Brushless vs Brushed stock class racing
09-05-2006, 11:09 AM
#61
Why can't NOVAK Make a brushless design that follows the current rules?
09-05-2006, 11:27 AM
#63
The BL esc has a chip in it right? If so, then it will be reprogramable just like the chips in full size cars. there are lots of chips and even programable on the fly units available on the market now.
It's not that difficult to tech a stock brushed motor, but how do you tech a esc for a BL ? Put it on a track laptop? the amount of time it would take to run a stock race would be days on end, you would have to tech before and after the race, then how would you detect a thermal sensor that would change the programing when it reaches a certain temp, then resets itself when the switch is turned off?
I think that is why BL is going to stay in Mod for quite a while, unless they get there own class for stock or even 19t. Not something I plan on doing.
Fred
It's not that difficult to tech a stock brushed motor, but how do you tech a esc for a BL ? Put it on a track laptop? the amount of time it would take to run a stock race would be days on end, you would have to tech before and after the race, then how would you detect a thermal sensor that would change the programing when it reaches a certain temp, then resets itself when the switch is turned off?
I think that is why BL is going to stay in Mod for quite a while, unless they get there own class for stock or even 19t. Not something I plan on doing.
Fred
09-05-2006, 11:30 AM
#64
brushless stock
I think the problem with stock in general is that is was suppose to limit HP and any time you try and limit it people find ways of getting around those limits. It will always be about having the lastest and greatest be it brush or brushless. If they could design a motor/esc package that would be identical in every way then the manufaturers could not claim their stuff is better than anyone elses.
Maybe we should keep brushless a SPEC(novak) class and not a stock class. The only advancement then would be for ease of use and dependablity. Of course what fun what that be.
Maybe we should keep brushless a SPEC(novak) class and not a stock class. The only advancement then would be for ease of use and dependablity. Of course what fun what that be.
09-05-2006, 11:34 AM
#65
Tater chips
Originally Posted by C_O_jones
The BL esc has a chip in it right? If so, then it will be reprogramable just like the chips in full size cars. there are lots of chips and even programable on the fly units available on the market now.
It's not that difficult to tech a stock brushed motor, but how do you tech a esc for a BL ? Put it on a track laptop? the amount of time it would take to run a stock race would be days on end, you would have to tech before and after the race, then how would you detect a thermal sensor that would change the programing when it reaches a certain temp, then resets itself when the switch is turned off?
I think that is why BL is going to stay in Mod for quite a while, unless they get there own class for stock or even 19t. Not something I plan on doing.
Fred
It's not that difficult to tech a stock brushed motor, but how do you tech a esc for a BL ? Put it on a track laptop? the amount of time it would take to run a stock race would be days on end, you would have to tech before and after the race, then how would you detect a thermal sensor that would change the programing when it reaches a certain temp, then resets itself when the switch is turned off?
I think that is why BL is going to stay in Mod for quite a while, unless they get there own class for stock or even 19t. Not something I plan on doing.
Fred
Yeah I got a new chip for my Mazda protoge. I now get 400HP out of my stock motor on fry oil.
The only thing that would seriously worry me about sensored brushless esc is traction control. It could do wonders for 2wd.
09-05-2006, 12:38 PM
#67
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
LoL ! Pete ,
A Neo has tight can, how can you stuff it even more ?
A Neo has tight can, how can you stuff it even more ?
Originally Posted by Peter_Robinson
the real turnoff is....
Oh man...... george talking about peters can....peter discribing what in a guy turns him off..... where is this thread going?? Where is Garrett and team pink when you need him??
09-05-2006, 01:45 PM
#68
Originally Posted by MarkBrown
Bottom line is, if enough guys want to run brushless, a class will be created for them at the local level, and eventually ROAR will go along. If somebody comes out with a brushless system with stock-like performance and initial cost, it will take off without any help from ROAR.
--mark
--mark
The bummer is that I'll personally never be clever enough to hack the esc software, or to enhance a brushless motor's performance.
I give it about 6 month`s before nobody even runs a brush motor ....
You taking bets or just talking out your ass as usual?
09-05-2006, 02:04 PM
#69
Originally Posted by stumper1
IF brushless ever does take off
09-05-2006, 03:39 PM
#72
Originally Posted by Sorcerer001
So, being that brushed motors are faster an more reliable, what's the problem with letting brushless run along side them? You'd think brushless owners would get fed up and abandon them - more business for the brushed companies. Seriously - Eddie, if you're right, this is what will happen. No sarcasm intended. This is all I've been hearing from the hardcore brushed guys all along - brushed motors are faster, and now they're more reliable. So what's all the fuss about? Let 'em run, the superior technology will prevail.
You'll probab ly never get a direct answer to this question.
They'll all dance around it and claim other things.
09-05-2006, 03:48 PM
#73
none of us are making the rules....thats roar, they have rules and at least some people have to follow them..maybe we are thinking on the national level not the club level
either way i will stick with brushed, but there is to many variables in brushless...
brushed motors have a max rpm...from the bushings and the arm...ect..speedo
brushless has nearly unlimited rpm...so they have to be limiting it some way...right? cant do it in the motor...so...they have to do it in the speedo with electronics and what not...to tell it when to "stop" when its going as fast as a brushed motor...there is way too many aftermarket companys with tons of money out there....if someone hacked a bL speedo they would make a ton of moeny.....who wouldnt do it?
either way i will stick with brushed, but there is to many variables in brushless...
brushed motors have a max rpm...from the bushings and the arm...ect..speedo
brushless has nearly unlimited rpm...so they have to be limiting it some way...right? cant do it in the motor...so...they have to do it in the speedo with electronics and what not...to tell it when to "stop" when its going as fast as a brushed motor...there is way too many aftermarket companys with tons of money out there....if someone hacked a bL speedo they would make a ton of moeny.....who wouldnt do it?
09-05-2006, 04:58 PM
#74
Originally Posted by flameoutgarrett
none of us are making the rules....thats roar, they have rules and at least some people have to follow them..maybe we are thinking on the national level not the club level
either way i will stick with brushed, but there is to many variables in brushless...
brushed motors have a max rpm...from the bushings and the arm...ect..speedo
brushless has nearly unlimited rpm...so they have to be limiting it some way...right? cant do it in the motor...so...they have to do it in the speedo with electronics and what not...to tell it when to "stop" when its going as fast as a brushed motor...there is way too many aftermarket companys with tons of money out there....if someone hacked a bL speedo they would make a ton of moeny.....who wouldnt do it?
either way i will stick with brushed, but there is to many variables in brushless...
brushed motors have a max rpm...from the bushings and the arm...ect..speedo
brushless has nearly unlimited rpm...so they have to be limiting it some way...right? cant do it in the motor...so...they have to do it in the speedo with electronics and what not...to tell it when to "stop" when its going as fast as a brushed motor...there is way too many aftermarket companys with tons of money out there....if someone hacked a bL speedo they would make a ton of moeny.....who wouldnt do it?
At this years TCS race they used closed endbells In GT2 and the fast guys claimed that they could increase performance by using custom KO speedo profiles. While the Novak claims to be programable there is no port or connection that allows adjusting the software.
I think most people agree the speed of stock should not progress past its current level. That being said what kind of motor would you build if brushed rules were adjusted to get more consistant output, longer lasting, and ease of maintainance. I would rather pay 80.00 for a stock motor that was perfect than show up for a big race and have to buy three and then try and track down someone with the neccesary equipment to get the motors up to speed.