slash late model set-up help
05-09-2012, 07:50 AM
#1
Tech Apprentice
Thread Starter
slash late model set-up help
I'm new to dirt oval racing and need some help with suspension set-up I have a slash with proline protrac suspension,proline shocks and a castle sct esc and motor I know nothing about oval set-up what shock springs to use where what shock oil how much fuel tubing to put in each shock to limit travel and any thing that I may forgot to ask I just ordered an atomic sclm body from cm bodies thanks max
05-09-2012, 09:13 AM
#2
I'm new to dirt oval racing and need some help with suspension set-up I have a slash with proline protrac suspension,proline shocks and a castle sct esc and motor I know nothing about oval set-up what shock springs to use where what shock oil how much fuel tubing to put in each shock to limit travel and any thing that I may forgot to ask I just ordered an atomic sclm body from cm bodies thanks max
http://www.rctech.net/forum/oval-lar...nversions.html
Check out the last page for the best tuning guide you will find posted by GP40X.
05-09-2012, 09:32 AM
#3
I'm new to dirt oval racing and need some help with suspension set-up I have a slash with proline protrac suspension,proline shocks and a castle sct esc and motor I know nothing about oval set-up what shock springs to use where what shock oil how much fuel tubing to put in each shock to limit travel and any thing that I may forgot to ask I just ordered an atomic sclm body from cm bodies thanks max
The Dirt Oval Handling Guide
Directions: Do one of the following change to your vehicle at a time and drive test.
Keep good notes (It's hard to do at the track but try to keep a log it really helps).
Also, don't forget to have fun....
Phase 1 (going into the turn)
If the vehicle is loose at turn entry then..(needs more traction)
(1) Right front spring is to soft use a harder spring
(2) You need to add more crossweight - by adding a round to the right front spring (add weight to the left rear tire).
(3) Change left front spring to a softer spring.
(4) Lower chassis - keeping it level with the rear.
(5) Reduce front right caster (no less than 2 degree min.)
OR If the vehicle is pushing into the turn entry then..
(1) Right front spring needs to be softer.
(2) You need to reduce the crossweight - by taking out a round to the right front spring (add weight to the front left tire)
(3) Increasing right rear spring tension by one round
(4) Increase front right caster (6 degrees max.)
Phase 2 (the middle of the turn)
If the vehicle is loose in the middle of the turn then...(needs more traction)
(1) Increasing the crossweight by adding a round to the front right and left rear evenly (add weight to the left rear tire)
(2) Use a harder spring to the left rear
(3) The right rear spring needs to be decrease a round (less spring tension)
OR If the vehicle pushes in the middle of the turn then...(needs more steering)
(1) Decrease crossweight by taking out a round to the front right and left rear evenly
(2) Use a softer spring to the right rear
(3) The right rear spring needs to be increase a round (more spring tension)
Phase 3 (coming out of the turn..)
If the vehicle is loose coming out of the turn then..(needs more traction)
(1) Stagger needs to be decreased on the right side
(2) Increase crossweight by adding a round of spring tension to the right front and left rear evenly (add weight to the left rear tire)
(3) Check if right rear spring tension is to much - if it is then take a round out of spring.
(4) Decrease rear springs evenly to the right and left rear.
(5) Use a soft tire in the rear
OR If the vehicle pushes coming out of the turn then...(needs more steering)
(1) Stagger needs to be increased on the right side if present.
(2) Decrease crossweight by reducing a round of spring tension to the right front and left rear evenly (add weight to the front left tire)
(3) Increase right rear spring tension a round.
(4) Increase rear springs evenly to the right and left rear.
Here is some additional information from Arnie Fie with Custom Works from the Dirt Oval.com forum. They were talking about an Intimidator SE on foam tires but a lot of the weight transfer and crossweight information can be applied to any dirt oval vehicle. Hope it helps.
Hi All!
Just wanted to share this email with from a new racer that asked for some help at a race earlier in the year. He wrote back to say this is the check list he came up with after receiving some advice. Hope this helps!
Arnie, I would like to learn more about setup tuning. Is there a book on the market or do you have a mental checklist that you would be willing to share.
By reading your email, you have the checklist categorized really well.
I race several SE's and two of the GBX2's. I find it difficult to get the SE's dialed in perfectly. The GBX2's are a little easier to make/keep competetive. When they are working well, there is nothing that compares.
I think I have the basic setup that you showed to me down to a science.
Step 1: Make sure all the links and arms are free with no binding
Step 2: Check suspension for proper up/down travel
Step 3: level dog bones
Step 4: level rest of chassis to match rear
Step 5: Camber RF 0 LF 1 out RR 1 in LR 1 out
Step 6: Put all the spacers on the bottom of front kingpins
Step 7: equalize front wheel weights on scales after loading the suspension
I'd say the list is great, minus line Step 6: It could just simple be the KISS Method line...."make camber links parallel and even lengths" OR "make the setup of the car simple".
Tires: Prep tires with traction compound and open up the grooves enough to get bite
Yes, truing tires with alteast 5 grooves across the front and rear (usu 7 on the rear for me) using the dangerous little red disk from Dremel will never hold you back. Also cross-grooving at every lug on CW wheels and then another groove in between each groove is also good measure. When the tire wears on a race day, you can simply re-groove the tires without truing the tire to size during the race day. This will save you from not having the tire "scuffed in" and making the car rather tight or loose until the tire opens up. When the tires are de-staggered by .050" then it is certainly time to match the diameters back up unless ofcourse you are happy and fast.
Please let me know if there is something I missed. There is nothing more frustrating than a car handling poorly and not knowing how to make it right. I see many drivers just cranking on springs to make the cars drivable but few have success. I find the preload adjustments to be for ride height mainly and get into trouble when I put alot of turns in/out of my cars. Seems to be too extreme.
The collars are to be turned to jack weight AND change ride height. BOTH the ride height and the weight placement effect the ENTIRE attitude of the car. Most racers experience frustration when...
1) The shock length is already maxed out when the car is sitting. This is to say there is ZERO up travel when you pick up on that corner of the car and that corner of the chassis' shock DOES NOT EXTEND. If this were the RF shock for example, turning down on the shock collar will not jack any wedge in the car, it will not make it drive tighter, the spring only gets more PRE-LOADED, and confusion in-sues.
2) When settings are at extremes, then other settings on the car are as well to compensate. Typically when you are out of room to adjust is should be a flag 90% of the time that something else on the car is TOO DOMINANT or simply not the right choice. Good example here is someone running a sprint car with the rear ride height of the car much higher than the front. This is then offset for driving comfort by moving the wing all the way back, running more toe-in than most other racers. super stiff RF spring etc... This racer basically is at the end of the rope doing all they can to keep rear traction when its the extreme chassis rake making them run all the other options to extremes to compensate.
3) Turning only one collar. We all love the RF spring collar, its easy and simple to understand and generally is the most effective. However if it is turned down or up too much the ride height is also effected. For the RF the weight jacking with the shock collar and ride height work together always to make the car tighter or looser. (IE: more wedge and higher front ride height BOTH make car more rear dominant)
On the other side with the LR collar, if you turn it down you do put more wedge in the car BUT also raise the rear ride height too. This can make the car turn in better, but drive off tighter, only until the point to where the rear ride height is in good match with the rest of the car. Continue to turn the LR collar down with the intention of wanting more rear bite is only going to raise the rear AND tilt the chassis toward the RF and this will make the car unstable very quickly and frustration occurs.
Generally it is good to do "one in / one out" when turning shock collars to keep ride heights even BUT still change weight placements.
-To tighten the front end on entry: Turn down on the RF one turn, Turn out on the LF one turn = Ride height stays equal.
-To tighten the car on-power off the corner: Turn down on the LR one turn, Turn out on the RR one turn = Ride height stays equal.
If you find your self putting in a ton of wedge (or taking it away) after starting with the ride heights and front weights even then this is a good time to consider a spring change. Change the spring and then start with ride height and front weight equal again. If then you try different springs without an desired effect, then it may be a good time to consider another chassis option or two then lastly a different tire if the rest of the car is within normal settings (nothing set at the extreme).
Its only rule of thumb to start ride height and front weight equal! If the track is flat, it is certainly fine to have more LF weight (preferred) or if the track is banked a great deal more RF weight.
Just wanted to share this email with from a new racer that asked for some help at a race earlier in the year. He wrote back to say this is the check list he came up with after receiving some advice. Hope this helps!
Arnie, I would like to learn more about setup tuning. Is there a book on the market or do you have a mental checklist that you would be willing to share.
By reading your email, you have the checklist categorized really well.
I race several SE's and two of the GBX2's. I find it difficult to get the SE's dialed in perfectly. The GBX2's are a little easier to make/keep competetive. When they are working well, there is nothing that compares.
I think I have the basic setup that you showed to me down to a science.
Step 1: Make sure all the links and arms are free with no binding
Step 2: Check suspension for proper up/down travel
Step 3: level dog bones
Step 4: level rest of chassis to match rear
Step 5: Camber RF 0 LF 1 out RR 1 in LR 1 out
Step 6: Put all the spacers on the bottom of front kingpins
Step 7: equalize front wheel weights on scales after loading the suspension
I'd say the list is great, minus line Step 6: It could just simple be the KISS Method line...."make camber links parallel and even lengths" OR "make the setup of the car simple".
Tires: Prep tires with traction compound and open up the grooves enough to get bite
Yes, truing tires with alteast 5 grooves across the front and rear (usu 7 on the rear for me) using the dangerous little red disk from Dremel will never hold you back. Also cross-grooving at every lug on CW wheels and then another groove in between each groove is also good measure. When the tire wears on a race day, you can simply re-groove the tires without truing the tire to size during the race day. This will save you from not having the tire "scuffed in" and making the car rather tight or loose until the tire opens up. When the tires are de-staggered by .050" then it is certainly time to match the diameters back up unless ofcourse you are happy and fast.
Please let me know if there is something I missed. There is nothing more frustrating than a car handling poorly and not knowing how to make it right. I see many drivers just cranking on springs to make the cars drivable but few have success. I find the preload adjustments to be for ride height mainly and get into trouble when I put alot of turns in/out of my cars. Seems to be too extreme.
The collars are to be turned to jack weight AND change ride height. BOTH the ride height and the weight placement effect the ENTIRE attitude of the car. Most racers experience frustration when...
1) The shock length is already maxed out when the car is sitting. This is to say there is ZERO up travel when you pick up on that corner of the car and that corner of the chassis' shock DOES NOT EXTEND. If this were the RF shock for example, turning down on the shock collar will not jack any wedge in the car, it will not make it drive tighter, the spring only gets more PRE-LOADED, and confusion in-sues.
2) When settings are at extremes, then other settings on the car are as well to compensate. Typically when you are out of room to adjust is should be a flag 90% of the time that something else on the car is TOO DOMINANT or simply not the right choice. Good example here is someone running a sprint car with the rear ride height of the car much higher than the front. This is then offset for driving comfort by moving the wing all the way back, running more toe-in than most other racers. super stiff RF spring etc... This racer basically is at the end of the rope doing all they can to keep rear traction when its the extreme chassis rake making them run all the other options to extremes to compensate.
3) Turning only one collar. We all love the RF spring collar, its easy and simple to understand and generally is the most effective. However if it is turned down or up too much the ride height is also effected. For the RF the weight jacking with the shock collar and ride height work together always to make the car tighter or looser. (IE: more wedge and higher front ride height BOTH make car more rear dominant)
On the other side with the LR collar, if you turn it down you do put more wedge in the car BUT also raise the rear ride height too. This can make the car turn in better, but drive off tighter, only until the point to where the rear ride height is in good match with the rest of the car. Continue to turn the LR collar down with the intention of wanting more rear bite is only going to raise the rear AND tilt the chassis toward the RF and this will make the car unstable very quickly and frustration occurs.
Generally it is good to do "one in / one out" when turning shock collars to keep ride heights even BUT still change weight placements.
-To tighten the front end on entry: Turn down on the RF one turn, Turn out on the LF one turn = Ride height stays equal.
-To tighten the car on-power off the corner: Turn down on the LR one turn, Turn out on the RR one turn = Ride height stays equal.
If you find your self putting in a ton of wedge (or taking it away) after starting with the ride heights and front weights even then this is a good time to consider a spring change. Change the spring and then start with ride height and front weight equal again. If then you try different springs without an desired effect, then it may be a good time to consider another chassis option or two then lastly a different tire if the rest of the car is within normal settings (nothing set at the extreme).
Its only rule of thumb to start ride height and front weight equal! If the track is flat, it is certainly fine to have more LF weight (preferred) or if the track is banked a great deal more RF weight.
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