ect 2010 - 11
08-08-2010, 10:50 AM
#31
Tech Master
08-08-2010, 12:31 PM
#32
Looks like a lot of idea's.
I have not tried to run at zero advance. I would think a 17.5 would not make some of the jumps that we had last year at zero advance.
Maybe it would be easier to see what class people plan on running this year.
If we did not have pro-stock would those people just run Mod or stock anyway or are they out all together if that class is not run. With bump ups in the lower main I think everyone has some kind of chance to make the show in a class.
Two day events were fun but also spendy to do and the second event at TRCR round was not a big turn out.
I have not tried to run at zero advance. I would think a 17.5 would not make some of the jumps that we had last year at zero advance.
Maybe it would be easier to see what class people plan on running this year.
If we did not have pro-stock would those people just run Mod or stock anyway or are they out all together if that class is not run. With bump ups in the lower main I think everyone has some kind of chance to make the show in a class.
Two day events were fun but also spendy to do and the second event at TRCR round was not a big turn out.
08-08-2010, 03:12 PM
#33
DEREKS POST SEEMS TO SUM UP ALL OF THE QUESTIONS, COMENTS AND EVENTS THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO. SO LET ME START OFF BY DISCUSSING SOME OF THE COMENTS THAT I HAVE HEARD/SEEN/READ.
1- DYNAMIC TIMING - HMMM TECHNOLOGY IS A BUMMER ISN'T IT. THIS IS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE FOR YEARS TO COME. I REMEMBER WHEN GEORGE SAID THAT WHEN BRUSHLESS COMES OUT THAT THE WORLD OF R/C WOULD BE MORE FAIR AND LESS OF A MOTOR BATTERY WAR. TO PUT INTO PERSPECTIVE HOW DIFERENT TECHNOLOGY HAS BECOME. I DROVE THE SUPER STOCK TRUCK THAT WON 2 SEASONS AGO (STEVE ELLSWORTH) AND GOT PASSED... LET ME REPEAT PASSED ON THE STRAIGHT AWAY BY A 17.5 WITH
TIMING ADVANCE. I MAY NEED TO DO SOME RESEARCH BUT I AM SEEING THAT TEKIN IS ONE OF THE MOST ADJUSTABLE IN THIS RELM BUT NOT THE ONLY SPEEDO THAT HAS IT. QUSTIONS I HAVE ARE... HOW DO WE POLICE THE TIMING? THERE IS NO LOCKING RING BECAUSE THE MOTOR DOESN'T MAKE THE POWER. WHAT IS GOING TO KEEP A DRIVER FROM HAVING IT AND THEN JUST NOT PULLING FULL THROTTLE EXEPT TO GET OVER THAT HARD TO MAKE JUMP. I AM REALLY PUTING THOUGHT INTO THIS. 13.5'S ARE TOO FAST AND A 17.5 IS A HAR SLOWER THEN BRUSHED... SO IF WE CAN REGULATE THE SPEEDOS TO NOT HAVE ADJUSTABLE TIMNG THEN THAT OF COURSE WOULD BE THE WAY TO GO!!!!
SUPER STOCK: ALLWAYS THE MOST CRITCAL CLASS AND ALLWAYS THE BIGGEST. THE QUESTION IS ALLWAYS WHY HAVE IT. THE RACERS WILL JUST RUN MOD... WELL I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THAT IS FAR FROM TRUE. MOST OF THE RACERS IN THE PAST STEPPED BACK TO STOCK. GEORGE HIT IT RIGHT ON THE HEAD WHEN HE SAID THAT THE SS CLASSES MAKE THE ECT MONEY... MONEY TO PAY FOR THE TROPHIES AND TO BE ABLE TO PAY TO PUT THE RACES ON. WHICH BY THE WAY ARE ALSO VERY PROFITABLE FOR THE TRACKS! SO THE ONLY REAL QUESTION IS WHAT MOTOR?
SS4WD - 10.5
SST - 13.5
SSB - 13.5
IS THIS THE FORMAT THAT IS THE BEST? HMMM IT MAY BE IT MAY NOT BE.
MY FAVORITE CLASS TO DRIVE AND RACE IS SS4WD WITH A 10.5. BUT I FEEL AS DO MANY MORE THAT THE CLASS HAS GOTTEN TOO FAST OR CLOSE TO MOD WITH THE 10.5.
CLASSES BASED ON ABILITY: UMMM NO... THIS IS NO WAY TO MANAGE ANYTHING. TO RUN A FAIR SERIES THE RULES HAVE TO BE ABOUT THE CAR AND NOT THE ABILITY THAT IS SUBJECTIVELY DECIDED BY THE POWERS AT BE.
SCHEDULE: 6 RACES THIS YEAR - NOT 8
FORMAT: I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS
FRIDAY: OPEN PRACTICE AND NO CLUB RACE
SATURDAY:
STOCK TRUCK
SUPER STOCK TRUCK
MODIFIED TRUCK
STOCK SHORT COURCE
MODIFIED SHORT COURSE
MASTERS TRUCK
1/8TH SCALE
SUNDAY
STOCK 2WD
SUPER STOCK 2WD
MODIFIED 2WD
SUPER STOCK 4WD
MODIFIED 4WD
THAT WAY 1 CHASSIS CAN BE RAN IN TWO CLASSES AND STILL HAVE IT BE A ONE DAY EVENT. IF YOU CHOOSE THE RACE THE WEEKEND YOU CAN FOCUS ON ONE TYPE ( TRUCK OR BUGGY) EACH DAY! KIND OF A MINI WORLDS FORMAT. OF COURSE OPEN PRACTICE EACH MORNING. MAKE TWO SHORT RACES VERSUS 1 BIG RACE DAY.
1- DYNAMIC TIMING - HMMM TECHNOLOGY IS A BUMMER ISN'T IT. THIS IS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE FOR YEARS TO COME. I REMEMBER WHEN GEORGE SAID THAT WHEN BRUSHLESS COMES OUT THAT THE WORLD OF R/C WOULD BE MORE FAIR AND LESS OF A MOTOR BATTERY WAR. TO PUT INTO PERSPECTIVE HOW DIFERENT TECHNOLOGY HAS BECOME. I DROVE THE SUPER STOCK TRUCK THAT WON 2 SEASONS AGO (STEVE ELLSWORTH) AND GOT PASSED... LET ME REPEAT PASSED ON THE STRAIGHT AWAY BY A 17.5 WITH
TIMING ADVANCE. I MAY NEED TO DO SOME RESEARCH BUT I AM SEEING THAT TEKIN IS ONE OF THE MOST ADJUSTABLE IN THIS RELM BUT NOT THE ONLY SPEEDO THAT HAS IT. QUSTIONS I HAVE ARE... HOW DO WE POLICE THE TIMING? THERE IS NO LOCKING RING BECAUSE THE MOTOR DOESN'T MAKE THE POWER. WHAT IS GOING TO KEEP A DRIVER FROM HAVING IT AND THEN JUST NOT PULLING FULL THROTTLE EXEPT TO GET OVER THAT HARD TO MAKE JUMP. I AM REALLY PUTING THOUGHT INTO THIS. 13.5'S ARE TOO FAST AND A 17.5 IS A HAR SLOWER THEN BRUSHED... SO IF WE CAN REGULATE THE SPEEDOS TO NOT HAVE ADJUSTABLE TIMNG THEN THAT OF COURSE WOULD BE THE WAY TO GO!!!!
SUPER STOCK: ALLWAYS THE MOST CRITCAL CLASS AND ALLWAYS THE BIGGEST. THE QUESTION IS ALLWAYS WHY HAVE IT. THE RACERS WILL JUST RUN MOD... WELL I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THAT IS FAR FROM TRUE. MOST OF THE RACERS IN THE PAST STEPPED BACK TO STOCK. GEORGE HIT IT RIGHT ON THE HEAD WHEN HE SAID THAT THE SS CLASSES MAKE THE ECT MONEY... MONEY TO PAY FOR THE TROPHIES AND TO BE ABLE TO PAY TO PUT THE RACES ON. WHICH BY THE WAY ARE ALSO VERY PROFITABLE FOR THE TRACKS! SO THE ONLY REAL QUESTION IS WHAT MOTOR?
SS4WD - 10.5
SST - 13.5
SSB - 13.5
IS THIS THE FORMAT THAT IS THE BEST? HMMM IT MAY BE IT MAY NOT BE.
MY FAVORITE CLASS TO DRIVE AND RACE IS SS4WD WITH A 10.5. BUT I FEEL AS DO MANY MORE THAT THE CLASS HAS GOTTEN TOO FAST OR CLOSE TO MOD WITH THE 10.5.
CLASSES BASED ON ABILITY: UMMM NO... THIS IS NO WAY TO MANAGE ANYTHING. TO RUN A FAIR SERIES THE RULES HAVE TO BE ABOUT THE CAR AND NOT THE ABILITY THAT IS SUBJECTIVELY DECIDED BY THE POWERS AT BE.
SCHEDULE: 6 RACES THIS YEAR - NOT 8
FORMAT: I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS
FRIDAY: OPEN PRACTICE AND NO CLUB RACE
SATURDAY:
STOCK TRUCK
SUPER STOCK TRUCK
MODIFIED TRUCK
STOCK SHORT COURCE
MODIFIED SHORT COURSE
MASTERS TRUCK
1/8TH SCALE
SUNDAY
STOCK 2WD
SUPER STOCK 2WD
MODIFIED 2WD
SUPER STOCK 4WD
MODIFIED 4WD
THAT WAY 1 CHASSIS CAN BE RAN IN TWO CLASSES AND STILL HAVE IT BE A ONE DAY EVENT. IF YOU CHOOSE THE RACE THE WEEKEND YOU CAN FOCUS ON ONE TYPE ( TRUCK OR BUGGY) EACH DAY! KIND OF A MINI WORLDS FORMAT. OF COURSE OPEN PRACTICE EACH MORNING. MAKE TWO SHORT RACES VERSUS 1 BIG RACE DAY.
There are so many different ways you can divide the classes for these races. It seems to me that with the current setup the goal is to give everyone a good chance to make the A main. There are a lot of classes so that there are only 10-25 people per class so everyone has a reasonable chance to get in the top 10. With the 1 day races if you don't make the A you only get two 5 minute quals and a 6 minute main, so I think a lot of people feel that if they don't make the A they don't really get their “money's worth” for the time and effort invested. With the 2 day races this is less of an issue because there are 4 rounds of quals and a main so you get 5 races even if you don't make the A.
If you want to continue with this system of having a lot of classes to keep the classes small, I think it would be so much better to focus on skill level instead of motor strength. Realistically with the current speedos a 13.5 is pretty close to mod, and a 10.5 is a mod motor. I don't really see how making a class a 10.5 or 13.5 class makes much of a difference, other than making people work a lot harder (and spend more money) to make a 13.5 go fast. Plus it brings the possibility of cheating/bending the rules into play, which is always good for some drama.
If you want to keep things mostly the same I would make the classes like this for buggy and truck
Novice/sportsman – 17.5 with timing or 13.5 without timing, spec tire
Intermediate – any motor, spec tire
Expert/Pro – any motor, any tire.
Another nice thing about this is that people who are on the borderline of intermediate and expert can run both classes if they want without difficulty. If you stick with super stock at 13.5, it might make people a bit shy about racing in mod with the same car. This might lower your entries in both super stock and mod because people will have to choose 1 or the other instead of doing both.
If you are going to all 2 day races (as has been rumoured) and you really want to change things up I would get rid of several of the classes to make the classes bigger. Again I would make it skill based and not motor based.
novice/sportsman stadium truck – spec tire
novice/sportsman short course – spec tire
sportsman/intermediate buggy – spec tire
expert/pro buggy – open tire, open motor
intermediate/expert/pro short course – open tire, open motor
intermediate/expert/pro 4wd buggy – open tire, open motor
That's down to 6 classes
. It would really mean something to make the A. If there were 2 day races with 4 rounds of quals and then mains, I think people would still be willing to race in classes even if they didn't have a great chance of making the A. But by combining the classes you have a better chance of people who are close in skill level racing in the same class. I know last year there were several times where the bottom guys in mod, middle guys in super stock, and top guys in stock buggy were all running around the same pace. That seems silly to me and gets in the way of good competition.
For those of you that want a 13.5 class, what makes that a better option than an open motor/spec tire class? If the 13.5 cars can pull wheelies there is not going to be a lot of difference in lap times or wear and tear.
Regardless of what the rules are I will be attending a lot of the races this year. Looking forward to some good battles!
If you want to continue with this system of having a lot of classes to keep the classes small, I think it would be so much better to focus on skill level instead of motor strength. Realistically with the current speedos a 13.5 is pretty close to mod, and a 10.5 is a mod motor. I don't really see how making a class a 10.5 or 13.5 class makes much of a difference, other than making people work a lot harder (and spend more money) to make a 13.5 go fast. Plus it brings the possibility of cheating/bending the rules into play, which is always good for some drama.
If you want to keep things mostly the same I would make the classes like this for buggy and truck
Novice/sportsman – 17.5 with timing or 13.5 without timing, spec tire
Intermediate – any motor, spec tire
Expert/Pro – any motor, any tire.
Another nice thing about this is that people who are on the borderline of intermediate and expert can run both classes if they want without difficulty. If you stick with super stock at 13.5, it might make people a bit shy about racing in mod with the same car. This might lower your entries in both super stock and mod because people will have to choose 1 or the other instead of doing both.
If you are going to all 2 day races (as has been rumoured) and you really want to change things up I would get rid of several of the classes to make the classes bigger. Again I would make it skill based and not motor based.
novice/sportsman stadium truck – spec tire
novice/sportsman short course – spec tire
sportsman/intermediate buggy – spec tire
expert/pro buggy – open tire, open motor
intermediate/expert/pro short course – open tire, open motor
intermediate/expert/pro 4wd buggy – open tire, open motor
That's down to 6 classes
. It would really mean something to make the A. If there were 2 day races with 4 rounds of quals and then mains, I think people would still be willing to race in classes even if they didn't have a great chance of making the A. But by combining the classes you have a better chance of people who are close in skill level racing in the same class. I know last year there were several times where the bottom guys in mod, middle guys in super stock, and top guys in stock buggy were all running around the same pace. That seems silly to me and gets in the way of good competition.For those of you that want a 13.5 class, what makes that a better option than an open motor/spec tire class? If the 13.5 cars can pull wheelies there is not going to be a lot of difference in lap times or wear and tear.
Regardless of what the rules are I will be attending a lot of the races this year. Looking forward to some good battles!
08-08-2010, 03:14 PM
#34
DAY 2 HAD THE BEST RACING THOUGH!!! IT WAS AWESOME!
Looks like a lot of idea's.
I have not tried to run at zero advance. I would think a 17.5 would not make some of the jumps that we had last year at zero advance.
Maybe it would be easier to see what class people plan on running this year.
If we did not have pro-stock would those people just run Mod or stock anyway or are they out all together if that class is not run. With bump ups in the lower main I think everyone has some kind of chance to make the show in a class.
Two day events were fun but also spendy to do and the second event at TRCR round was not a big turn out.
I have not tried to run at zero advance. I would think a 17.5 would not make some of the jumps that we had last year at zero advance.
Maybe it would be easier to see what class people plan on running this year.
If we did not have pro-stock would those people just run Mod or stock anyway or are they out all together if that class is not run. With bump ups in the lower main I think everyone has some kind of chance to make the show in a class.
Two day events were fun but also spendy to do and the second event at TRCR round was not a big turn out.
08-08-2010, 04:33 PM
#35
Tech Elite
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cool, looks good. whats the motor for Masters??
looks like my 2wd buggy just got real expensive, dont know if its in the budget to spend 100 bucks on a hotel just to run my buggy on sunday, but i will run 2 or 3 classes on saturday.
keep up the good work Brian
looks like my 2wd buggy just got real expensive, dont know if its in the budget to spend 100 bucks on a hotel just to run my buggy on sunday, but i will run 2 or 3 classes on saturday.
keep up the good work Brian
08-08-2010, 04:36 PM
#36
Tech Elite
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and while im thinking about it, how come 4wd SS gets to keep the 10.5 but buggy and truck have to go back to 13.5??? i dont have a problem with 13.5 but shouldnt all the SS be the same motor??
08-08-2010, 05:03 PM
#37
FRIDAY: OPEN PRACTICE AND NO CLUB RACE
SATURDAY:
STOCK TRUCK
SUPER STOCK TRUCK
MODIFIED TRUCK
STOCK SHORT COURCE
MODIFIED SHORT COURSE
MASTERS TRUCK
1/8TH SCALE
SUNDAY
STOCK 2WD
SUPER STOCK 2WD
MODIFIED 2WD
SUPER STOCK 4WD
MODIFIED 4WD
THAT WAY 1 CHASSIS CAN BE RAN IN TWO CLASSES AND STILL HAVE IT BE A ONE DAY EVENT. IF YOU CHOOSE THE RACE THE WEEKEND YOU CAN FOCUS ON ONE TYPE ( TRUCK OR BUGGY) EACH DAY! KIND OF A MINI WORLDS FORMAT. OF COURSE OPEN PRACTICE EACH MORNING. MAKE TWO SHORT RACES VERSUS 1 BIG RACE DAY.
SATURDAY:
STOCK TRUCK
SUPER STOCK TRUCK
MODIFIED TRUCK
STOCK SHORT COURCE
MODIFIED SHORT COURSE
MASTERS TRUCK
1/8TH SCALE
SUNDAY
STOCK 2WD
SUPER STOCK 2WD
MODIFIED 2WD
SUPER STOCK 4WD
MODIFIED 4WD
THAT WAY 1 CHASSIS CAN BE RAN IN TWO CLASSES AND STILL HAVE IT BE A ONE DAY EVENT. IF YOU CHOOSE THE RACE THE WEEKEND YOU CAN FOCUS ON ONE TYPE ( TRUCK OR BUGGY) EACH DAY! KIND OF A MINI WORLDS FORMAT. OF COURSE OPEN PRACTICE EACH MORNING. MAKE TWO SHORT RACES VERSUS 1 BIG RACE DAY.
YES!!!!!! I Likey
08-08-2010, 05:13 PM
#38
1- DYNAMIC TIMING - HMMM TECHNOLOGY IS A BUMMER ISN'T IT. THIS IS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE FOR YEARS TO COME. I REMEMBER WHEN GEORGE SAID THAT WHEN BRUSHLESS COMES OUT THAT THE WORLD OF R/C WOULD BE MORE FAIR AND LESS OF A MOTOR BATTERY WAR. TO PUT INTO PERSPECTIVE HOW DIFERENT TECHNOLOGY HAS BECOME. I DROVE THE SUPER STOCK TRUCK THAT WON 2 SEASONS AGO (STEVE ELLSWORTH) AND GOT PASSED... LET ME REPEAT PASSED ON THE STRAIGHT AWAY BY A 17.5 WITH
TIMING ADVANCE. I MAY NEED TO DO SOME RESEARCH BUT I AM SEEING THAT TEKIN IS ONE OF THE MOST ADJUSTABLE IN THIS RELM BUT NOT THE ONLY SPEEDO THAT HAS IT. QUSTIONS I HAVE ARE... HOW DO WE POLICE THE TIMING? THERE IS NO LOCKING RING BECAUSE THE MOTOR DOESN'T MAKE THE POWER. WHAT IS GOING TO KEEP A DRIVER FROM HAVING IT AND THEN JUST NOT PULLING FULL THROTTLE EXEPT TO GET OVER THAT HARD TO MAKE JUMP. I AM REALLY PUTING THOUGHT INTO THIS. 13.5'S ARE TOO FAST AND A 17.5 IS A HAR SLOWER THEN BRUSHED... SO IF WE CAN REGULATE THE SPEEDOS TO NOT HAVE ADJUSTABLE TIMNG THEN THAT OF COURSE WOULD BE THE WAY TO GO!!!!
.
TIMING ADVANCE. I MAY NEED TO DO SOME RESEARCH BUT I AM SEEING THAT TEKIN IS ONE OF THE MOST ADJUSTABLE IN THIS RELM BUT NOT THE ONLY SPEEDO THAT HAS IT. QUSTIONS I HAVE ARE... HOW DO WE POLICE THE TIMING? THERE IS NO LOCKING RING BECAUSE THE MOTOR DOESN'T MAKE THE POWER. WHAT IS GOING TO KEEP A DRIVER FROM HAVING IT AND THEN JUST NOT PULLING FULL THROTTLE EXEPT TO GET OVER THAT HARD TO MAKE JUMP. I AM REALLY PUTING THOUGHT INTO THIS. 13.5'S ARE TOO FAST AND A 17.5 IS A HAR SLOWER THEN BRUSHED... SO IF WE CAN REGULATE THE SPEEDOS TO NOT HAVE ADJUSTABLE TIMNG THEN THAT OF COURSE WOULD BE THE WAY TO GO!!!!
.
08-08-2010, 06:11 PM
#39
I like that! Run trucks one day and buggy the next. I plan on running SC stock and mod but I like the idea of masters too. That will keep Daniel and Andy from winning every class I enter this year. 
Are we going to still do spec tires in the stock class. I assume that would put the stock SC trucks on Panther clays too.
Does the Masters class age starts a year older than Bridgewater is every year.
Are we going to still do spec tires in the stock class. I assume that would put the stock SC trucks on Panther clays too.
Does the Masters class age starts a year older than Bridgewater is every year.
08-08-2010, 06:25 PM
#40
LRP has a speedo coming out called ZERO(No Dynamic timing) for True stock racing...with other manufactures to follow. Especially if ROAR bans timing in stock classes(talk is they are). Plus the old GTBs and LRP's we all replaced with our adv timing speedos will be good again!
08-08-2010, 06:51 PM
#41
For me the 13.5 vs 10.5 comes down to a very simple question. Making a 13.5 go fast requires 2 things
1. Money/sponsorship to buy the good electronics
2. Skills to use that equipment to make your car go fast.
DO YOU WANT THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THOSE 2 THINGS TO HAVE A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE OVER THOSE WHO DON'T?
If your answer is yes, you should choose 13.5
If your answer is no, you should choose 10.5 or open motor
Same thing with spec tire vs open tire. It takes 2 things to use an open tire to your advantage
1. money/sponsorship to buy tires
2. knowledge and skills to know which tire to use in what conditions
DO YOU WANT PEOPLE WHO HAVE THESE 2 THINGS TO HAVE A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE?
If your answer is yes, then make it open tire
If your answer is no, then make it spec tire.
My opinion is that the answer to both questions in caps is NO, so I would favor a 10.5 or open motor and a spec tire. However, I could see how someone else could answer yes to one or both questions, saying that motor tuning and tire selection are skills and being good at them should give you an advantage. To me that's the decision you (Brian) have to make.
Geoge's statement about lipo/brushless making racing more fair was 100% correct regarding MOD. I can get an old LRP sphere, old novak 8.5 or 7.5, and a lipo from hong kong for very little money and have a car that is just as fast as Ryan Cavalieri's (in the straight anyways)
1. Money/sponsorship to buy the good electronics
2. Skills to use that equipment to make your car go fast.
DO YOU WANT THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THOSE 2 THINGS TO HAVE A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE OVER THOSE WHO DON'T?
If your answer is yes, you should choose 13.5
If your answer is no, you should choose 10.5 or open motor
Same thing with spec tire vs open tire. It takes 2 things to use an open tire to your advantage
1. money/sponsorship to buy tires
2. knowledge and skills to know which tire to use in what conditions
DO YOU WANT PEOPLE WHO HAVE THESE 2 THINGS TO HAVE A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE?
If your answer is yes, then make it open tire
If your answer is no, then make it spec tire.
My opinion is that the answer to both questions in caps is NO, so I would favor a 10.5 or open motor and a spec tire. However, I could see how someone else could answer yes to one or both questions, saying that motor tuning and tire selection are skills and being good at them should give you an advantage. To me that's the decision you (Brian) have to make.
Geoge's statement about lipo/brushless making racing more fair was 100% correct regarding MOD. I can get an old LRP sphere, old novak 8.5 or 7.5, and a lipo from hong kong for very little money and have a car that is just as fast as Ryan Cavalieri's (in the straight anyways)
08-08-2010, 07:31 PM
#42
+1 for Rasheed
What is the age needed for Masters
?
What is the age needed for Masters
?
08-08-2010, 07:44 PM
#43
No 4wd Short Course!??
