Team Magic G4
07-01-2007, 09:39 PM
#7441
07-01-2007, 09:43 PM
#7442
as i know.. rear sus arm is shorter.. then activity is very quick...
and rear sus arm is longer.. then activity is very stable
is my thought wrong?
and.. after change sus arm posion... the activity of my g4s is very nice.. except small tire size..
so i want find other setup(not changing sus arm length) to fix the probelm.
07-01-2007, 09:51 PM
#7443
You can not transfer settings from some other brand as the geometry is not the same. I know Serpent drivers that use +8mm. There is no way this is going to work on a G4.
Set your droop to +2mm and you will see you instantly have enough ride height. Even if the shock length was 100mm you will still have the same ride height the way you have the car setup. A down stop (droop setting) is exactly that - stopping the suspension arm dropping beyond a certain point. If you limit this too much (like with +6mm droop setting) you won't get the ride height you want.
To see the difference, put you car on the droop blocks without wheels or shocks and start unwinding the droop screws and you will see the arm start to drop. Set it at +2mm and reattach the wheels and shocks and you will have whatever ride height you want(within reason of course). If you don't have setup blocks do the same thing but sit the car flat on a board or bench, you will see the same results just not as easily measured.
To use a setup item correctly, you need to first understand what it does and how it works and how it will affect the car.
Set your droop to +2mm and you will see you instantly have enough ride height. Even if the shock length was 100mm you will still have the same ride height the way you have the car setup. A down stop (droop setting) is exactly that - stopping the suspension arm dropping beyond a certain point. If you limit this too much (like with +6mm droop setting) you won't get the ride height you want.
To see the difference, put you car on the droop blocks without wheels or shocks and start unwinding the droop screws and you will see the arm start to drop. Set it at +2mm and reattach the wheels and shocks and you will have whatever ride height you want(within reason of course). If you don't have setup blocks do the same thing but sit the car flat on a board or bench, you will see the same results just not as easily measured.
To use a setup item correctly, you need to first understand what it does and how it works and how it will affect the car.
07-01-2007, 09:52 PM
#7444
Ok. Remember with longer suspension arm, camber gain will be higher. Maybe too high on a medium grip track. This could unsettle the car mid corner or corner exit.
This is because the top link is shorter relative to the longer (lower) suspension arm.
If you want to keep with the longer lower suspension arm, You could try taking some spacers out from the top link (hub side).
How is your tire wear? Adjusting your rear static camber to 3 Degrees instead of 4. (You may have too much camber as you are mid corner or corner exit due to the higher camber rise)
Just something to try.
Menace
This is because the top link is shorter relative to the longer (lower) suspension arm.
If you want to keep with the longer lower suspension arm, You could try taking some spacers out from the top link (hub side).
How is your tire wear? Adjusting your rear static camber to 3 Degrees instead of 4. (You may have too much camber as you are mid corner or corner exit due to the higher camber rise)
Just something to try.
Menace
07-01-2007, 09:58 PM
#7445
Daz has a good starting set up where he measures the droop from ride hight.
So, with car in ready to race condition, gently raise the front of the car. If your front ride hight is 5mm. As you raise the car look at the tires, they should leave the ground when your chassis is 7mm off the ground. Do you see what I meen? This is 2mm of "droop" !
Likewise at the rear. Only this time set it at 4 - 5mm of droop.
IE: If ride hight set to 5mm. Raising the car, rear wheels should leave the ground at 9 - 10mm ride hight.
This way. It does not matter what tire sizes you run. Your droop will always be set the same.
Hope this helps.
Menace
07-01-2007, 10:12 PM
#7446
Ok. Remember with longer suspension arm, camber gain will be higher. Maybe too high on a medium grip track. This could unsettle the car mid corner or corner exit.
This is because the top link is shorter relative to the longer (lower) suspension arm.
If you want to keep with the longer lower suspension arm, You could try taking some spacers out from the top link (hub side).
How is your tire wear? Adjusting your rear static camber to 3 Degrees instead of 4. (You may have too much camber as you are mid corner or corner exit due to the higher camber rise)
Just something to try.
Menace
This is because the top link is shorter relative to the longer (lower) suspension arm.
If you want to keep with the longer lower suspension arm, You could try taking some spacers out from the top link (hub side).
How is your tire wear? Adjusting your rear static camber to 3 Degrees instead of 4. (You may have too much camber as you are mid corner or corner exit due to the higher camber rise)
Just something to try.
Menace
i will try it.. i used 2mm spacers on rear hub top link
i will try 0mm or 1mm later..
and i compared my G4+ rear sus arm length with NT1.
G4+(long position) is longer than NT1 by 1-2mm
07-02-2007, 02:51 AM
#7447
07-02-2007, 03:03 AM
#7449
07-02-2007, 03:26 AM
#7450
the conclusion of clutch shoe problem..
the conclusion of clutch shoe problem..
i had a clutch shoe wear out problem and the fast meet of 2nd shoe.
i always used GR modified engine. (GR is a korea hadcore modified engine maker)
i asked korean GR Team about shoe wear out problem.. and 2nd timing.
they also agreed my opinion.. they are composited by mugen,kyosho,TM
driver.
they said 2-speed timing is fast and shoe wear out or melt out problem in
black shoe.
so they used yellow shoe or red shoe instead of black shoe.
this problem was occurred by much torque of GR modified engine.
But TM did not released yellow shoe..
and when i use red shoe.. the aluminum bell scratched(as attached photo)
then.. clutch setting was changed during race.
In conclusion, i must use red shoe with non-aluminum bell or i must use
yellow shoe.
but i can't use yellow shoe.. TM did not release it.
other G4 Driver tested 2-speed timing in last weekend.
he tested JP-engine and 353 novarossi engine.
But he could get proper 2-speed timing without spaces use.
so i think.. because my GR engine is too much torque.. G4's normal 2-speed
shoe could not have proper 2-speed timing. (must use spacers!!)
i suggest TM that yellow shoe must be released for modified engine user(like me)
how about you think about my opinion Daz?
i had a clutch shoe wear out problem and the fast meet of 2nd shoe.
i always used GR modified engine. (GR is a korea hadcore modified engine maker)
i asked korean GR Team about shoe wear out problem.. and 2nd timing.
they also agreed my opinion.. they are composited by mugen,kyosho,TM
driver.
they said 2-speed timing is fast and shoe wear out or melt out problem in
black shoe.
so they used yellow shoe or red shoe instead of black shoe.
this problem was occurred by much torque of GR modified engine.
But TM did not released yellow shoe..
and when i use red shoe.. the aluminum bell scratched(as attached photo)
then.. clutch setting was changed during race.
In conclusion, i must use red shoe with non-aluminum bell or i must use
yellow shoe.
but i can't use yellow shoe.. TM did not release it.
other G4 Driver tested 2-speed timing in last weekend.
he tested JP-engine and 353 novarossi engine.
But he could get proper 2-speed timing without spaces use.
so i think.. because my GR engine is too much torque.. G4's normal 2-speed
shoe could not have proper 2-speed timing. (must use spacers!!)
i suggest TM that yellow shoe must be released for modified engine user(like me)
how about you think about my opinion Daz?
07-02-2007, 07:30 AM
#7451
i run My G4+ conversion kit in korea circuit.
my G4 was very aggressive in cornering.
(my g4 show nice activity in low traction(some dusty ground))
car go well in big size rear tire(61mm~65mm)
But car's rear was flowed or slip in small size rear tire(60mm below)
my g4 width setup was front 197mm, rear 199mm
so i will test front 198mm, rear 200mm to solve rear slip probelm in next week.
my G4 was very aggressive in cornering.
(my g4 show nice activity in low traction(some dusty ground))
car go well in big size rear tire(61mm~65mm)
But car's rear was flowed or slip in small size rear tire(60mm below)
my g4 width setup was front 197mm, rear 199mm
so i will test front 198mm, rear 200mm to solve rear slip probelm in next week.
Y type v-one RRR rear stebil ball stud + ball end was too thick.
so it disturbed sus arm activity.. and feel rear shock harden.
i fixed the problem..
sorry for my mistake
07-02-2007, 08:51 AM
#7453
I always cut the screw around 1.5mm to get the prefered shifting point. When in WC Brisbane, we even have to use harder spring than the original and lightening the 2speed shoe because its still too early
07-02-2007, 08:54 AM
#7454
thanks for your info..
i always call you as 'Travel Hotel!'
07-02-2007, 11:36 AM
#7455
Hi gansei,
I really dont understand why you have so much trouble with the clutch, from your picture you have not cleaned out the holes inside the clutch bell, which results in a small contact patch of the clutch shoe (as the sharpness of the edge of the holes cuts the shoe) this is VERY important.
Dont worry about the inside of the bell being scratched, its not an issue.
If you smooth the edges of the holes, then you will have a greater contact area and a far better clutch. I have posted good clutch settings before, which I run with Factory Nova Rossi engines, which have plenty of torque
I think maybe you were wearing clutch shoes, because the clutch is slipping too much because the contact patch is too small......
If you need to shorten the 2 speed screws, then thats an easy job. Maybe some kits came with too long screws ? I ran the same 2 speed all last season, its very good and very consistent.
Good Luck.
I really dont understand why you have so much trouble with the clutch, from your picture you have not cleaned out the holes inside the clutch bell, which results in a small contact patch of the clutch shoe (as the sharpness of the edge of the holes cuts the shoe) this is VERY important.
Dont worry about the inside of the bell being scratched, its not an issue.
If you smooth the edges of the holes, then you will have a greater contact area and a far better clutch. I have posted good clutch settings before, which I run with Factory Nova Rossi engines, which have plenty of torque
I think maybe you were wearing clutch shoes, because the clutch is slipping too much because the contact patch is too small......
If you need to shorten the 2 speed screws, then thats an easy job. Maybe some kits came with too long screws ? I ran the same 2 speed all last season, its very good and very consistent.
Good Luck.