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Old 04-28-2011, 02:20 AM   #31
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Hi Guys
i have a question regarding the pipe and plug.
did someone tried the 2060 pipe and the p3?
i just broke-in it using these two and it seems that it doesnt work as well as some of you written.
the idle is very good, i can leave it for minutes and it will still work.
the middle and high rpm is not as i expected, i usually run the speed, so i may be wrong.
please help :-)
Thanks
Guy R.
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:23 AM   #32
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Huh very interesting as I have found similar results with my Axial .21RR-1. I am using the OS 2050 pipe with the 8mm restrictor and Byron 30% (11% oil) in a D8T Truggy and she's running very strong. Every bit as strong as my OS .21VZB honestly. It's funny you mention the long stroke bacause I did some research and the Axial .21RR-1 is one of the few Long-Stroke motors out there. It has almost the same bore and stroke (by .1 on both) as the more expensive Novarossi .21 ToroNero TTeam (Extra Long Stroke). Below are some interesting numbers to check out:

Axial .21RR-1 $215.00 B:15.9 S:17.5
Novarossi .21 ToroNero $350-$400 B:15.88 S:17.6
OS .21XZ-B $279.99 B:16.3 S:16.8
OS .21VZ-B $254.99 B:16.6 S:16.0
Mugen Ninja JX21 B01A $329.99 B:16.6 S:16.0

For $215.00 it pretty hard to beat in my opinion!
hi.
what plug are u using?
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Old 04-28-2011, 04:29 AM   #33
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well, for the motors i tried,that were right off the shelf......
out of those none of the motors really "Woke-Up" with either of the 2050 or 2060 pipes??? it acted like it would not "Clear out" and when you leaned it a little? it got too hot?? with the P3 it pretty much felt the same? it wouldnt move like how i thought it could? or "Would".....the pipes and the "Axial" guys will confirm this as well,the pipes it seems to like the best are the ones i listed...
but it really seems to "Favor" the JP-2 which in the video is the one i was using in that race......the JP-2 seems to have a pretty good "Balance"
as for plugs? the ones i have been using "mostly" were the O.S. P5 and P4 plugs
in the video,what i was using was losi 8t 2.0 geared at 13/50
with the Axial .21RR-1 with a JP-2 pipe and decided to use the stock JP header, with Byrons 30% w/9% oil with a O.S. P5 plug and my temps that day were around 246
i hope some of this can help....
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Old 04-28-2011, 07:47 AM   #34
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I have a JP3 on mine, but have yet to finish breaking it in due to other commitments . I will report back as soon as I have as to how it runs with this pipe.
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:27 AM   #35
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I have a JP3 on mine, but have yet to finish breaking it in due to other commitments . I will report back as soon as I have as to how it runs with this pipe.
what plug are you using?
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:29 AM   #36
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well, for the motors i tried,that were right off the shelf......
out of those none of the motors really "Woke-Up" with either of the 2050 or 2060 pipes??? it acted like it would not "Clear out" and when you leaned it a little? it got too hot?? with the P3 it pretty much felt the same? it wouldnt move like how i thought it could? or "Would".....the pipes and the "Axial" guys will confirm this as well,the pipes it seems to like the best are the ones i listed...
but it really seems to "Favor" the JP-2 which in the video is the one i was using in that race......the JP-2 seems to have a pretty good "Balance"
as for plugs? the ones i have been using "mostly" were the O.S. P5 and P4 plugs
in the video,what i was using was losi 8t 2.0 geared at 13/50
with the Axial .21RR-1 with a JP-2 pipe and decided to use the stock JP header, with Byrons 30% w/9% oil with a O.S. P5 plug and my temps that day were around 246
i hope some of this can help....
thanks for your help, i'm not sure that my problem is with the pipe/plug, i just finished the break-in (6 tanks) so i'm not sure if the engine should kick or it will still need more tanks.
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Old 04-28-2011, 05:09 PM   #37
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what plug are you using?
Since I just started breaking it in, I'm using stock. I plan to go to a p4 or 99t after.
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Old 04-29-2011, 01:34 AM   #38
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well, for the break-in...oddly at first i was a bit taken back as with most of the motors we were doing testing on (about 20)
most of them more or less easily had a Quick Break in period?
the downside on the Axial, is it does have a somewhat Long Break in,
a little what i have noticed is most of the motors "Now" have Higher Silica content in the motors...i can only take an educated guess is this would be for the higher performaces new motors seem to be able to Attain......down side they take longer to break in......
a good example, the Reedy 121VR-ST takes a little longer than normal...but this particular motor has normal operating temps of 270 degrees....this is it's "Normal Temp Range" i know it seems insane???
but even the guys at Associated will confirm this.....
so newer motors,seem to have this higher silica content,even on one of my motors i thought ok, maybe it's just one of the ones that is maybe not up to par?
then at little over one gallon, it just "Woke-Up" and hit hard...felt like a different motor??
same after the other motors? for some reason? "After" around a Gallon...they start waking up? the 121 was a little like this....
other motors we tried with high silica pistons took a little longer than expected.....
but on this motor at "Least half gal,but 3/4 be better" before pushing it,to race tunings......

one way to help speed it up a little is keep the bottom end rich but keep the engine "Warm" at no less than 200......
but anything less than around a gallon? it just doesnt perform as "Efficiently"



now this is just a basic primer for anyone maybe thinking of breaking in there motor a little quicker,i do not recommend it?
but...??? here it is.......


to do the speed up break in and I really do not recommend it,
if you do for sure replace the con rod.......this is also to assume the user has at least 4 tanks of Fuel through the motor.....
this is to make sure it is saturated with fuel etc.
pre-heat the motor,these motors are pretty tight !! so warm them up slowly to around 200 deg. then start them.....


getting started:
first set EPA so the throttle does not open the carb all the way....
bout half or slightly more....
start and warm the car......
now can use a tenins wrist band? or a 1/10 scale truck tire foam,and put it on the head.....
monitor the temps keep the car or truck on the box,to adjust the bottom end to keep the temps at around 200....
remember the top is already "Rich" so were just allowing more fuel via the bottom end to get in........
but because we have "Blocked the Air-flow" to the head it will get warm,now we need to regulate the amount of fuel from the bottom end....
i know sounds tricky? but it is easy, you will need to play with the idle to be sure the motor will stay running a little,
why the bottom end? a good Question i will get to that in a few...

now when it is climbing to about 190-195 put the car down and do some short figure eights,chase a cat....LOL or Dog...LOL
(just kidding)
but roll the car around for a little bit.....bout 3 to 4 minutes and "Roll-onto the throttle" DONT BLIP IT !!!!!
check the temps,do not let it get too hot !! 240 is "Ok"
260 -270 not too good, richen the bottom to let more fuel in...
but if it becomes that warm, shut it down,be sure to set the piston at Bottom dead center.....
let it cool all the way....do this 5 more times and will be much closer to full break in,can usually get it in around Half to 3/4 of a gallon...


now "Why from the Bottom End"
ok, how can i explain?
well the top end needle dictates the "Total Amount of Fuel" going into the motor, the bottom end feeds off of this, now the bottom end adjustment just dictates the fuel up to about 1/4 to half throttle, after that it doesnt do a whole lot....
say for an example,you had or have a car where the car stays close to wide open for a duration of a run, where the slider barley closes a little from wide open throttle....the bottom end in this situaton really doesnt have much use...(it does,but were pretending it doesnt)
so if this car stays wide open then one would adjust just the top end to keep the temps in "Range" of the motor's operating temp..

so some ask so why do we need a bottom end needle?
well we need one cause were not driving on the off road tracks and for the most part any track really? WOT ......
so since the motors are not fuel-injected ("Yet") and there in there most basic form a "Air-Pump" we need to regulate it from one point...think of it like 2 little valves...a top valve and a bottom valve.

oddly,a motor will run with a over rich bottom end,will not run well?
and it will get HOT !!!,
ok anyone ever encounter this?
you have broken in your motor,and got it ready to hit the track !!!
you figure ok, i'll still keep it a little rich?
so you start it, but do not "Warm it up"
drop it on the track and run it !!!!....(bad Ju-Ju)...yikes !!

always let the motor warm up,
let the engine idle for a minute or so....

so your running it and it seems ok? your friend temps it? says 230 or something? then you go back out but you have to keep bliping the throttle to keep it running? you bring it back in cause it feels like it is losing power? and it's now a pipeing 280+ to 290 !?!?!!
and your wondering? how? it's rich?? but it got hot..???

this is your bottom end, now before anyone goes off the handle
i'll expalin.....
what happens is the motor (basicly the air pump)
loads up with fuel,while at low idle but instead of adjusting the bottom end? many sometimes will adjust the "Idle Screw"
till it is about the opening of around the Width of 2 credit cards...
about 2mm
now when the motor is running,many start to lean it out !!
what happens the motor begins to use up the fuel within the transfer case! and suddenly you have a "Lean Motor"
how to get out of this, the late Ron Paris explained it best to me back in the day.....
after the motor is broken in, to get it close to the tune,keep the top rich for now,warm up the car(very important) run a few laps,now adjust the bottom end so you have a pretty smooth idle,not too much you want to be in the ball park !!
run a couple of laps, bring it in and adjust it a tick or two,and keep it where you bring it in rev it for a sec, it will idle high then drop,and stay there for about 15 to 20 seconds then loads up and stalls....
if you bring it in rev it for a sec, slows down then begins to start idleing ""High" it's a tad lean,richen it a litle.........
another way to tell and this is just to have a refference point,but still need to adjust the bottom !!
pinich off the fuel line about an inch or so,if it stalls "Right Away" your Lean, for "Sure"
if when you pinch it.....
and it runs for more than 7 or 8 seconds seconds
count offne one thousand,two one thousand etc.
your a bit rich, if it is around 5 seconds your "in the ball park"
but still need to adjust.....


you'll know this from the idle adjustment, the slider should only be about .8mm open if that..."Roughly"
now the temps will stay the same...."Why"
(because our "bottom Valve" now is only letting in enough fuel to allow the motor to work for the first 1/4 to half throttle..
"After that" the top end needle takes control,"So to Speak"

now if you adjust the top needle if you run rich, will stay rich,run it for a little more power!! the temps will stay closer,now if you start really leaning it out,you'll have to adjust the bottom a tick or two to keep the balance......

ok so why say to do the oppisite from above?
to do the quicker break in,you'll need more fuel,but need to keep it warm....
adjust EPA so wont over throttle it....
so you'll start the car, warm it up,richen the bottom end,
(our bottom valve lets more "Fuel-into the motor"
the fuel helps keep the motor lubed and COOL,while helping to flush the metal particles out during the break in.....
the HEAT helps the motor in the "Seating Proccess"

adjust the idle screw so the motor wont stall,
put something on the head so it will retain the "Heat"
(truck foam,tenins wrist band etc.)
and keep temps around 200 deg.
richen the bottom end more if the temps are getting high...
now once you done all that for the half gallon or so?
Dont Run It Like This !!!!!!!
go back and adjust the carb settings !!!
idle gap, bout .7-.8 mm
top end at the settings from the pic i left in a previous post,
and bottom end set it close to those settings, and give about 2 hours leaner,now that the motor is closer to break in....
adjust as discribed, hit track and win some races !!!!



now i hope this can help a little i been getting a TON of mail asking on it and what i did and what i use,so i do hope this can help....
i know a picture is worth a thousand words...LOL
so i'll try and get some videos and pics up soon if there is something in particular they want to see???
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Old 04-29-2011, 08:01 PM   #39
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Okay, started break in;

Stock plug
O'Donnell 20%
head wrapped in aluminum foil with sock over it
Air temp 79%
barometric pressure 2979

The posted "updated settings" for turbo head did NOT work for me. Wayyyy too rich. Went back to stock flush, flush and that hit the spot

Heat gunned to 205 and started righ up. After a half tank of idle and cool down. Heat gunned again to 200 and started right up. Did 4 runs of 1/4 throttle pukingly rich at 4 minutes a piece, cooling and heat gunning on restart. Then another 4 cycles at 1/2 throttle keeping temps at around 210. On the next heat gun start the foil and sock came off and leaned the low end a bit to keep temps up and 1/2 throttle runs with a few run ups to 3/4 throttle for 5 minutes x 4 runs. Now at 1/2 turn in on low end and still plenty of smoke. Next series for 5 minutes at 4 runs and leaned high end 1/2 turn with still plenty of smoke and temping at 210. Break for the Spurs game.

I have found that the needles lead beautifully into what is appropriate when breaking in. It definitely told me when to start leaning just a bit. Tomorrow will bring some slow track time through a couple of tanks with mild tuning and we'll see what brings
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Old 05-03-2011, 02:16 PM   #40
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Race weekend coming up and she I in my Durango 408. We'll see how it goes an will report back.
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Old 05-05-2011, 07:03 AM   #41
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Thinking of running a Dyn053 or JP4 on it this weekend to race; any suggestions?
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Old 05-05-2011, 07:09 PM   #42
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well we tried the Dynamite 53's and the JP-4's
the JP-4 did not have as much overall but it does not mean it will not work?
the 3 tracks we went to to try all the different pipes the JP-4's did not really
"Wake the Motor Up"
the 53's were better but the 007 was better from the Dynamite line.....
again doesnt mean they wont work?
but tracks size and how the "Track is Laid out" jumps etc. will have some bearing on performance......
but here is a "General rule of Thumb" again is in "General" not an Absolute.
longer header longer pipe "More Bottom end"
shorter, more "Top-End"
2 and 3 chamber pipes "Similar" to the JP-2 and Novarossi 9901 pipes
seem to "Work Best".........
the 9901 with a 41020 will dig itself in te ground....lot of bottom with good runtime with this pipe/header combo.


but i would try those pipes you have, and give us your insight on your track
how they worked.....
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:13 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by 1BLADE1 View Post
well we tried the Dynamite 53's and the JP-4's
the JP-4 did not have as much overall but it does not mean it will not work?
the 3 tracks we went to to try all the different pipes the JP-4's did not really
"Wake the Motor Up"
the 53's were better but the 007 was better from the Dynamite line.....
again doesnt mean they wont work?
but tracks size and how the "Track is Laid out" jumps etc. will have some bearing on performance......
but here is a "General rule of Thumb" again is in "General" not an Absolute.
longer header longer pipe "More Bottom end"
shorter, more "Top-End"
2 and 3 chamber pipes "Similar" to the JP-2 and Novarossi 9901 pipes
seem to "Work Best".........
the 9901 with a 41020 will dig itself in te ground....lot of bottom with good runtime with this pipe/header combo.


but i would try those pipes you have, and give us your insight on your track
how they worked.....
Will do just that. I have three lying around and I'll give them a shot before selling the farm. I race on a medium layout that fairly technical, so we'll see how it goes.
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:20 PM   #44
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Almost a gallon through her and chased a tune until switching to an O'Donnell 97T. Small increments on the needles as the adjustment window seems to get smaller as you get close. Temping at 215 to 225 and crisp o. Point with good smoke. Temp was 83 with 50% humidity. Tomorrow is race day!
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Old 05-12-2011, 06:13 AM   #45
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well did some more little things on the Motor, nothing Internal, just little set up stuff maybe can toss out for everyone...... in a sec...

well for the most part, got ALLOT of mail on those that now have gotten there Motor to the Break in point and they seem to be working Really GOOD !!! nice to hear about some cool feedback !!
the good news,it seems more and more are having good luck with several different kinds of pipes !! this is great news !!
because i have to stress,
many will Argue, this is best this is best this works for this.....
BUT !!
all i can say is for the few tracks we did some running on the pipes i suggested worked the best for the given tracks we were on,
so dont toss those pipes !!! try them !!
just because i pipe we used and tried did not fair that well at one of our given tracks, by No means it will not work on another given track
so,
different pipes will lend themselves to different track conditions and layouts, as well as size of track....
one of the main tracks i race at is Pretty big!!! and sometimes the layouts are challanging even for "Electric 1/8 scales" let alone a truggy with a Clutch !!
so some pipes i suggested will do pretty good at tracks pretty similar to the one in the video i posted......

now on clutches, i got a GRIP of mail on this one.....
well, it is hard to say? every track is different?
with the advent of newer clutch systems changing springs and shoes is pretty easy.....some older systems you had to have special tools?
usually a third hand helped!!...LOL and sometimes blood from poking your finger was always the norm....LOL

for me, at my track and the way i drive...as well i have a Losi buggy and truggy 2.0 series.....in truck for me a good starting point was all Alloy shoes, with 2 gold and 2 green,in buggy with the Axial .21 i found for "Me" does not mean will be the same for everyone?
but for me tried 2 alloy shoes with green springs and 2 carbon shoes with "Black" springs and it was a Beast !!!!
so give that a shot....if you have a losi series car....
for other systems try different spring rates, it is well worth the effort!
i also tried a "Steel" flywheel and kinda liked how it felt??
so try some different things with this new motor !!

and a one thing on last item i got on "Modifing it"....???
i got a bunch of mail on this one....
my Question was....."Why"
the motor itself is in it's Simplest form already Modified....
the crank is "Lightened and Epoxy Filled" and Balanced.....
so it spools up pretty fast !!! for those that now already have them broken in, you'll notice this on the straightaways !!! in a buggy it's like and F-1 going through traffic !!!!
so, ok granted you'll need to fine tune this one a little more if running it in a truggy...but the end result is a nice run !!!
in buggies, WOW !!!!....
but latley, more and more people have asked what Motor am i running,to them many have said it looks really fast?? i cant tell since i am running it? so i have to take there word...??

the piston and sleeve, well it's a 7 port so it is a very "Smooth" motor....and the power band is Neutral, not to one side or other....
mostly what many ask in getting a motor "Modded"
some ask to have more power??
my thing is if someone wants more power from a .21 type motor?
need to get a .28 motor....

some asked will there be a 5 port? or a 3 port...???
well i can't imagine it being a 3 port !! if they did it would probally pull itself apart!!!....

so last weekend ran some more club racing on it....and though "This Motor" has about 2 gallons on it,it was still breaking in.....
and during that time only had 2 flame outs and that was My fault! not the motors...and ran out of fuel twice....LOL but it happens when you forget to come in for fuel and are having way too much fun....LOL

i did have a chance to talk to some of the guys at Axial over the weekend at the track and everyone was tossing some notes so going to try a few things....and i'll post some cool stuff later....
for now thought maybe toss some insight for anyone courious?
so, try some pipes and tell us how they worked at "Your Track"
was it in a buggy or a truggy? how did it feel?
how did it work for "You".....what car or truck? and your clutch
and i'll try and post some more videos of the Axial in Action !!

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