6LikesRB Concept Engine Thread
12-10-2007, 12:36 PM
#16
hi steve,
forgot about the best pipe manifold combo for it:
it all depends on the track you are runnng on, we have used the E1352_022013p setup and its worked extremely well, the mileage was awesome and the sound killer
we have also tested extensively with mark sweeney, one of our team drivers, and found the e1351_052018 pipe manifold combo to work really well also, usually provided beter bottom end but less top speed.
the 2018 pipe set can be used with our 04P, 05P and or 06P manifolds, these are all conical manifolds and the numbers represent lengths, the smaller the number the shorter the manifold and the lager the number the longer the manifold. Its importaint to have all of the manifolds if you want the best possible chance to find the right combination.
hope that helps
thanks
kevin @ RB USA
forgot about the best pipe manifold combo for it:
it all depends on the track you are runnng on, we have used the E1352_022013p setup and its worked extremely well, the mileage was awesome and the sound killer
we have also tested extensively with mark sweeney, one of our team drivers, and found the e1351_052018 pipe manifold combo to work really well also, usually provided beter bottom end but less top speed.
the 2018 pipe set can be used with our 04P, 05P and or 06P manifolds, these are all conical manifolds and the numbers represent lengths, the smaller the number the shorter the manifold and the lager the number the longer the manifold. Its importaint to have all of the manifolds if you want the best possible chance to find the right combination.
hope that helps
thanks
kevin @ RB USA
12-10-2007, 02:56 PM
#17
Tech Adept
dremel boy
what are some of the things that we should be aware about with the xenon r compared to typical abc engines and how should this engine be broken in.
what are some of the things that we should be aware about with the xenon r compared to typical abc engines and how should this engine be broken in.
12-10-2007, 09:59 PM
#18
hi steve,
forgot about the best pipe manifold combo for it:
it all depends on the track you are runnng on, we have used the E1352_022013p setup and its worked extremely well, the mileage was awesome and the sound killer
we have also tested extensively with mark sweeney, one of our team drivers, and found the e1351_052018 pipe manifold combo to work really well also, usually provided beter bottom end but less top speed.
the 2018 pipe set can be used with our 04P, 05P and or 06P manifolds, these are all conical manifolds and the numbers represent lengths, the smaller the number the shorter the manifold and the lager the number the longer the manifold. Its importaint to have all of the manifolds if you want the best possible chance to find the right combination.
hope that helps
thanks
kevin @ RB USA
forgot about the best pipe manifold combo for it:
it all depends on the track you are runnng on, we have used the E1352_022013p setup and its worked extremely well, the mileage was awesome and the sound killer
we have also tested extensively with mark sweeney, one of our team drivers, and found the e1351_052018 pipe manifold combo to work really well also, usually provided beter bottom end but less top speed.
the 2018 pipe set can be used with our 04P, 05P and or 06P manifolds, these are all conical manifolds and the numbers represent lengths, the smaller the number the shorter the manifold and the lager the number the longer the manifold. Its importaint to have all of the manifolds if you want the best possible chance to find the right combination.
hope that helps
thanks
kevin @ RB USA
Thanks Kevin
12-11-2007, 04:23 AM
#19
Tech Adept
dremelboy,
I was with CRF last season, bunch of reasons force me to make a switch to another engine brand.
More than a half of our buggy guys use RB, no one has been seen in nitro sedan class though...
Could you please give a basic explanation on differences between?
- R3
- V12series
- C12series
and
- MATRIXseries
What would be the best choice if looking for:
- Cheapest price?
- Best price / performance?
- Best performance?
Br,
J.
I was with CRF last season, bunch of reasons force me to make a switch to another engine brand.
More than a half of our buggy guys use RB, no one has been seen in nitro sedan class though...
Could you please give a basic explanation on differences between?
- R3
- V12series
- C12series
and
- MATRIXseries
What would be the best choice if looking for:
- Cheapest price?
- Best price / performance?
- Best performance?
Br,
J.
12-11-2007, 11:28 AM
#20
Hello FITO
the XenonR is different than any engine you will ever run. I receive a lot of calls from people that have problems with the xenonr's because they are trying to tune them and break them in like ABC engines.
An AAC (aluminum sleeve, aluminum piston, hard chromed sleeve) motor requires a more patient and careful break in and warm up period prior to putting them on the track.
There are different theories on how to break these things in but the best thing anyone can do for themselves when going to start these engines for the first time is to have a heat gun or blow drier and preheat the motor for a short period of time to help the internal components expand evenly and relieve some of that initial pinch. The AAC motors have more taper at the top of the liner, preheating helps to relieve some of that initial pinch that will cause frequent TDC lockups
The instructions supplied with the engine are a good starting point and our website in france has great help as well, here are a few bsic links on the site that are helpful to have
http://www.rbproducts.com/mainEn.php...20the%20engine
http://www.rbproducts.com/mainEn.php?part=Support&L=En
I always suggest mounting the engine in the car and breaking it in on the chassis, i think break in benches are fine for the very experienced but its too easy to loose a finger if not properly trained or experienced with the prop method.
The first few tanks are critical to the life of the piston and sleeve, make sure to preheat, for the first tank start the engine up and let it sit and idle through an entire tank, in some cases you will need to raise the idle speed and or lean the bottom end needle a bit, this is normal so no need to woory if it needs to be adjusted.
For the next few tanks the car should be driven on the track at varying speeds, 1/4 throttle 1/2 throttle 1/8th throttle, varying the RPM's for all of the internal parts to begin cycling and seating properly. Realistically it will probably take 1/2 a gallon of fuel of varying the engine through a range of cycles, and by this i mean 1/8, 1/4 and 1/2 throttle cycles, before things have seated properly. Its very importaint to keep an eye on the rear main bearings of the engine, because they are subjected to contact with nitro all the time, if you have bad fuel or improperly stored fuel it can dramatically lessen the life of your bearings so keep a very close eye out for the feel of the bearing. You should disasssmble and inspect the engine after each race day and if you hear any strange noises immidetly stop running the engine and tear it down for inspection to make sure all inside is working properly.
For that 1/2 gallon of fuel that you have used the engine and cycled it be sure there is no left over nitro fuel inside the motor if at all possible after you are done, either disassamble the engine after the end of a race day and wipe everything down or run the engine out of fuel, doing this allows the majority of left over or unburnt nitro to burn off while the engine is still warm
I have personally seen many of the XenonR's with 3-5 gallons of fuel through them before they start loosing life, but these were very carefully cared for engines. I have also seen some of the engines go after just 1 weekend because of poor maintenance and improper break in and lack of tuning experience with AAC based engines. There is no way to give you a life expectancy but i can tell you that if you do things properly and ask questions first before assuming you know what you are doing it can save you alot of time and headaches.
After that 1/2 gallon of fuel thats been run through the engine, the engine is more than likely ready to start leaning out more and more until you have the power you desire. The clutch setup on the XenonR is extremely critical and so is the pipe and manifold selection so be careful there too, but when you get a XenonR thats been run in properly, has the right pipe and manifold and clutch setup, you have in your hands one of the fastest most dangerous engines available.
Hope that helps and ust ask questions if you got them, we are here to help as best we can
regards
kevin @ RB USA
the XenonR is different than any engine you will ever run. I receive a lot of calls from people that have problems with the xenonr's because they are trying to tune them and break them in like ABC engines.
An AAC (aluminum sleeve, aluminum piston, hard chromed sleeve) motor requires a more patient and careful break in and warm up period prior to putting them on the track.
There are different theories on how to break these things in but the best thing anyone can do for themselves when going to start these engines for the first time is to have a heat gun or blow drier and preheat the motor for a short period of time to help the internal components expand evenly and relieve some of that initial pinch. The AAC motors have more taper at the top of the liner, preheating helps to relieve some of that initial pinch that will cause frequent TDC lockups
The instructions supplied with the engine are a good starting point and our website in france has great help as well, here are a few bsic links on the site that are helpful to have
http://www.rbproducts.com/mainEn.php...20the%20engine
http://www.rbproducts.com/mainEn.php?part=Support&L=En
I always suggest mounting the engine in the car and breaking it in on the chassis, i think break in benches are fine for the very experienced but its too easy to loose a finger if not properly trained or experienced with the prop method.
The first few tanks are critical to the life of the piston and sleeve, make sure to preheat, for the first tank start the engine up and let it sit and idle through an entire tank, in some cases you will need to raise the idle speed and or lean the bottom end needle a bit, this is normal so no need to woory if it needs to be adjusted.
For the next few tanks the car should be driven on the track at varying speeds, 1/4 throttle 1/2 throttle 1/8th throttle, varying the RPM's for all of the internal parts to begin cycling and seating properly. Realistically it will probably take 1/2 a gallon of fuel of varying the engine through a range of cycles, and by this i mean 1/8, 1/4 and 1/2 throttle cycles, before things have seated properly. Its very importaint to keep an eye on the rear main bearings of the engine, because they are subjected to contact with nitro all the time, if you have bad fuel or improperly stored fuel it can dramatically lessen the life of your bearings so keep a very close eye out for the feel of the bearing. You should disasssmble and inspect the engine after each race day and if you hear any strange noises immidetly stop running the engine and tear it down for inspection to make sure all inside is working properly.
For that 1/2 gallon of fuel that you have used the engine and cycled it be sure there is no left over nitro fuel inside the motor if at all possible after you are done, either disassamble the engine after the end of a race day and wipe everything down or run the engine out of fuel, doing this allows the majority of left over or unburnt nitro to burn off while the engine is still warm
I have personally seen many of the XenonR's with 3-5 gallons of fuel through them before they start loosing life, but these were very carefully cared for engines. I have also seen some of the engines go after just 1 weekend because of poor maintenance and improper break in and lack of tuning experience with AAC based engines. There is no way to give you a life expectancy but i can tell you that if you do things properly and ask questions first before assuming you know what you are doing it can save you alot of time and headaches.
After that 1/2 gallon of fuel thats been run through the engine, the engine is more than likely ready to start leaning out more and more until you have the power you desire. The clutch setup on the XenonR is extremely critical and so is the pipe and manifold selection so be careful there too, but when you get a XenonR thats been run in properly, has the right pipe and manifold and clutch setup, you have in your hands one of the fastest most dangerous engines available.
Hope that helps and ust ask questions if you got them, we are here to help as best we can
regards
kevin @ RB USA
12-11-2007, 01:26 PM
#21
12-12-2007, 08:58 AM
#22
Tech Regular
iTrader: (2)
I would also like to add , that motor temp while breaking it in is very important
do not go over 200 or under 170 while breaking it in get it up to temp
then cycle it to 195 - 200 at no more then 3/4 throtle make sure to let the
motor cool down to room temp between runs . I always pre heat and
also I do not tune the motor until it is up to temp if you put the car down
on the track for the first time on race day and it is super fast right off
then it is most likey too lean to begin with ( richin it )
do not go over 200 or under 170 while breaking it in get it up to temp
then cycle it to 195 - 200 at no more then 3/4 throtle make sure to let the
motor cool down to room temp between runs . I always pre heat and
also I do not tune the motor until it is up to temp if you put the car down
on the track for the first time on race day and it is super fast right off
then it is most likey too lean to begin with ( richin it )
12-12-2007, 10:35 AM
#23
for those that do not know michael 1
his name is michael shing and is a "B" team driver of ours, he has had extensive experience with the xenonr motors and i have seen many of his own personal engines exceed the 3-5 gallon mark
he has spent much of his time and energy on learning the xenonr's and what makes them work and work well so many of his tips can be very useful.
thank you
kevin @ RB USA
his name is michael shing and is a "B" team driver of ours, he has had extensive experience with the xenonr motors and i have seen many of his own personal engines exceed the 3-5 gallon mark
he has spent much of his time and energy on learning the xenonr's and what makes them work and work well so many of his tips can be very useful.
thank you
kevin @ RB USA
12-12-2007, 11:46 AM
#24
hello janisk
to answer your questions
"dremelboy,
I was with CRF last season, bunch of reasons force me to make a switch to another engine brand.
More than a half of our buggy guys use RB, no one has been seen in nitro sedan class though...
Could you please give a basic explanation on differences between?
- R3
- V12series
- C12series
and
- MATRIXseries
What would be the best choice if looking for:
- Cheapest price?
- Best price / performance?
- Best performance?
our engines are used extensively in offroad and have won many world and national championships.
the sedan market is a very different game compared to offroad, while we would like to see more of a presence of our engines in 1/10th sedan all we can do is continue to offer a very good engine thats very capable of winning races if the engines are given a chance.
many of the guys that run sedan are either sponsored or get stuff from the sponsored guys. we do not have teams like many of the other manufacturers out there and i think this hurts us in a way.
for the engines
the C12 and the V12 engines that we have in our lineup currently are slowly being phased out. When all remaining C12 and V12 engines left in stock run out we will not produce any more, the replacement parts will be available for a long time to come however.
The push these days is the R3 motor, RODY and the guys in Europe have done extensive testing with it and according to him and the guys on the team in france the R3 is a better all around motor compared to anything we offered in the program in the past.
The R3 is actually a long stroke engine and not a short stroke engine like many of the engines in the past have been, there have been some complaints from people on the phones and the forums that the engines are not as fast as the novarossi 12 plus3ct's and a few others, but then again our R3 doesnt cost almost $500.00 street price. The goal is to provide engines to the masses at realistic prices that offer excellent performance, mileage, and parts availability.
I have seen and tested the R3 motor with both the E1751_195401 and the e1752_2611 speedline pipe of ours and each pipe manifold combo offered fuel mileage and power advantages under different track conditions and circumstances.
the internals of the engine are high end, piston is billet cnc macheined, the underside of the combustion chamber has the oring that is designed to cut down on vibration that can affect glowplug life and sleeve and piston life. The biggest secret of the R3 is the crankshaft, it uses the biturbo design thats been so famous in our .21 size engines.
one of the nicest things about this engine, and many of the other ones in our program, is that we offer it in package form with matching pipe and manifold sets, and at a cost less than an engine by itself from some of our competitors.
with the E1751_195401 pipe set has the advantage of different length manifolds being able to be used with it.
check this link out
http://www.rbproducts.com/mainEn.php...xieme=composer
this is one of the many projects the factory has been working on to help people with selecting what pipes and manifolds to use.
well i hope this bit of info helps and if you have more questions ask away
thank you
kevin @ RB USA
to answer your questions
"dremelboy,
I was with CRF last season, bunch of reasons force me to make a switch to another engine brand.
More than a half of our buggy guys use RB, no one has been seen in nitro sedan class though...
Could you please give a basic explanation on differences between?
- R3
- V12series
- C12series
and
- MATRIXseries
What would be the best choice if looking for:
- Cheapest price?
- Best price / performance?
- Best performance?
our engines are used extensively in offroad and have won many world and national championships.
the sedan market is a very different game compared to offroad, while we would like to see more of a presence of our engines in 1/10th sedan all we can do is continue to offer a very good engine thats very capable of winning races if the engines are given a chance.
many of the guys that run sedan are either sponsored or get stuff from the sponsored guys. we do not have teams like many of the other manufacturers out there and i think this hurts us in a way.
for the engines
the C12 and the V12 engines that we have in our lineup currently are slowly being phased out. When all remaining C12 and V12 engines left in stock run out we will not produce any more, the replacement parts will be available for a long time to come however.
The push these days is the R3 motor, RODY and the guys in Europe have done extensive testing with it and according to him and the guys on the team in france the R3 is a better all around motor compared to anything we offered in the program in the past.
The R3 is actually a long stroke engine and not a short stroke engine like many of the engines in the past have been, there have been some complaints from people on the phones and the forums that the engines are not as fast as the novarossi 12 plus3ct's and a few others, but then again our R3 doesnt cost almost $500.00 street price. The goal is to provide engines to the masses at realistic prices that offer excellent performance, mileage, and parts availability.
I have seen and tested the R3 motor with both the E1751_195401 and the e1752_2611 speedline pipe of ours and each pipe manifold combo offered fuel mileage and power advantages under different track conditions and circumstances.
the internals of the engine are high end, piston is billet cnc macheined, the underside of the combustion chamber has the oring that is designed to cut down on vibration that can affect glowplug life and sleeve and piston life. The biggest secret of the R3 is the crankshaft, it uses the biturbo design thats been so famous in our .21 size engines.
one of the nicest things about this engine, and many of the other ones in our program, is that we offer it in package form with matching pipe and manifold sets, and at a cost less than an engine by itself from some of our competitors.
with the E1751_195401 pipe set has the advantage of different length manifolds being able to be used with it.
check this link out
http://www.rbproducts.com/mainEn.php...xieme=composer
this is one of the many projects the factory has been working on to help people with selecting what pipes and manifolds to use.
well i hope this bit of info helps and if you have more questions ask away
thank you
kevin @ RB USA
12-12-2007, 12:29 PM
#25
Kevin,
Why are the C12's being phased out?
They are a popular engine here in Australia and to be at the right end of the field you MUST being running a C12 otherwise you're wasting your time.
The R3's seem to have a lot of top end, however the bottom seems to suffer.
Don't get me wrong I love the RB range and have 2 x C12, 1 x V12 and 1 x Matrix.
Why are the C12's being phased out?
They are a popular engine here in Australia and to be at the right end of the field you MUST being running a C12 otherwise you're wasting your time.The R3's seem to have a lot of top end, however the bottom seems to suffer.
Don't get me wrong I love the RB range and have 2 x C12, 1 x V12 and 1 x Matrix.
12-12-2007, 01:26 PM
#26
Tech Adept
dremelboy,
Thank you for a grate explanation,
It was very useful, seems that R3 is going to fill up empty space of my chassis engine mount : D
Br,
J.
Thank you for a grate explanation,
It was very useful, seems that R3 is going to fill up empty space of my chassis engine mount : D
Br,
J.
12-12-2007, 01:39 PM
#27
hello CDS70
please dont get me wrong, both the C12 and the V12 engines are very good engines and will continue to be for many people, but as a manufacturer we need to offer our line thats competitive with our competitions engines.
the sales of the side exhaust C12 engines is almost zero, i can tell you that this year here in the USA we have sold very very few of these, but then again there really isnt a big class for use of these engines.
for the v12, it has been the workhorse .12 in our line up for a number of years now, but as with any engine, it was time for a facelift and so came the birth of the R3.
the numbers of C12's and V12's left in the inventory is still a good number but i think people should know that eventually the engines will be discontinued and phased out.
we have always tried to do our best to support any engine of ours that we have produced,so the replacement parts should be available for quite a while but the reality is that eventually you should pick up another motor if you are looking for motors to replace your older ones.
if you are in need of parts or the engines themselves, www.amainhobbies.com has always done a great job of stocking these and many of their replacement parts
hope that helps
regards
kevin @ RB USA
please dont get me wrong, both the C12 and the V12 engines are very good engines and will continue to be for many people, but as a manufacturer we need to offer our line thats competitive with our competitions engines.
the sales of the side exhaust C12 engines is almost zero, i can tell you that this year here in the USA we have sold very very few of these, but then again there really isnt a big class for use of these engines.
for the v12, it has been the workhorse .12 in our line up for a number of years now, but as with any engine, it was time for a facelift and so came the birth of the R3.
the numbers of C12's and V12's left in the inventory is still a good number but i think people should know that eventually the engines will be discontinued and phased out.
we have always tried to do our best to support any engine of ours that we have produced,so the replacement parts should be available for quite a while but the reality is that eventually you should pick up another motor if you are looking for motors to replace your older ones.
if you are in need of parts or the engines themselves, www.amainhobbies.com has always done a great job of stocking these and many of their replacement parts
hope that helps
regards
kevin @ RB USA
12-12-2007, 01:49 PM
#28
hello CDS70
please dont get me wrong, both the C12 and the V12 engines are very good engines and will continue to be for many people, but as a manufacturer we need to offer our line thats competitive with our competitions engines.
the sales of the side exhaust C12 engines is almost zero, i can tell you that this year here in the USA we have sold very very few of these, but then again there really isnt a big class for use of these engines.
for the v12, it has been the workhorse .12 in our line up for a number of years now, but as with any engine, it was time for a facelift and so came the birth of the R3.
the numbers of C12's and V12's left in the inventory is still a good number but i think people should know that eventually the engines will be discontinued and phased out.
we have always tried to do our best to support any engine of ours that we have produced,so the replacement parts should be available for quite a while but the reality is that eventually you should pick up another motor if you are looking for motors to replace your older ones.
if you are in need of parts or the engines themselves, www.amainhobbies.com has always done a great job of stocking these and many of their replacement parts
hope that helps
regards
kevin @ RB USA
please dont get me wrong, both the C12 and the V12 engines are very good engines and will continue to be for many people, but as a manufacturer we need to offer our line thats competitive with our competitions engines.
the sales of the side exhaust C12 engines is almost zero, i can tell you that this year here in the USA we have sold very very few of these, but then again there really isnt a big class for use of these engines.
for the v12, it has been the workhorse .12 in our line up for a number of years now, but as with any engine, it was time for a facelift and so came the birth of the R3.
the numbers of C12's and V12's left in the inventory is still a good number but i think people should know that eventually the engines will be discontinued and phased out.
we have always tried to do our best to support any engine of ours that we have produced,so the replacement parts should be available for quite a while but the reality is that eventually you should pick up another motor if you are looking for motors to replace your older ones.
if you are in need of parts or the engines themselves, www.amainhobbies.com has always done a great job of stocking these and many of their replacement parts
hope that helps
regards
kevin @ RB USA
12-12-2007, 02:24 PM
#29
WUZZZZZZ UPPPPPPPPPP !
Happy Holidays Kevin to you and your family. Call me.
Happy Holidays Kevin to you and your family. Call me.
12-13-2007, 05:50 AM
#30
Tech Adept
dremelboy
can nitro cleaner be use to clean the engines after use.
when you say the engines lasted 3 to 5 gallons is that changing the conrod every gallon or two,and changing the piston and sleeve or the engine its self before changing anything to it.how often should we change the conrod piston and sleeve.
in on track performance what does the xenon lack compraed to the xenon r, what do i lose
thanks
can nitro cleaner be use to clean the engines after use.
when you say the engines lasted 3 to 5 gallons is that changing the conrod every gallon or two,and changing the piston and sleeve or the engine its self before changing anything to it.how often should we change the conrod piston and sleeve.
in on track performance what does the xenon lack compraed to the xenon r, what do i lose
thanks
Last edited by FITO; 12-13-2007 at 05:08 PM.