Maybe the fastest guy isn't the most consistent, we'll get more passing.
Opening a 10 minute window makes things even worse - multiple runs would lead to the use of multiple sets of tires to qualify, which is way too expensive for the casual racers out there. Who's going to tech the cars coming off the track to make sure that they are complying with the rules? How do you address cars that get wrecked during qualifying? Call it "tough luck" and put good drivers in the lower mains? Same scenario goes for faulty transponders - how will those drivers be seeded for main events? There's also the issue of determining which drivers get to the drivers' stand first, ensuring everyone gets an equal opportunity to qualify, and having enough track staff to oversee all of this frenetic activity and ensure no one's cheating.

The only scenario in which this could possibly work would be with nitro classes, and even then only for the most prestigious races that aren't single day events. It's not an option in any electric racing class, on or off road since you'd need multiple batteries and/or chargers to keep fresh batteries in your car.

Sounds expensive, nerve-wracking, and time consuming, from both a maintenance/tuning and track owners' perspective. I'll pass.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:05 PM
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Great discussion and interesting idea that generates new thoughts or considerations for racing. The current processes used are derived from many years of organized R/C racing and have proven to be the best and most fair methods. Keep sharing the new ideas, especially if they encourage more people to join the R/C hobby.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:16 PM
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We'll there could be a new change in qualifying though it's well duded . But the question is what other ideas could it be with it being fair and not costing more money .
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by oeoeo327
Opening a 10 minute window makes things even worse - multiple runs would lead to the use of multiple sets of tires to qualify, which is way too expensive for the casual racers out there. Who's going to tech the cars coming off the track to make sure that they are complying with the rules? How do you address cars that get wrecked during qualifying? Call it "tough luck" and put good drivers in the lower mains? Same scenario goes for faulty transponders - how will those drivers be seeded for main events? There's also the issue of determining which drivers get to the drivers' stand first, ensuring everyone gets an equal opportunity to qualify, and having enough track staff to oversee all of this frenetic activity and ensure no one's cheating.

The only scenario in which this could possibly work would be with nitro classes, and even then only for the most prestigious races that aren't single day events. It's not an option in any electric racing class, on or off road since you'd need multiple batteries and/or chargers to keep fresh batteries in your car.

Sounds expensive, nerve-wracking, and time consuming, from both a maintenance/tuning and track owners' perspective. I'll pass.
Don't they normally run 10 min? I'ma newbie to rc racing so I don't know. I'm just a all around race fan looking at guy's like Bloomfield being hurt by one flip over.

If tire changing is a problem just don't allow it. Also, whatever time they normally run, keep it that way. All I'm saying is why not make it so guys don't get penalized by not completing the same amount of laps. Qualifying isn't a race and shouldn't be treated as such.

Only thing I can see being a problem is in nitro. Where they can put very little fuel, run 4 laps, come in for fuel and run 4 more. That can be cancelled out by not allowing refueling so guys would have to fill it up.
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Old 08-08-2014, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Silo
Don't they normally run 10 min? I'ma newbie to rc racing so I don't know. I'm just a all around race fan looking at guy's like Bloomfield being hurt by one flip over.

If tire changing is a problem just don't allow it. Also, whatever time they normally run, keep it that way. All I'm saying is why not make it so guys don't get penalized by not completing the same amount of laps. Qualifying isn't a race and shouldn't be treated as such.

Only thing I can see being a problem is in nitro. Where they can put very little fuel, run 4 laps, come in for fuel and run 4 more. That can be cancelled out by not allowing refueling so guys would have to fill it up.
That's the point of having to run an entire race cleanly to qualify well - you have to avoid all of the mistakes that cost you time. Having a number of drivers on the track trying to score their best lap would encourage aggressive/reckless behavior on the track; all of which is tempered by forcing drivers to focus on running their best laps without driving over their heads to do so.

When running in smaller intervals to turn a fast lap, your best laps will normally be turned when the tires are fresh; allowing only one set of tires is a step in the right direction, but wouldn't change the fact that if you didn't get it right in the first few laps, all of your following laps would most likely be slower.

Starting with lighter fuel loads in nitro racing wouldn't offer much of an advantage since we're talking about a few ounces of weight located in the center of the chassis. About the only thing accomplished here is chaos on pit lane as multiple drivers enter and exit the pits constantly for 5-6 minutes (typical length of on-road qualifiers in the US)...
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by oeoeo327
That's the point of having to run an entire race cleanly to qualify well - you have to avoid all of the mistakes that cost you time. Having a number of drivers on the track trying to score their best lap would encourage aggressive/reckless behavior on the track; all of which is tempered by forcing drivers to focus on running their best laps without driving over their heads to do so.

When running in smaller intervals to turn a fast lap, your best laps will normally be turned when the tires are fresh; allowing only one set of tires is a step in the right direction, but wouldn't change the fact that if you didn't get it right in the first few laps, all of your following laps would most likely be slower.

Starting with lighter fuel loads in nitro racing wouldn't offer much of an advantage since we're talking about a few ounces of weight located in the center of the chassis. About the only thing accomplished here is chaos on pit lane as multiple drivers enter and exit the pits constantly for 5-6 minutes (typical length of on-road qualifiers in the US)...
I see how that would be a problem, I don't have an answer for that. You answered my question as to why they do it this way with that one sentence, thank you.
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:48 AM
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some larger races seed their qualifiers based on consecutive fast laps in controlled practice. IIC in Vegas is a good example of this, where the racer's 3 fastest consecutive laps are what determines the starting order for the quals. This helps group racers based on a sample of their speed and consistency.
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Old 08-08-2014, 02:03 PM
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The most effective way of determining speed in qualifying is to run full length runs. Being fast for one lap is no indication of ones ability to win a final or a triple A main.
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