blis

Great reading guys, keep it open minded and I have no serious research into the reactive qualities of oils at varying temperatures and environmental conditions.

One thing I know is that since giving up on after run and spending some time flushing out my engines, specially my bearings, cleaning the carbon deposits from buttons and piston head I've manged to have happy run time for several years with a conrod replacement well after the recommended time.

Ive been using AT Racing platinum (Australia) part of the VP group I think. I also run in the sub-tropics in Brisbane, Queensland with regular high humidity and I ALWAYS have so called "rust" on the crank. I simply pull my engine down and clean it. 30 minutes and Im done and ready for another day.

While I wish my engines looked like some after a run, it's never been the case, Ive tried a few fuels over the 5 years, much a muchness. The NEO+ is burns my eyes, not sure why and what's in it that does it.

Anyway, I'll shrug and carry on doing the same as I have been for the last few years, maintaining it by opening the engine up, cleaning it, flushing my bearing clean, oiling and putting it all back and it's worked for me.

I'm open to anyone that has the MAGIC bullet to overcome the work. I also feel the work has added to the longevity of my engines, I'm not a modder or great tuner at all, yet I struggle to think that any fuel mix running at 40K rpm in a .12cubic inch engine will keep it free of carbon, avoid oxidisation ad be totally maintenance free.

Keep the info coming, it's great!

Thanks

h

houston

iTrader: (96)

Contrary to popular belief the absolute best after run method is to NOT RUN THE ENGINE OUT OF FUEL , running the engine out of fuel is also running the engine out of its lubrication

Simply dump the excess out of the tank after you are done running , also when storing you should leave vehicle nose down so the excess oil doesnt just lye in the bearing races and etch the steel causing bearing failure

Castor/synth mix is the dialed fuel

bigjayjay1

iTrader: (86)

Also people run there engines to Burn excessive gas on a cold restart they hold on a bump box forever this adds a lot of stress not recommended.

houston

iTrader: (96)

Before starting , prime the engine by blowing into the pressure line and opening carburetor

It'll fire up first bump if preheated

NAA

[QUOTE=nitroexpress;11559806]Chris, ,i just dont think you are getting it. Sorry mate i cant explain it better. Iv tred to xplain it to you but i cant understand it for you as well.

Cheers

Naa

NAA

its a personal preference,

Roelof

Not only lubrication but the engine will get a to lean moment on the last drop, when running a lot of rpm it can damage the plug with the chance to damage the engine.

blis

Burning off the residual fuel is something I dont do either. If I dont have time to clean my engine, I turn over my engine with some after run oil as is and then deal with it at home.

Also, another practice I dont do is dump the fuel out of my tank. I simply loop the fuel line back onto the pressure feed nipple and leave the fuel in the tank leaving a small amount in the tank. Prior to warming up my engines (which I heat for my race engines) I fill her up with fresh fuel and no problems. I've been doing this for years now and while I understand it's stale never caused me any grief.

What was interesting is that at our National titles our president was in scrutiny and while he was pumping out the tanks for volume checks he noticed some tanks were very hard to pump out. I'm hypothesising (unproven)
that fuels are gumming up the filters. However, it could be something else such as the filter itself etc.

On the topic of run time, does synthetic perform better, producing more revs and consuming more fuel to the mix. Is it because the engine has to run richer, perhaps it's not lubricating as well and temps rise hence the tune is richened. Or is it the driver and their throttle finger.

As for castor oil as after run, Ive noticed it gums up the bearings badly and wouldnt recommend do it, it's nasty!! I use a non ATO gear oil I am concerned that it may be the cause of excess carbon deposits and will one day fire up and check immediately after.

Note I use the "after run" as an oil while rebuilding the engine, not the usual cranking ion the starter box method.

I did my normal check.. Wire Brushed clean some steel, 1 spot of just oil, 1 spot of just fuel and 1 spot of oil and fuel. Leave overnight and see the results. I wanted to check there were no adverse reactions between the oil and fuel and to observe the anti-oxidant properties of the oil as well.

Still, it's good reading, there's a wealth of experience in the thread and I'm impressed that people are keeping an open mind. Anything that helps increase the longevity of Engines in RC is a good thing for Nitro RC hobby.

As one last point of interest, having lost the silicon ramp in the crank just before a SEMI FINAL has anyone explored the impact of chemicals and the silicon and o-rings? My poor son had the ramp let go and it was stuck in the intake port and ruined his event.

NitroVein

Well, first of all a PAO-oil is a group-IV oil and I´m not even sure there is any oil in that group that will mix with alcohol.
PAG and Esters are in group-V.

Then when you write that it´s a "synthetic castor", do you mean that the Ester-oil is based on the fatty-acids from castor?

Did you read through the Maxima page on what they have to say about castor vs Esters?

I also have some work from a university regarding study of esters, but I´m not sure I´m allowed to upload that... And it´s most likely not of interest for most anyhow!
(But although they are old as oils, I believe they are the future)

I´m have seen and therefore believe in Esters, but I´m far from ready for giving up on castor-oil! Maybe when they make an Ester that smells just like castor...

houston

iTrader: (96)

petroleum based distillates will swell the silicone as it is absorbed by the silicone , castor works fine for ARO unless you are going to let the engine sit for over 4-6 months(ish) , i go through ALOT of castor oil (byrons lube booster actually) and use it as assembly lube with no issues unless as stated above . a good synthetic oil works very well as ARO and will not mix with the silicone as marvels,wd40and other such petroleum based distillates will if left for a period of time




NAA - i am not disputing any fact you have but over the course of many years and multiples of thousands of engines i can only say a fuel with at least 2-3% castor per gallon is the best blend . i have seen many engines here from australia running runner time,sidewinder ts,nitro x , neo+ , purple rush and i can say i am not impressed with the shape of the internals and especially the bearings (purple rush being the worst i have ever seen)

facts are facts and hearsay is hearsay

once again our micromotors are fairly unique in the sense that they use the mixed "2stroke" nitro/methanol/oil based as its lubricating media as well as the go juice in the combustion chamber , this is a major major difference in micromotors as opposed to gas burning two stroke engines , very very very different type of engines

NAA

This is incorrect i formation. The opposite of what is true.

Ill prove my point. And in order to learn facts you must experiment for you self or you are relying on falde info.

Ok expeiment. after you run an engine detatch the fuel line. Ok so there is no posibility of fuel getting into th engine. Then try to start it. In most cases the engine will run for up to 10 - 15 seconds. This is undoubted proof there is sill methanol present because methanol is the most flammable of all the ingreients in rc fuel.

Keep bumping the engine till it finally flat lines, ie has burned every bit of fuel.

Now take off the back plate and swab the internals. You will find plenty of oil left in the engine., so this proves your theory in correct. Dont take my word for it, do the experiment and see for your own eyes.


Methanol is a hygroscopic and attracts moisture. Nitric acid residue left in the engine plus moisture can end up in corrosion with or without castor present.

The other method of choking the engine at temp and leaving it is doing the exact same thing. The heat of the engine should boil off the methanol. BUT if you dont leave it at BDC the gasses are trapped in the engine. So if you just leave it without burning it off as described above then remember to put the piston at BDC.

Naa

sschultz

iTrader: (15)

[ a good synthetic oil works very well as ARO and will not mix with the silicone as marvels,wd40and other such petroleum vased distillates will if left for a period of time


I use a mix of 50/50 marvel, ATF fluid for my ARO. Its what I made to care for my air tools. Have done it for years. I know the pistons have some kind of silicone in them, I don't understand this, but am sure its for good reason. So I'm doing a bad thing using a petroleum based oil? All I notice is a bit of residue on the top of piston which comes from the ARO I use I'm sure, but has never been excessive (can buff off with a rag). I don't want to harm the piston so I would assume I shouldn't practice this anymore

houston

iTrader: (96)

really? i have tested and tested and tested so many different ways of doing things with these nitro engines it would make your head spin bro

i am not trying to argue with you persay but you are trying to put alterior meanings and methods into what i am posting

yes you really should leave piston at bdc (thats a given that any nitro enthusiast should be learned asap)

i agree that the proper mix of castor/synth oil is best for our engines , i am not disputing that but a full synth fuel that equals the long term protection and ease of tuning that our production fuels that are available now would be unmarketable

NAA

No i have not read this article. I will most definitely. My information is from 10 years of experimentation and designing high end race fuels. Fuels that have been used in engines that need a no bs approach to science or my 30 k engine is coming out of your pocket, kind of research.

Having people rely on me this way pushes me to be absolutely positively sure beyond any resonable doubt in my research. So what i say here is not a guess. Its results. You cannot dispute actual results. You can dipute heresay.

And i lurve the smell of castor too! big time! I wish i had a humidifier in my room with castrol r30 in it. Heven!

My point eventually will come across in simply being. Do not just blanket all synthetics based on comparison to cheaper pao synthetics in model fuel.

HOUSTON

The condition of n internal combustion engine is more to do with maintenance. Most the fuels you mentioned have castor in them. Id say if you saw my engines you would dispute if they had ever been run. The best documented result i have had is engines running for over 140 litres and still going. One of which is one of my team drivers who follows my maintenance program to the letter and runs my fuels with about 120 litres through his race engine and still going.

Maintenance is so important. Tuning, air flters, man the bs info out ther is the cause of the problems in rc. I really want to change that.

You will see that reading a thread thats based on facts is far more interesting to read because its info you can use.

NAA

My definition of a " synthetic castor " is a synthetic designed to emmulate the better propities of a mineral castor oil without its tendancy to be unstable or cause gum and varnish.

While also enjoying the positive effects of an ester based synthetic that can withstand extrem pressure and heat without breaking down because it is deigned for this specific purpose.

This is wht I mean when i say this.

HOUSTON

i dont mean ny dis respect at all. I know you are one of the best guys on the net and very helpful. But if there is something un true dont post it here. Ill pick it apart and show you the faults.

About 40% of large scale race engines i work with run methanol and oil only and some mix in nitromethane. So the only differece between our micro motors and theirs are piston rings. Everything in the lubrictive and combustion process i identicle excep for the plug.

So my info actually translates acros the board. It does so because i actually started to ntroduce rc fuel technology and processes into full scale and it worked. I was particularly interested in making a quality fuel because i made it for my self initially. I had to look far and wide to find quality synthetics outside of our rc market because i found a reduction in performance using castor. Micro engines are extremly snsitive to small changes in weight and windage. Castors natural properties were detracting from what i was trying to achieve. So i looked at syntheics with less resisrance but better shearing strengh and high heat stability. My research allowed me to truly understand design.
Again imean no disrespect but if someone pots a falce belief i will pull it apart.

Cheers

Naa

Naa