R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Oval, Larger Scales and More

Like Tree1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-16-2013, 01:57 AM   #1111
M7H
Tech Elite
 
M7H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.a.v.e View Post
I would love to see these take off but think one of the key things we need are some kind of standardized quick change battery that can be changed out during a pit stop.
Have you ever thought more in detail about this?
Ever thought about the amount of electric power required in the paddock to have all Lipo's charged?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal Brun View Post
Li-S has the potential for 25 - 30min.
So, lets do some calculating.
Lets asume we have 30 8th scale electric cars running.
In the morning everybody will charge there lipo's, on 1C max.
this is 4A @ 25V = 100W x 30 driver, means 3kW power consumption.

If you keep the 5 minute heats/finals, and no quick change systems, I see no problems here. (or even 6/7/8 minutes if it's possible)
But if you want longer (semi) finals, everybody in these finals needs to have his Lipo's fully charged.....

Also if the future Li-S battery is a possibility, the power consumpion might be 4x more!.....
I know 100% sure, that a lot of tracks will have problems providing 12kW of power in the paddock!
And what if, you run a combined race, also with 8th scale nitro?, and driver heat up there engines with heatguns?.....

__________________
Serpent
M7H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 11:26 AM   #1112
Tech Initiate
 
Pascal Brun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 32
Send a message via Skype™ to Pascal Brun
Default

you need a nuclear power plant for each onroad track ;-)
__________________
www.ttb-rc.com
www.tectrade.ch
info@tectrade.ch
Pascal Brun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 12:45 PM   #1113
Tech Champion
 
Pulse_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 5,081
Default

what are the differences between a 1/10 235mm pan car and a 1/8 in terms of handling?
__________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1CAwFfuz1K3chBSVpIlSew
Pulse_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2013, 03:34 AM   #1114
M7H
Tech Elite
 
M7H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal Brun View Post
you need a nuclear power plant for each onroad track ;-)
Maybe even 2.
__________________
Serpent
M7H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2013, 06:50 AM   #1115
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,082
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H View Post
Have you ever thought more in detail about this?
Ever thought about the amount of electric power required in the paddock to have all Lipo's charged?

So, lets do some calculating.
Lets asume we have 30 8th scale electric cars running.
In the morning everybody will charge there lipo's, on 1C max.
this is 4A @ 25V = 100W x 30 driver, means 3kW power consumption.

If you keep the 5 minute heats/finals, and no quick change systems, I see no problems here. (or even 6/7/8 minutes if it's possible)
But if you want longer (semi) finals, everybody in these finals needs to have his Lipo's fully charged.....

Also if the future Li-S battery is a possibility, the power consumpion might be 4x more!.....
I know 100% sure, that a lot of tracks will have problems providing 12kW of power in the paddock!
And what if, you run a combined race, also with 8th scale nitro?, and driver heat up there engines with heatguns?.....

I was just thinking the IIC 1/12 and 1/10 scale championships just finished up in Las Vegas and ran the calculations for it. Conservatively assuming everyone was running 5000mah battery packs charged at 1C. I'm sure there were drivers running 7000mah and charging at more than 1C, but my calculations are conservative.

1/10 = 8.4V x 5A = 42W
1/12 = 4.2V x 5A = 21W

271 1/10 drivers x 42W = 11.4kW
102 1/12 drivers x 21W = 2.1kW

Combined = 13.5kW

The event was held at a large hotel so they most likely had the ability to provide that much energy.
__________________
Speedpassion : Speedpower : East Coast Bodies
thunderbt3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2013, 11:14 AM   #1116
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 86
Default

I have a Motonica RS3 Electron and a Motonica RS2 that has had the electric conversion kit added.

Both cars I run with a Turnigy Trackstar 2650 KV motor combined with a Hobbywing Xerun 150A speed controller. The punch and the timing on the ESC have been set to their lowest settings at the moment.

The RS3 Electrons battery posts are not too tall so that one is currently being run on two Turnigy nanotech 6000 mAh 50-100c 7.4 V batteries. The RS2 conversion is being run on two Zippy 5000 mAh 20c 11.1v batteries.

The four cell car is a joy to drive and I look forward at some point to obtaining larger battery posts so that I can also use 11.1v batteries in it. The six cell car however is a beast and its speed and acceleration is phenomenal.

For each of the cars with their current set ups I am getting approximately 12 minute run times.
James73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2013, 01:27 PM   #1117
Tech Regular
 
D.a.v.e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: South East, Michigan
Posts: 466
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H View Post
Have you ever thought more in detail about this?
Ever thought about the amount of electric power required in the paddock to have all Lipo's charged?

So, lets do some calculating.
Lets asume we have 30 8th scale electric cars running.
In the morning everybody will charge there lipo's, on 1C max.
this is 4A @ 25V = 100W x 30 driver, means 3kW power consumption.

If you keep the 5 minute heats/finals, and no quick change systems, I see no problems here. (or even 6/7/8 minutes if it's possible)
But if you want longer (semi) finals, everybody in these finals needs to have his Lipo's fully charged.....

Also if the future Li-S battery is a possibility, the power consumpion might be 4x more!.....
I know 100% sure, that a lot of tracks will have problems providing 12kW of power in the paddock!
And what if, you run a combined race, also with 8th scale nitro?, and driver heat up there engines with heatguns?.....

I have only been to 3 or 4 1/8 on road tracks over the years but only one actually supplied power. For the most part folks are expected to bring a generator here in the US or charge off their car batteries.

This summer I ran a GT8 on 6 cell. We ran 3 7min qualifiers & a 7 min main every week and would go longer if we could find packs big enough to support it and still fit in the cars I'm sure .

I have a 40amp power supply tied to a 2500 wat gen and charged my 2 5000 3 cell packs at 10amps on each side of the charger in 35 min or so. So yes charging might be more expensive then a 2c touring car (bigger power supplies, gen's, etc) but but I doubt that would be the issue holding the class back. As one quick change pack would be used for qualifiers then you could use the extra packs that were charged at home before the race or during the qualifiers. I also suspect this would lead to more realistic racing as folks would end up with a qualifying car set up for pure speed for 5-7min and another setup for running a longer race that would carry more weight or run a bit slower to manage the heat.

I suspect running electric might even end up cheaper then nitro over the season? Unfortunately my experience is that nitro guys love nitro, messing with 2 speeds and everything else associated with it and have no urge to run electric outdoors. I doubt there will be much of a conversion rate and we will have to create a class of ex-nitro guys or bring new electric guys up to this level.

One interesting thing I saw this year was that our fast electric guys were running neck in neck with the times of some of the worlds best gas GT guys on an unprepared track. If the electrics were allowed to run on a prepped track with them I bet they would be faster! Would love to see what these pro guys could do with the electric versions of their gas cars?

Last edited by D.a.v.e; 10-18-2013 at 01:54 PM.
D.a.v.e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2013, 09:24 AM   #1118
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 86
Default

www[DOT]rctech.net/forum/members/james73-albums-my-cars.html

A few pictures of the RS3 electron in my album.
James73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 07:34 AM   #1119
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 86
Default

Has anyone a 'TenShock 1/8 Scale 2850kv motor' and if so how do you rate it?

Thanks in advance.
James73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 10:12 AM   #1120
Tech Initiate
 
Pascal Brun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 32
Send a message via Skype™ to Pascal Brun
Default

Hi James,
if you want this motor for 1/8 onroad...it will not be the best choice:
- 2850kv is to much if you want to drive with 6s (this motor is designed for 4s)
- if you want to drive with 4s you will have a problem with the high current (as example...if the motor deliver 3.5kw...you will have around 250ampere...max. for this motor is around 190ampere)...and there is another problem...if you want topspeed above 110Km/h you need more than 3kw.
- this motor is made for lower speed level but high torque (this is a 6pole motor!)
- have you seen the small bearings and motor shaft...this is not made for long durability
- they have a lenght of 69mm incl. sensor ...this means you will loss space for a long rotor...thats why they use a 6 pole rotor (to compensate the loss with a short rotor) but with 6 pol you will have less commutation efficiency.

for offroad this motor can be a good choice...but if you use this motor for onroad....not the best choice...why the nitro onroad driver dont use nitro offroad motors?
__________________
www.ttb-rc.com
www.tectrade.ch
info@tectrade.ch
Pascal Brun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 11:21 AM   #1121
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 86
Default

Thank you for your reply Pascal. What particular make and size motor do you think will give better speeds than my Turnigy Trackstar 2650KV 6 pole motor?

I am more than happy at the moment with the speeds that I am attaining with my two cars on their four and six cell set ups but in time once if I acquire the skills to push above their current speeds I am sure that I will want to make that leap to the more powerful and faster motor.

Have added a few photos to my album of my six cell electric car.
James73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 03:35 AM   #1122
M7H
Tech Elite
 
M7H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James73 View Post
Thank you for your reply Pascal. What particular make and size motor do you think will give better speeds than my Turnigy Trackstar 2650KV 6 pole motor?

I am more than happy at the moment with the speeds that I am attaining with my two cars on their four and six cell set ups but in time once if I acquire the skills to push above their current speeds I am sure that I will want to make that leap to the more powerful and faster motor.

Have added a few photos to my album of my six cell electric car.
I don't think the speed of your setup will be the main difference between your and Pascal's or my set-up, but the handling will be a huge difference.

The mid battery set-up we are using, gives way better car handling, and therefor lower lap times.

Every car I have seen with the Lipo's on the side of the car, has to much chassisroll, and slides around the track.

Look at the handling of my car, and the posted links of video's of pascal's equipment, and you will see what I mean....
__________________
Serpent
M7H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 05:07 AM   #1123
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,527
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbt3 View Post
I was just thinking the IIC 1/12 and 1/10 scale championships just finished up in Las Vegas and ran the calculations for it. Conservatively assuming everyone was running 5000mah battery packs charged at 1C. I'm sure there were drivers running 7000mah and charging at more than 1C, but my calculations are conservative.

1/10 = 8.4V x 5A = 42W
1/12 = 4.2V x 5A = 21W

271 1/10 drivers x 42W = 11.4kW
102 1/12 drivers x 21W = 2.1kW

Combined = 13.5kW

The event was held at a large hotel so they most likely had the ability to provide that much energy.
Not all those batteries are being charged at the same time, and the rate is reduced as the charge continues.

13.5 kW is like 112 A @ 120v if my poor math skills are correct. That is well within what a typical breaker panel in a hotel ballroom should be able to handle.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 08:43 AM   #1124
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 86
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H View Post
I don't think the speed of your setup will be the main difference between your and Pascal's or my set-up, but the handling will be a huge difference.

The mid battery set-up we are using, gives way better car handling, and therefor lower lap times.

Every car I have seen with the Lipo's on the side of the car, has to much chassisroll, and slides around the track.

Look at the handling of my car, and the posted links of video's of pascal's equipment, and you will see what I mean....
I would definitely agree with you with regards to the handling of the RS2 conversion whereby the batteries are suspended on the side mounts as it feels as though it give it a pendulum effect up some corners which effects the handling. The RS3, the dedicated conversion whereby the batteries are mounted upon side extensions to the chassis is much more planted and for me the handling is a dream and it drives better than the 1/8 RS2 nitro I owned for a short period of time. I have yet to try a mid battery set up so no doubt would find that even better!

Thanks for the advice.

James
__________________
Serpent 977
James73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2013, 04:07 PM   #1125
Tech Initiate
 
Pascal Brun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 32
Send a message via Skype™ to Pascal Brun
Default

new track record at the German Indoor Masters "AMT Bodensee Cup"
best time over all days 13.7...Maximilian Vogel
1/8 Shepherd Velox E8 best time 13.0...Dominic Greiner

unfortunately we had not the time to find a perfect setup because Dominic has only 1 Lipo on Saturday (5 min.)..but he made allready 13.0...and one Lipo at Sunday (also 13.0) with more time for setup 12.8 or 12.7 could be possible!

on a high grip track the electro 1/8 car could be 1second faster than nitro!

It seams that we will have a new race category (1/8 electro onroad) for next season in Germany....
__________________
www.ttb-rc.com
www.tectrade.ch
info@tectrade.ch
Pascal Brun is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTT Nitro onroad 4 electric onroad rswartz R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 0 02-16-2008 05:22 AM
WTT: 1/10th scale electric offroad for onroad... M2_Driver R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 7 10-22-2007 06:48 AM
Electric heli and 1/5 scale onroad F/S... Nitrobuzzard R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 3 08-18-2007 07:41 PM
1/8 electric onroad?? Saber186 Electric On-Road 2 04-22-2006 10:25 AM
I need electric Onroad xxxssportracer R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 5 05-20-2003 04:00 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 08:04 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net