1/10 scale dirt oval setup, help?!

[mattnin]

Our track just went oval for four weeks, and I need some setup advice. I went to dirtoval.com and couldn't find anything for a 1/10 scale XXX-T MF2. But I am just looking for general setup advice for any scale, any car.

Our track is clay, loose dusty oval. The oval runs counter clockwise. I am running king pins and taper pins in the rear, and 8 ribbed front tires.

I read it was best to stiffen up the left front and right rear. Then some friends at the track said to stiffen up the right front and left rear. So which is it? Then I read to go to around 50wt oil. I am using 30wt right now with a pretty dialed in offroad track setup. Also, my friend is using negative camber for the right tires and positive camber for the left tires.

So anyone know what I gotta do? It felt like I was getting a bit too much steering on bumps. So do I gotta follow the old rule and dampen the front end a bit to filter the steering and bumps? I am new to oval and I only have three hours to dial in my truck on Saturday before the races begin.

[richardsonracin]

A good starting point in oval is always soft rear and semi stiff front. If you are running a buggy chassis try silver springs in the rear and gold in the front. 30 to 40 weight oil all around is also a good starting point. With a 2wd car your main goal is to be able to get on the throttle coming out of the corners without your rearend trying to swap places with your front end. Just remeber, the more rear traction you set your car up with, the less front traction you will have and vice versa. Set your shock collars so your rear cvd's are horizontal, and have the front end slightly higher than the rear. It's much easier to drive a 2wd car that's tight instead of loose. IMO it's easier to start your car having a little push and then get more front traction to add steering if needed. Another great way to balance a oval set up is to use a very stiff right front spring. Remember, pushing down on you right front shock collar will add push. Pushing down on your left front will give your right front more bite, therefore adding steering. It's opposite on the rear. Down on the left collar for push and right for loose. Personally i like to raise and lower my car equally. Not front the same as rear, but both front collars the same as well as both rear collars the same. Look at your chassis as it sets on a flat surface. The higher the front to the rear the less front end tracion causing a push, which wil probably work on a oval buggy. If it's spinning out try lowering the right front collar and addding a stiffer spring to the right front only. You can also run a heavier weight oil in the front to add stability and keep a lighter weight in the rear, like i said, with 2wd it's all about the rear traction, you will probably fight it more trying to spin out than trying to make it turn.

What type of bodies and tires will you be running? Hope this helps!

[richardsonracin]

I just realized you're running a truck.

The same principles still apply, however you will have much more traction and shouldn't be fighting the LOOSINESS as bad!

Just go the other way for more front bite. And if the track will allow, put a side dam down the left side of the truck. And your friends are right about the camber. You want the tires to lean into the turn so when the weight shifts you sill have good surface contact.

[mattnin]

This is exactly the information I wanted to hear. Thanks for explaining it so well.

Does your shock oil and spring recommendation still stand for offroad truck? Or should I try stiffer springs and heavier oil?

The track is fairly smooth, slightly rutted. I practiced yesterday running 30 wt oil and yellow losi springs and I had a bit too much steering I think, having the truck spin on me easily. Also if I hit a bump, I would get alot of steering there and I had to be a little quick to correct it. I'd like a little more push actually if not just to filter the bump steer.

Also, do you have any special settings on steering rate or exponential? I am thinking of turning that down too just to lose some steering. I know one thing, I need to drop a bit of drag brake because as soon as I let off the throttle before and during the turn, I'd slide out quite a bit, I had to hang on the throttle. I am running 40% so I am going to turn it down to to between 10-30%

[mattnin]

Originally Posted by richardsonracin

Remember, pushing down on you right front shock collar will add push. Pushing down on your left front will give your right front more bite, therefore adding steering. It's opposite on the rear. Down on the left collar for push and right for loose.

By the way, I just wanted to say that this quote is gold. I'll probably print this out or rewrite it and take it with me and follow this at the track.

Also, we are just running regular truck bodies because we are only running oval for four weeks before the next big race and they tear up the track. Some guys are running late model and other cars for this but I am not going to buy a new chassis just for four weeks, so I have to make the XXX-T MF2 work for now. I am running pink king pin tires in the rear, and 2 year old 8 rib front tires in the front. I haven't had to change those tires out yet!

[richardsonracin]

The first thing you need to do is take ALL of your drag break out. As a matter of fact, with a 2wd on loose dirt a liitle forward roll never hurts. If you have drag you will upset the truck when you enter the corner, considering your probably letting all the way off. If you want to race with drag you have to be precise and patient with your throttle finger. When you enter the turn you need to let off slowly, and usually not all the way off. It's easier to just take out the break or add roll. A truck should be easy enough to set up that you don't need the extra break.

[richardsonracin]

You hit on something else i left out, turn down your steering for sure. I've found if i set a car up with 80% steering it gives me more adjustability from the drivers stand to make adjustments considering how the track is changing. If you set a car up with all of it's steering potential and you need more steering during a race your stuck with a push. With 80% and a good set up you always have room to gain or lose steering. These are just my theories. I've never ran anything but oval, so i'm sure there are some touring or offroad guys out there that might disagree. Oval is really simple, just get back to basics. The funnest part is the competitive nature of oval, it usually makes for closer racing.

Softer springs in the rear and stiffer in the front is your best starting poit. If you need more steering you can soften the front or stiffen the rear. Being it's a 2wd i would recommend a softer front. Try keeping the rear soft and low for more bite and less loopty loops! Make most of your adjustments to the front. And don't forget the stiff right front spring for more stability. I think it helps on throttle exiting the corner.

[mattnin]

Originally Posted by richardsonracin

The funnest part is the competitive nature of oval, it usually makes for closer racing.

You aren't kidding. I haven't been excited about a new track layout in a long time. For most tracks here, I'd use nearly the same setup, maybe change something very minor like camber link length or a spring rate. I have been using the same oil weight for a year.

Anyway, I just wanted to add that I am running a brushless motor which has no resistance at all and it just rolls, that is why I have added drag brake. If I totally disengage any drag brake, will I have to use brake then? If so, I'd rather set drag brake at least to get me to the 2nd half of the apex so I can get back on the throttle, no manual braking required. This way I can just enter the turn, let off the throttle, let the truck slow and get me through most of the turn, then back on the throttle when I know I can come out of the bank.

Is that the proper way to run it though? Should I run it 'nascar-ish' easing throttle at the end of the turn, or should I start my slide and be on the throttle the whole time like the outlaws?

I sure hope I can figure all this out in 3 hours on Saturday, then I only have a precious 30 minutes between heats to further tune my car for the main. I am going to set up everything tonight though based on what you told me, and work from there.

I can't tell ya how much you are helping me already!

Also, I am going to do what you say and turn down my steering a bit. I am gonna keep that as a secret too and not tell anyone I am doing that hehe :P

[richardsonracin]

I love driving sideways, it's the coolest way around the track, however it's not usually the fastest. Don't try to run intp the turns hard and pitch the truck sideways, try to keep it straight thru the turn, almost like your on asphalt. I run the 4.5 Novak brushless in my CW sprint and a 3.5 in my TC4 latemodel. With the 4wd touring car i usually dial in a little drag break to slow down all of the momentum, but with a 2wd on dirt and can make it get loose. I would start with it at neutral. A lot of how your car handles in the turns is your driving style. Try a few laps letting all of the way off before you even begin to turn the wheel, then try a few laps not letting off the throttle until you are already turning the wheels and notice the difference. When turning after letting off the weight has transferred forward giving you more forward bite which eqauls more steering. Sadly, with a 4wd touring car you can hammer down and sprint car it thru the turn, but you're probably better off keeping it smoothe.

[mattnin]

Originally Posted by richardsonracin

Try a few laps letting all of the way off before you even begin to turn the wheel, then try a few laps not letting off the throttle until you are already turning the wheels and notice the difference. When turning after letting off the weight has transferred forward giving you more forward bite which eqauls more steering.

WOW, spoken like a champ.

Ok, I think I got it now, and yes I am printing this stuff out and taking it with me. Thanks again for all this info! Now I just can't wait till Saturday gets here!

[loopedout]

you can also trim your rear shock tower down or get a diff one and run front shocks on the rear to save weight and lower the COG, if youre on a really high bite track make sure you have a servo with enough torque as well to hold the wheels through the turn.

[richardsonracin]

Loop has a good idea, but if you don't want to change your shock tower and shocks you can always set your rear shocks with the bottom end in the outside hole and the top in the inside hole(lean in). It will lower your car and also soften the rear. The straighter they stand up the stiffer. Let us know how you do. And remember, don't let all of this stuff get in your head, it's like golf, keep the technique and set up tips on the driving range, when your on the course be a feel player. In other words, just drive it man!

[mattnin]

Well, by luck I ended up getting to go to yesterdays race.

So what I did was setup the 1/10 scale MF2 with 40WT in the front, 35WT in the rear, I also added a little over a 12mm of fuel tubing in each shock to limit them. The truck ended up looking really low! I adjusted the camber -2 on the right side, and +2 on the left. I started with orange losi springs front which is roughly equal to gold associated, and pink rear springs which is pretty much equal to silver associated. I finished the setup literally 5 minutes before the heat so I didn't get a chance to try it out.

Heat 1 started, I turned a few warmup laps and noticed immediately. The car felt much more planted. We have what seems like widely spaced washboard turn 1 and turn 3 has a good rut, but these didn't affect me hardly at all! The car held the turn with what seemed like no effort on my part. It was very predictable. If anything, I'd say it had a bit of push as I had to start the throttle late in the turn. I felt I could be faster because my truck would top out on the straight. The race itself was hectic, I raced conservative to avoid all the wrecks initially, I ended up taking 2nd place in heat 1 with my fastest laps around 6.5 seconds. I honestly thought I had first! Some guys around me said my truck looked real fast.

I made a few changes. Since I felt a bit more push than I'd like, I changed the right rear and left front spring to the next stiffest. Rotated the tires, and then I changed to the next highest pinion.

Heat 2 started, and I felt alot more power, I could still go up one more pinion I think, but I wasn't topping out anymore and it felt really strong. The truck had a little more steering and also felt a bit looser in the rear. The race started and four laps into it, I ate a spur gear! Arghhh, I was going so fast too. At the end, I found out I turned a 6.1 second lap which was the fastest lap yet! I did a really clean pass to this one vet there and passed him on the outside of the turn 3 with the bad rut while he bounced a bit!

So I bought a kevlar spur gear, and left my truck exactly the same.

During the main, I started 4th. The buzzer sounded and I darted and took everyone at turn 2 on the inside, the truck held! I kept first for about 2 minutes and I was coming up on some crazy lap traffic and was bumped by someone outside the track. The marshal was slow getting me back in the race and put me at the end of the pack. So I just raced as hard as I could, avoiding the wrecks as best I could, I passed everyone and caught all the way up to the leader and we had a good few laps of good clean racing within about 1-3 car lengths. I ended up taking a few turns a bit wide and taking 2nd place in the main!

So now I am one-up ahead with my truck setup for saturdays race. I noticed a bit of bouncing on the rear of the truck, it wasn't too much, but enough that I think I will go to 40WT in the rear. I am going to reset the springs back to what they were initially with one higher tooth in pinion and start practice from there.

So thanks for the help everyone! And my only broken part was a spur gear which is much more than I can say for some of the other guys. Thanks for all the help guys!

If you have any more tips, let us know!

[richardsonracin]

Try leaving the rear soft, keep both rear springs the same and soften both front springs if you feel you need more steering. A planted rear is always a good thing! You can also raise the rear rideheight for more steering or lower the front rideheight. Glad you did well.

[richardsonracin]

Did you make it anywhere to race, or at least watch the races Loop?

How did you do Sat. Matt?