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Old 12-09-2004, 02:01 PM   #31
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O.k.; I guess I'm the one that missunderstood. If you are not suggesting it for sanctioned racing, then I see no problem. I was speaking entirely from a racer's point of view. If you just want to bash in your back yard or in a parking lot with some buddies, I think injection is great (but I'd rather be bl... never mind). It is a little ironic in a way that cheapo street car technology has outstripped the most succesfull racing series around. There is a reason for that, though. It doesn't matter what technology they are running; they have had to severely limit this '60's technology to keep the speeds down for safety on the one hand and costs on the other. More modern technology would just be more severely limited to keep the speeds the same. The end result has been racing on the track rather than at the bank. I'm just affraid of R/C further degenerating into a race of wallets, which is where injection would lead us. Keep it off our race tracks and I have no problem with it.
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Old 12-09-2004, 03:16 PM   #32
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This sounds alot like brushless vs. brushed electric motors the more I think about it. ROAR approved brushless motor systems because there was demand, and a few manufacturers made commitments to produce them, and conform to the same motor specs. In the end, the LRP and Novak brushless systems are more expensive than a decent mod motor and esc combo, but not rediculously expensive. Take into account the high cost of maintaining and replacing a hot brushed mod motor, and brushless setup ends up being FAR cheaper in the long run.

Carb vs injection system likely would be similar, especially if approved by ROAR, in that multiple manufacturers would have to sell them, and they couldn't be too outrageously expensive. Performance would be the same as a very well tuned carb, but since it wouldn't lean out from time to time, the engine should last longer between rebuilds, justifying the higher initial cost.

They key is keeping the cost realistically low (1.5 times the cost of a carb engine seems reasonable) and having multiple manufacturers produce evenly matched solutions.

HOWEVER, I doubt it will happen because engine manufacturers make LOTS of money from lean runs!
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Old 12-09-2004, 04:25 PM   #33
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Costs are the big issue. If injection lowers costs on engines, even if the initial purchase cost is more, then that could be a good thing. That has not been the case in the airplane hobby, but they do use their engines differently. They are not as highly stressed and normally not leaned out for every ounce of power. Being racers, though, I can see car guys finding ways to alter injection; they will still run the wrong plug at times; they will find ways to still hurt their motors. Just because it's injected does not mean it can't be tuned. If it can be tuned, it can be screwed up.

I can kind of see where you are going with the brushless argument. I kind of think gas motors are a little different, though. Brushed motors are so darn archaic and crude, and they have such an obvious weak point. I don't see carburated vs. injected making the big leap that brushless did. I see injection more on the level of some hot new brush that is better enough to need it to win, but doubles the cost of a motor. I'm not sure if there is any engine technology out there that would provide us with the leap in longevity and reliability that brushless did for electric. I don't think injection will.
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Old 12-09-2004, 05:48 PM   #34
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You hit the nail right on the head when you said brushed engines are "archaic" when compred to brushless. Well i definitely think carbs are "archaic" compared to EFI!!! While the cost maybe initially higher, the ability to have a microprocessor/software tune the engine instead of fiddling with 1/2/3 needle valves is worth it.
NO MAJOR MOTORSPORT stills mainly runs carbs except NASCAR. The main reason for running EFI is greater control of the engine under ALL conditions when racing. I hate the fact that I need to tune this stupid 2 stroke because of air temp change or humiidty.
Last year I ran at 2 tracks in the same day. One track was in the sun and the other track was shady. The engine ran non-stop while at the sunny track but ran like a pig at the shady track!!! I for one do NOT want to adjust needles once the engine is tuned because of weather changes. A cheap microcontroller can control
a variable needle much better than I ever could. EFI = Brushless:
Carbs are old time tech and need to go!!!
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Old 12-09-2004, 06:53 PM   #35
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Without those three needles to play with, us old farts that can tune carbs in our sleep will lose a major advantage. I do see your point, but tuning is part of the game. Just like cutting coms, drilling or trimming brushes, aligning hoods, and all that other crap that goes away with a switch to brushless. It's funny when I think about it; I'm all for brushless but totaly against injection, unless it lowers costs. Hmmm... maybe I should give this some more thought.
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Old 12-09-2004, 10:42 PM   #36
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efi would be nice, then i wouldn't have to waste my time tuning the engine and i would get more run time. Right now my engine is tuned by someone and it runs great and low temp, but if i start tuning something it will run like crap.
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