Tamiya Winter Enduro
04-02-2004, 07:15 PM
#62
Originally posted by eeyan
Neil, remember the Toyota Cup... F201's in real wet weather condition!!!
Neil, remember the Toyota Cup... F201's in real wet weather condition!!!
04-03-2004, 10:41 PM
#64
Originally posted by tony q
TEAM TAOB,how did you guys do?did we win?
TEAM TAOB,how did you guys do?did we win?
04-03-2004, 10:48 PM
#65
Originally posted by tony q
TEAM TAOB,how did you guys do?did we win?
TEAM TAOB,how did you guys do?did we win?
We are very very dissappointed with their product... three brand new brushless motor systems($600 investment down the drain!)... all three shutdown consistently (well, at least that's "consistent" *add sarcasm!*)... and two rotors collapsed, thus killing the motors... now, how the other guys got theirs going is a big mystery (don't even ask about gearing... we tried EVERYTHING from 7.1 to a very high 8.4 and in between and the damn(excuse my language) speedos just keeps on shutting down on two of our teams) There's talk that the first batch of brushless motors are more durable than the recent batch released in the market... NOW, we are just waiting for Novak to address this issue(if they will ever that is)... FYI, the guys who weren't shutting down got their brushless motors when they first came out... go figure...
04-03-2004, 11:46 PM
#66
I hear Arthur's team did fairly well, however they didn't use a Novak.
04-05-2004, 09:52 AM
#67
Hey Eeyan.
Did ya stay around to see Team Old Spice's ultimate thermal shutdown? Well, the post-mortem looks like the FET blew up in the ESC. Oh well, I hope the boys in Orange can figure these motors out.,
Did ya stay around to see Team Old Spice's ultimate thermal shutdown? Well, the post-mortem looks like the FET blew up in the ESC. Oh well, I hope the boys in Orange can figure these motors out.,
04-05-2004, 10:10 AM
#68
Originally posted by gtypecanare
Hey Eeyan.
Did ya stay around to see Team Old Spice's ultimate thermal shutdown? Well, the post-mortem looks like the FET blew up in the ESC. Oh well, I hope the boys in Orange can figure these motors out.,
Hey Eeyan.
Did ya stay around to see Team Old Spice's ultimate thermal shutdown? Well, the post-mortem looks like the FET blew up in the ESC. Oh well, I hope the boys in Orange can figure these motors out.,
Anyway, thanks for the info dude...
04-05-2004, 10:53 AM
#69
Originally posted by eeyan
Haha... gtype... my team was so bummed out, we just had to get out of there at the 2 hr mark or we'll end up cuzzing, cursing, doing every watchamacallit from frustration on our BL(maybe they should call it BS!) Setup... ! But... Damnnn... we did miss that ULTIMATE thingy you mentioned! If we were there, we would have clapped and cheered hysterically or should I say, sarcastically... Anyway, thanks for the info dude...
Haha... gtype... my team was so bummed out, we just had to get out of there at the 2 hr mark or we'll end up cuzzing, cursing, doing every watchamacallit from frustration on our BL(maybe they should call it BS!) Setup... ! But... Damnnn... we did miss that ULTIMATE thingy you mentioned! If we were there, we would have clapped and cheered hysterically or should I say, sarcastically...
Anyway, thanks for the info dude...
04-05-2004, 02:50 PM
#71
Big Thanks to Tamiya for holding another great, well run event.
Props to the weather, for not raining.
Props to "Team Dick Fitzwell" for most original name.
Props to the Las Vegas oddmakers, since our brushless never hiccuped or shut down.
And congrats to the winner: Team Novak, who showed us what their prototype brushless system can do.
My entire team had a blast, and we're psyched for the next one.
-Ling
Props to the weather, for not raining.
Props to "Team Dick Fitzwell" for most original name.
Props to the Las Vegas oddmakers, since our brushless never hiccuped or shut down.
And congrats to the winner: Team Novak, who showed us what their prototype brushless system can do.
My entire team had a blast, and we're psyched for the next one.
-Ling
04-05-2004, 03:07 PM
#72
Hi Guys,
Well I'm not to sure what we can say.
In the early systems, the thermal protection does not work as accurately, we have seen more long term reliability problems. Meaning they work okay, you run them way to hot over and over, then eventually they fail. Like Old Spices did. I told them they were WAY overgeared but they left it alone. They crashed, the ESC was super hot and parts moved and shorted.
The newer systems work fine. I ran our enduro car with production stuff the when I was out there. My ESC was only 130F geared 93/26 in a TAO4R. Ran two packs in a row twice.
Some systems were overgeared in the beginning, so you had LOTS of thermal problems, then you super cooled them with Freon, this only makes for reliability problems. You probably created tons of condensation inside the ESC and eventually shorted something. Cooling them for a short time, then heating them right back up, is not solving a problem, it's only pro-longing the eventual failure. 7.6 and even 7.8 is too tall for an enduro. Putting a fan on an ESC that is getting hot is not solving the problem, only pro-longing the failure, the ESC's insides are still way too hot, you need to gear down.
I understand that everyone EVENTUALLY geared way down, even lower than we recommended, but this was after an hour of overgeared running, some VERY bad wrecks, and countless blast with the upside down canned air. The damage had already been done. You can't really expect something to take that. Use it beyond it's recommendation (We were THERE telling people were to gear), blast it with Ice, get it hot again, blast it again, crash the car, blast it some more.
The problem with shafts has been addressed, we've changed the process and the shafts no longer fail. I spoke with a few team about this before the enduro, I'm sorry that not everyone checked with us first, but I didn't have much time in the morning to help people out. I loaned one team a BL system of my own, it was standard production, and to my knowledge, they had no shutdown problems geared 8.0 in an EVO.
I'm sorry to any of the teams that had problems, but most of you were very unwilling to gear down so there wasn't much we could do, if you beat your system into the ground, then super cool it in10 seconds you have to understand that is not correct use.
Our team did not end up running a production motor, we don't get many chances to test in this manner and wanted to run some equipment that needed to be tested. But I did run 40 minutes worth of packs in the same car with a Super Sport System and the ESC never got above 130 with NO fan, the ESC won't shut off until 220. Car setup and driving style has a lot to do with it, but we don't need to get into that.
Myself, and the engineer that was at the track feel that if your systems were setup properly from day one, not treated with your upside down air can, they would have lasted much much longer and probably caused no problems.
If you would like to get them exchanged give me a call, send me an email we can talk about options.
I also want to apologize to the guy who was asking me for help during the race. I was bit caught up in the race, making sure our car was okay and may have been less than polite. Sorry, but we were racing there wasn't much I could do at that point.
Thanks Fred and Tamiya USA for the race, we have a blast everytime. Next enduro, we'll be out there testing more, so hopefully I can be more helpful.
Though, I thought giving you the exact gearing was decent help.
Thanks
Charlie
For anyone interested in what we were running, it was a prototype system, different motor and ESC, not the fastest of what we have up our sleves. There were some problems after about an hour, but engineering seems to thing this is related to the ESC being a prototype not built on our machines. This was geared about 4 teeth lower, the ESC was only 90, the motor was 110-120.
Well I'm not to sure what we can say.
In the early systems, the thermal protection does not work as accurately, we have seen more long term reliability problems. Meaning they work okay, you run them way to hot over and over, then eventually they fail. Like Old Spices did. I told them they were WAY overgeared but they left it alone. They crashed, the ESC was super hot and parts moved and shorted.
The newer systems work fine. I ran our enduro car with production stuff the when I was out there. My ESC was only 130F geared 93/26 in a TAO4R. Ran two packs in a row twice.
Some systems were overgeared in the beginning, so you had LOTS of thermal problems, then you super cooled them with Freon, this only makes for reliability problems. You probably created tons of condensation inside the ESC and eventually shorted something. Cooling them for a short time, then heating them right back up, is not solving a problem, it's only pro-longing the eventual failure. 7.6 and even 7.8 is too tall for an enduro. Putting a fan on an ESC that is getting hot is not solving the problem, only pro-longing the failure, the ESC's insides are still way too hot, you need to gear down.
I understand that everyone EVENTUALLY geared way down, even lower than we recommended, but this was after an hour of overgeared running, some VERY bad wrecks, and countless blast with the upside down canned air. The damage had already been done. You can't really expect something to take that. Use it beyond it's recommendation (We were THERE telling people were to gear), blast it with Ice, get it hot again, blast it again, crash the car, blast it some more.
The problem with shafts has been addressed, we've changed the process and the shafts no longer fail. I spoke with a few team about this before the enduro, I'm sorry that not everyone checked with us first, but I didn't have much time in the morning to help people out. I loaned one team a BL system of my own, it was standard production, and to my knowledge, they had no shutdown problems geared 8.0 in an EVO.
I'm sorry to any of the teams that had problems, but most of you were very unwilling to gear down so there wasn't much we could do, if you beat your system into the ground, then super cool it in10 seconds you have to understand that is not correct use.
Our team did not end up running a production motor, we don't get many chances to test in this manner and wanted to run some equipment that needed to be tested. But I did run 40 minutes worth of packs in the same car with a Super Sport System and the ESC never got above 130 with NO fan, the ESC won't shut off until 220. Car setup and driving style has a lot to do with it, but we don't need to get into that.
Myself, and the engineer that was at the track feel that if your systems were setup properly from day one, not treated with your upside down air can, they would have lasted much much longer and probably caused no problems.
If you would like to get them exchanged give me a call, send me an email we can talk about options.
I also want to apologize to the guy who was asking me for help during the race. I was bit caught up in the race, making sure our car was okay and may have been less than polite. Sorry, but we were racing there wasn't much I could do at that point.
Thanks Fred and Tamiya USA for the race, we have a blast everytime. Next enduro, we'll be out there testing more, so hopefully I can be more helpful.
Though, I thought giving you the exact gearing was decent help.
Thanks
Charlie
For anyone interested in what we were running, it was a prototype system, different motor and ESC, not the fastest of what we have up our sleves. There were some problems after about an hour, but engineering seems to thing this is related to the ESC being a prototype not built on our machines. This was geared about 4 teeth lower, the ESC was only 90, the motor was 110-120.
Last edited by Charlie; 04-05-2004 at 03:12 PM.
04-05-2004, 03:31 PM
#75
Originally posted by Erik R.
All I know for sure about the enduro is that team Roof Riders will be about 20 laps ahead of Team Really Extra Super Fast Racing by the time everything is said and done....
All I know for sure about the enduro is that team Roof Riders will be about 20 laps ahead of Team Really Extra Super Fast Racing by the time everything is said and done....