NCT 2011??
12-14-2010, 08:42 AM
#31
Tech Regular
I would love to see a sportsman class in the buggy and truggy.
as far as the "sandbagging" goes i think the solution is simple. Say the mains for Pro are 30 min A, 20min B, 10min C, and the rest are 7min. Then you set the sportsman A main at 15 Min. or a max of 20min. (equal to the Pro B) and a 10 min B.
lf you were close to making the B-mains last year then you should run Pro.
you could argue that the sportsman driver doesn't get equal length mains, but that doesn't matter because he is still getting more run time than he got before.
If i am a guy that is battling to make the C main, i would probably sign up for sportsman in hope of making the sportsman A.
If I'm a guy that is close to making the be then i would sign up for Pro because if i do well and make the Pro B i get 20 main and a chance to bump to the A. if i don't do so well and make the C i am only getting 5 min less run time than if i made the Sportsman A ( Pro C main is 10 and Sportsman A main is 15).
It might be rocky at first with the people figuring out where they should be but race directors can help get them placed if they need it.
People up here seem to think that the word "Sportsman" means beginner for some reason. maybe we would call is something else. like "open" or something like that.
as far as the "sandbagging" goes i think the solution is simple. Say the mains for Pro are 30 min A, 20min B, 10min C, and the rest are 7min. Then you set the sportsman A main at 15 Min. or a max of 20min. (equal to the Pro B) and a 10 min B.
lf you were close to making the B-mains last year then you should run Pro.
you could argue that the sportsman driver doesn't get equal length mains, but that doesn't matter because he is still getting more run time than he got before.
If i am a guy that is battling to make the C main, i would probably sign up for sportsman in hope of making the sportsman A.
If I'm a guy that is close to making the be then i would sign up for Pro because if i do well and make the Pro B i get 20 main and a chance to bump to the A. if i don't do so well and make the C i am only getting 5 min less run time than if i made the Sportsman A ( Pro C main is 10 and Sportsman A main is 15).
It might be rocky at first with the people figuring out where they should be but race directors can help get them placed if they need it.
People up here seem to think that the word "Sportsman" means beginner for some reason. maybe we would call is something else. like "open" or something like that.
12-14-2010, 09:18 AM
#32
Tech Addict
I would love to see a sportsman class in the buggy and truggy.
as far as the "sandbagging" goes i think the solution is simple. Say the mains for Pro are 30 min A, 20min B, 10min C, and the rest are 7min. Then you set the sportsman A main at 15 Min. or a max of 20min. (equal to the Pro B) and a 10 min B.
lf you were close to making the B-mains last year then you should run Pro.
you could argue that the sportsman driver doesn't get equal length mains, but that doesn't matter because he is still getting more run time than he got before.
If i am a guy that is battling to make the C main, i would probably sign up for sportsman in hope of making the sportsman A.
If I'm a guy that is close to making the be then i would sign up for Pro because if i do well and make the Pro B i get 20 main and a chance to bump to the A. if i don't do so well and make the C i am only getting 5 min less run time than if i made the Sportsman A ( Pro C main is 10 and Sportsman A main is 15).
It might be rocky at first with the people figuring out where they should be but race directors can help get them placed if they need it.
People up here seem to think that the word "Sportsman" means beginner for some reason. maybe we would call is something else. like "open" or something like that.
as far as the "sandbagging" goes i think the solution is simple. Say the mains for Pro are 30 min A, 20min B, 10min C, and the rest are 7min. Then you set the sportsman A main at 15 Min. or a max of 20min. (equal to the Pro B) and a 10 min B.
lf you were close to making the B-mains last year then you should run Pro.
you could argue that the sportsman driver doesn't get equal length mains, but that doesn't matter because he is still getting more run time than he got before.
If i am a guy that is battling to make the C main, i would probably sign up for sportsman in hope of making the sportsman A.
If I'm a guy that is close to making the be then i would sign up for Pro because if i do well and make the Pro B i get 20 main and a chance to bump to the A. if i don't do so well and make the C i am only getting 5 min less run time than if i made the Sportsman A ( Pro C main is 10 and Sportsman A main is 15).
It might be rocky at first with the people figuring out where they should be but race directors can help get them placed if they need it.
People up here seem to think that the word "Sportsman" means beginner for some reason. maybe we would call is something else. like "open" or something like that.
12-14-2010, 10:12 AM
#33
You could also compare times in qualifying and if someone who is signed up for Sportsman is running Pro class B main times or better then he or she would be bumped up to the Pro class right then. Even then I know people can sandbag qualifying and win but I think most of the people that run the NCT series know who should be in what class...
12-14-2010, 11:23 AM
#34
I could see adding a sportsman or whatever name you want to use class as being helpful to make the 1/10 electric morning and 1/8 nitro/electric afternoon format work better as well. By adding sportsman you break up the heats for the guys that run both truggy and buggy and give them more time to prepare as well. Just a thought if all the races were to use the same format that has worked well in the past.
12-14-2010, 12:03 PM
#35
everyone wants runtime, thats a given. But at what point is enough runtime? is a 10min main enough to get you to come out vs that 7 min main, ie 3 min is the only thing keeping you at home. Or is it the mentality of getting less than others, meaning that no matter how much runtime you get if it is half or less of what the PRO A guys get than its not worth making the trip. What about the B main Electric guys they only get a 6 min runtime and if no bumps they go home?
Tough call i think here, never going to make everyone happy.
Options seen
1) split the 1/8 buggy class to allow lower main drivers to drop to sportsman and get A mains and B mains. Drawbacks; now you are asking the tracks to come up with more trophys for additional classes, kicking drivers up based on wins and times WAIT i thought this was a SERIES how are you planning on transferring my points over into the pro division do i get a 101 there too? Seems like this idea is just a yay everyone is a winner. This class is for those that maybe are newcomers and dont plan on running the series or dont care where they are in the points and if they get kicked up to pro, losing the points wont hurt thier feelings then go for it
My thought (although I dont run nitro, just from the perspective of RD'ing the nitro program at a few events) Would be to make every lower main a 15 or 20 min main maximum... start the Main at a 10 minute minimum time and if there are 5 cars or less sorry you get a 10 minute Main, then an additional 2 min per vehicle ie 7 cars = 14 mins 8 cars = 16 min and 10-12 = 20 min runtimes. Will take the RD an extra couple of minutes saturday night to set it up that way but help the program times a bit. My idea is I like the split of the nitro and electric program into morning and evening so two possible fixes for just having a super long sunday evening of nitro. A) run any main D or lower on Saturday night after qualifying, Qual points come out right after round 3 of quals if you are in the D, E or F main get your rigs ready to go and run the mains that night, if you dont bump to the C your weekend is done. every track had lights right? I would rather run late Saturday than sunday B) run any main D or lower in between the A1, A2 and A3 rounds of electric, these mains would be cornered by Nitro guys only so the A main nitro guys need to Corner these 20 min heats not the electric heat.
Either way after the electric program is over there is 70 min of heats for Buggy and 70 for Truggy (2 X 20 and 1 X 30 each) so we are about 3 hours in the afternoon to get through the program roughly so it will be easy to know when you plan on getting out sunday.
The idea of the NCT is to create a series with some of the best outdoor offroad racing there is in the Northwest. If there are lower mains that is a good thing because it means the competition and entries are high, please lets not go to a series where before you even show up, you know you are in the A main.
Want more runtime... run more classes SC is super cheap
Tough call i think here, never going to make everyone happy.
Options seen
1) split the 1/8 buggy class to allow lower main drivers to drop to sportsman and get A mains and B mains. Drawbacks; now you are asking the tracks to come up with more trophys for additional classes, kicking drivers up based on wins and times WAIT i thought this was a SERIES how are you planning on transferring my points over into the pro division do i get a 101 there too? Seems like this idea is just a yay everyone is a winner. This class is for those that maybe are newcomers and dont plan on running the series or dont care where they are in the points and if they get kicked up to pro, losing the points wont hurt thier feelings then go for it
My thought (although I dont run nitro, just from the perspective of RD'ing the nitro program at a few events) Would be to make every lower main a 15 or 20 min main maximum... start the Main at a 10 minute minimum time and if there are 5 cars or less sorry you get a 10 minute Main, then an additional 2 min per vehicle ie 7 cars = 14 mins 8 cars = 16 min and 10-12 = 20 min runtimes. Will take the RD an extra couple of minutes saturday night to set it up that way but help the program times a bit. My idea is I like the split of the nitro and electric program into morning and evening so two possible fixes for just having a super long sunday evening of nitro. A) run any main D or lower on Saturday night after qualifying, Qual points come out right after round 3 of quals if you are in the D, E or F main get your rigs ready to go and run the mains that night, if you dont bump to the C your weekend is done. every track had lights right? I would rather run late Saturday than sunday B) run any main D or lower in between the A1, A2 and A3 rounds of electric, these mains would be cornered by Nitro guys only so the A main nitro guys need to Corner these 20 min heats not the electric heat.
Either way after the electric program is over there is 70 min of heats for Buggy and 70 for Truggy (2 X 20 and 1 X 30 each) so we are about 3 hours in the afternoon to get through the program roughly so it will be easy to know when you plan on getting out sunday.
The idea of the NCT is to create a series with some of the best outdoor offroad racing there is in the Northwest. If there are lower mains that is a good thing because it means the competition and entries are high, please lets not go to a series where before you even show up, you know you are in the A main.
Want more runtime... run more classes SC is super cheap
Last edited by i1justin; 12-14-2010 at 12:22 PM.
12-14-2010, 12:23 PM
#36
Here is my view from "Sportsman, Intermediate, Open"...
I am getting faster but not fast enough to try my hand with the pros. In fact racing with them slows me down. I try tend to alter my lines to let the fast guys get through.
The NCT is a neat series, but I have no intension of going to enough races to place in the series. I have no hope of placing anywhere worth anything at the end. BUT, if there was a class that I could be competitive in, it could change my outlook.
Racing is expensive for all of us. Sponsorships are hard to find. I would rather be 3rd in the open class for the series, than 123rd.
In most forms of racing there is a process for advancement. In our series, guys like us swim with sharks.
E
PS: If anyone wants to sponsor me, the answer is yes
PSS: I vote 3 10 min Amains for 1/8e Buggy
I am getting faster but not fast enough to try my hand with the pros. In fact racing with them slows me down. I try tend to alter my lines to let the fast guys get through.
The NCT is a neat series, but I have no intension of going to enough races to place in the series. I have no hope of placing anywhere worth anything at the end. BUT, if there was a class that I could be competitive in, it could change my outlook.
Racing is expensive for all of us. Sponsorships are hard to find. I would rather be 3rd in the open class for the series, than 123rd.
In most forms of racing there is a process for advancement. In our series, guys like us swim with sharks.
E
PS: If anyone wants to sponsor me, the answer is yes
PSS: I vote 3 10 min Amains for 1/8e Buggy
12-14-2010, 12:30 PM
#37
Oh ya,
Top guys can placed in the program (placed by points, we could place by previous accomplishments and or results to start).
Others have to qualify for the show.
The rest are in the open class.
Possibly the top couple of the Open Amain bump to pro B-C main. To gain experience. They achieve a certain number of point, then to the pros they go!
E
Top guys can placed in the program (placed by points, we could place by previous accomplishments and or results to start).
Others have to qualify for the show.
The rest are in the open class.
Possibly the top couple of the Open Amain bump to pro B-C main. To gain experience. They achieve a certain number of point, then to the pros they go!
E
12-14-2010, 01:10 PM
#38
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the other issue with the "sportsman" idea is car count. i assume the sportsman only applies to 1/8th scale gas buggy?? heres why......what was the average car count for truggy last year??? i would guess mid 20's right.. so if there is only 25 truggies at a race, you want to split them up into 2 divisions? so we have say 10 or so pro drivers and 10 or so sportsman, we would have 4 or 5 car B mains. is that what everyone wants for a series?? why would i drive all the way to Lewiston or Spokane for a 15 car class? i am more willing to travel if i know there is going to be a big class.....Buggy is different as thier car count is usually high 30's, low 40's for car count and if you split them you will still have a full B main at least in both maybe.
I can see this being a issue if we were like some other series where the car counts are in the 60's or 70's for each class, but i just dont see splitting up a 25 car field just so everyone can say they made the A main.....
I can see this being a issue if we were like some other series where the car counts are in the 60's or 70's for each class, but i just dont see splitting up a 25 car field just so everyone can say they made the A main.....
12-14-2010, 03:33 PM
#39
the other issue with the "sportsman" idea is car count. i assume the sportsman only applies to 1/8th scale gas buggy?? heres why......what was the average car count for truggy last year??? i would guess mid 20's right.. so if there is only 25 truggies at a race, you want to split them up into 2 divisions? so we have say 10 or so pro drivers and 10 or so sportsman, we would have 4 or 5 car B mains. is that what everyone wants for a series?? why would i drive all the way to Lewiston or Spokane for a 15 car class? i am more willing to travel if i know there is going to be a big class.....Buggy is different as thier car count is usually high 30's, low 40's for car count and if you split them you will still have a full B main at least in both maybe.
I can see this being a issue if we were like some other series where the car counts are in the 60's or 70's for each class, but i just dont see splitting up a 25 car field just so everyone can say they made the A main.....
I can see this being a issue if we were like some other series where the car counts are in the 60's or 70's for each class, but i just dont see splitting up a 25 car field just so everyone can say they made the A main.....
Not that we get these size turnouts but
@a52
12 car Amain is the pro A
12 car Bmain is the sportsman A
12 car Cmain is the sportsman B
12 car Lowermains are sportsman C
OR
12 car Amain is the pros A
12 car Bmain is the pros B
12 car Cmain is the sportsman A
12 car Lowermains are sportsman B
12 car Lowermains are sportsman C
or other variations if you see my drift.
Being a RD myself, adding sportsman is adding another class making the day longer.
Just thought Id chime in since I can relate. I dropped our sportsman class at a52.
Last edited by Leopard1; 12-14-2010 at 03:53 PM.
12-14-2010, 05:59 PM
#40
The sportsman or intermediate class was for Buggy only as i stated before truggy does not have the numbers to split up
We would not be adding a bunch of time or trophies as the intermediate 1/8th would take the place of gas truck
As another poster had stated earlier having that chance to work and make the A in an intermediate class might bring them out to the race.My idea was to encourage these types of racers to show up feeling they have a chance to make a longer main gain experience and be confident to advance to the pro class
As far as sandbagging goes I was thinking this might be self policed most know about where thier level as a racer is.
Also and most important we need three 20 to 30 minute a-mains so the 1/8th electric guys will have something to Marshall after every run!
We would not be adding a bunch of time or trophies as the intermediate 1/8th would take the place of gas truck
As another poster had stated earlier having that chance to work and make the A in an intermediate class might bring them out to the race.My idea was to encourage these types of racers to show up feeling they have a chance to make a longer main gain experience and be confident to advance to the pro class
As far as sandbagging goes I was thinking this might be self policed most know about where thier level as a racer is.
Also and most important we need three 20 to 30 minute a-mains so the 1/8th electric guys will have something to Marshall after every run!
12-14-2010, 06:17 PM
#41
I just peaked at the Hank results and there was down to a "G" main. I do not know how many turned out for the other events.
I will race the local NCT event no mater what. But it would be nice to race for an achievable goal.
I just wanted to add my perspective to the discussion.
Thats would be fine. I like the idea. Would or should it be possible to break out "Sportsman Points" and "Pro Points".
E
I will race the local NCT event no mater what. But it would be nice to race for an achievable goal.
I just wanted to add my perspective to the discussion.
Right on
Not that we get these size turnouts but
@a52
12 car Amain is the pro A
12 car Bmain is the sportsman A
12 car Cmain is the sportsman B
12 car Lowermains are sportsman C
OR
12 car Amain is the pros A
12 car Bmain is the pros B
12 car Cmain is the sportsman A
12 car Lowermains are sportsman B
12 car Lowermains are sportsman C
or other variations if you see my drift.
Being a RD myself, adding sportsman is adding another class making the day longer.
Just thought Id chime in since I can relate. I dropped our sportsman class at a52.
Not that we get these size turnouts but
@a52
12 car Amain is the pro A
12 car Bmain is the sportsman A
12 car Cmain is the sportsman B
12 car Lowermains are sportsman C
OR
12 car Amain is the pros A
12 car Bmain is the pros B
12 car Cmain is the sportsman A
12 car Lowermains are sportsman B
12 car Lowermains are sportsman C
or other variations if you see my drift.
Being a RD myself, adding sportsman is adding another class making the day longer.
Just thought Id chime in since I can relate. I dropped our sportsman class at a52.
E
12-14-2010, 08:19 PM
#42
I agree with Justin.
No offense to anyone...especially E (love that guy!)
This is racing! I dont know why anyone would want to show up and be handed an "A Main".....or even a B Main in some cases. That is half the reason I dont race much electric anymore.
I have raced now for 7 or 8 years now. Most of my friends have my back when I say I was horrible at racing.....it was painful to watch me drive. But I have stuck with it and have improved. The last couple years I have seen the work in the trenches payoff. Still not very fast, but way faster then I used to be and hopefully not too painful to watch.
I am pretty sure I would have quit by now if there wasn't that desire to improve and try to make the show and race with my local RC Heroes!!!
Im just saying.......
No offense to anyone...especially E (love that guy!)
This is racing! I dont know why anyone would want to show up and be handed an "A Main".....or even a B Main in some cases. That is half the reason I dont race much electric anymore.
I have raced now for 7 or 8 years now. Most of my friends have my back when I say I was horrible at racing.....it was painful to watch me drive. But I have stuck with it and have improved. The last couple years I have seen the work in the trenches payoff. Still not very fast, but way faster then I used to be and hopefully not too painful to watch.
I am pretty sure I would have quit by now if there wasn't that desire to improve and try to make the show and race with my local RC Heroes!!!
Im just saying.......
12-14-2010, 08:58 PM
#43
It's all good Snide. If it wasn't for you I'd probably be slamming a monster truck against a curb.
(Again, speaking for myself concerning 1/8 scale buggy class)
Truth is that without enough people signing up, I know it is impossible to separate classes. But I honestly think that more people would travel to races if there was hope for a respectable overall finish.
That being said.... I am hoping to make 3-4 of the NCT events this year.
E
(Again, speaking for myself concerning 1/8 scale buggy class)
Truth is that without enough people signing up, I know it is impossible to separate classes. But I honestly think that more people would travel to races if there was hope for a respectable overall finish.
That being said.... I am hoping to make 3-4 of the NCT events this year.
E
12-15-2010, 05:20 PM
#44
Thats would be fine. I like the idea. Would or should it be possible to break out "Sportsman Points" and "Pro Points".
E.
E.
I was trying to say where ever you qualified is your Amain to try to place in.
If your in the Cmain, your right where you should be with the other Cmainers, so all you guys in the Cmain, its really all your Amain, your trying to win your final main were you qualified, qualifying determined the sportsman drivers mains so to speak. If I qualed for the f main, I personaly would look at that as my Amain, Im with other sportsman level drivers that day, no question, no sand baggin.
I hope that makes sense
12-15-2010, 07:06 PM
#45
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No on break out "Sportsman Points" and "Pro Points".
I was trying to say where ever you qualified is your Amain to try to place in.
If your in the Cmain, your right where you should be with the other Cmainers, so all you guys in the Cmain, its really all your Amain, your trying to win your final main were you qualified, qualifying determined the sportsman drivers mains so to speak. If I qualed for the f main, I personaly would look at that as my Amain, Im with other sportsman level drivers that day, no question, no sand baggin.
I hope that makes sense
I was trying to say where ever you qualified is your Amain to try to place in.
If your in the Cmain, your right where you should be with the other Cmainers, so all you guys in the Cmain, its really all your Amain, your trying to win your final main were you qualified, qualifying determined the sportsman drivers mains so to speak. If I qualed for the f main, I personaly would look at that as my Amain, Im with other sportsman level drivers that day, no question, no sand baggin.
I hope that makes sense