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Old 11-18-2014, 05:31 PM   #31
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Just a comment on the number of races for such a serious... Originally it was sounding like 6-7 races and allowing a drop. That had me all excited trying to figure which ones to try making it to. George is right though, 4 races in the beginning is so much more achievable for someone like me that has a chance of getting noticed as many guys do if they could just get to all the races and have their names up in the top 5-10 rather than 37th. This would allow those guys to make it to more down the road due to the help they would get.... And disagree with using anything that acknowledges roar or their rules as our series. I would much rather see a set of united States champion rules established with whatever makes the most sense for everyone involved... I'm sure everyone knows why on that by now
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Old 11-18-2014, 06:21 PM   #32
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There could be a 9 race series. East, West, and Central.
Each holding 3 races. Every one on the same weekend at the end of the 3, one track holds the champion Ship race at a track voted on by the racers.
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Old 11-18-2014, 06:32 PM   #33
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I've talking about this for 2 yrs now.
I have been saying a 5 race series with one drop. Using 5 existing races such as Winternats, KO race, GLC, Byron's Race and let's get the Texas Biggee back to what it was. That pretty much covers the country. Of course there is also a great track in Washington.
I even have simple point system to be used.
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:33 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by gesser26 View Post
I've talking about this for 2 yrs now.
I have been saying a 5 race series with one drop. Using 5 existing races such as Winternats, KO race, GLC, Byron's Race and let's get the Texas Biggee back to what it was. That pretty much covers the country. Of course there is also a great track in Washington.
I even have simple point system to be used.
I think you forgot the Nugget Greg . A 5 race series spread out over a 12 month calendar year is a great idea. Also, racers and track owners should vote on which tracks should be utilized per calendar year. If possible, every year the series is held a different group of tracks should be used. As far as rules and regulations go, we should just stick to IFMAR. However, changing the format of how we race may not increase the turnout.
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:36 PM   #35
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Im not saying its not going to work, all Im saying is that you're leaving out the average joe, the drivers sponsored by only their wallets and never makes the top 15, yet still shows up to the races and does the best job he can in hopes that suddenly he gets a big boost and moves up. And if you loose that guy, you loose the hobby. The top drivers are the top drivers, but they're not the ones that make the "hobby". You need to cater more to the weekend warriors...
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:47 PM   #36
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True Nitrodude. Looking at ROAR regions. Keep it that way. Keep sponsored drivers out of it. And again its the little guys . Just have locals have regional races, then top 3 to track for National TBA. If person cant make it next person in line(alternate0. Like I said must be independently wealth. Keep it more Sportsmans Class. For the small guy.

Spooky1 and I retired with fix income. I can use investment $$$$ no problem. But has to be planned. In the 90's, I traveled IFMAR to Thailand & Japan. Talkin about $$$$ and travel not easy, You loose a day depending on depart time. I lived in L.A. 12 years ago live smack in the middle of 3 permanent tracks. Revelations, Crystal Park, Sun Valley. Revelations turned Off-Road They all closed. Move to Vegas, Silver Bowl Closed shortly after. GLARCRC only club I think still there, Parking Lot racing. But well organized. L.A. tracks I don't know with Region 12. GLARCRC or a track in Oxnard, CA. Seems like On-Road Less people, Off-Road Great in Vegas, Off road track west of McCarron Airport.

It really depend on which track would hold the regional/ National Race.
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Old 11-18-2014, 10:31 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by nitrodude View Post
Im not saying its not going to work, all Im saying is that you're leaving out the average joe, the drivers sponsored by only their wallets and never makes the top 15, yet still shows up to the races and does the best job he can in hopes that suddenly he gets a big boost and moves up. And if you loose that guy, you loose the hobby. The top drivers are the top drivers, but they're not the ones that make the "hobby". You need to cater more to the weekend warriors...
Steve can you explain how exactly the average joe is left out there are no closed doors anyone can attend no one is stating the average joe is not allowed

How would anyone improve there racing skills if there is no availability of learning from a pro
There are plenty of pro drivers that I see always helping out the average joe its beneficial for all.
A sportsman class can be created were no pro's are allowed but it is always looked at as another A Main for a class that already exist
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:46 AM   #38
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Steve can you explain how exactly the average joe is left out there are no closed doors anyone can attend no one is stating the average joe is not allowed

How would anyone improve there racing skills if there is no availability of learning from a pro
There are plenty of pro drivers that I see always helping out the average joe its beneficial for all.
A sportsman class can be created were no pro's are allowed but it is always looked at as another A Main for a class that already exist
Is it not obvious to you? Sportsman class? I never said anything about a sportsman class, I'm one of the slow guys and would never race on the sportsman class. You're obviously not listening to what I'm saying...
You're leaving the"average Joe" out by making all these flyaway races that most "average joes" can't afford to fly to because rc racing isn't out job, we don't have the time or money to make more than 1 of those races. Even the locally sponsored guys are hard pressed to make more than 1 race. Three of my racing buddies are sponsored and they had to choose between the Nats and other races this year, a couple made the Nats the other chose the GLC. Do you see what in saying now? Your idea is great, for those who can dedicate the funds and time to fly to 3 or 4 of those races. That's how you're leaving out the little guy.

If you make it a regional series that qualifies you for a national race then your still giving the little guy a chance to enjoy this. The "average joes" are the ones keeping the tracks going every weekend by club racing, we are the ones keeping the distributors distributing by their products...
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:47 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Geezatec View Post
True Nitrodude. Looking at ROAR regions. Keep it that way. Keep sponsored drivers out of it. And again its the little guys . Just have locals have regional races, then top 3 to track for National TBA. If person cant make it next person in line(alternate0. Like I said must be independently wealth. Keep it more Sportsmans Class. For the small guy.

Spooky1 and I retired with fix income. I can use investment $$$$ no problem. But has to be planned. In the 90's, I traveled IFMAR to Thailand & Japan. Talkin about $$$$ and travel not easy, You loose a day depending on depart time. I lived in L.A. 12 years ago live smack in the middle of 3 permanent tracks. Revelations, Crystal Park, Sun Valley. Revelations turned Off-Road They all closed. Move to Vegas, Silver Bowl Closed shortly after. GLARCRC only club I think still there, Parking Lot racing. But well organized. L.A. tracks I don't know with Region 12. GLARCRC or a track in Oxnard, CA. Seems like On-Road Less people, Off-Road Great in Vegas, Off road track west of McCarron Airport.

It really depend on which track would hold the regional/ National Race.
The track you are referring to in Vegas is 702 Raceway. I know the owner and the young guy has his shiznit together. Good indoor track to race at if you are visiting Vegas.

As far as "sponsored" drivers, you might need to have a "pro" class specifically for them. You never want to exclude anyone. Maybe set a rule of a racer having more than 50% sponsorship from a manufacturer/distributor for the bottom threshold of being in this group. I know that it is more complicated than that but you don't want to exclude anyone but give some a point to aspire towards (a young kid wanting to someday be a "pro" driver).

The main part of this discussion is to stimulate and energize on-road racing again. Some of the logistical things can be overcome and some can't, but, if it gets racing going again in many areas where it dropped off, isn't that what we are striving for?
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:01 AM   #40
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The main part of this is to not get bogged down on minute details on getting an idea like this going. That can be hashed out when things are being finalized down the road. The main things are as follows (an possible outline):

A. Form whatever committee/organization that will oversee this
B. Identify the track(s) in regions that can be utilized for the venture
C. Outline rules that participants will follow (which will include class structures, etc.)
D. Recruit sponsors for the venture

You guys get the picture. A business plan needs to be formulated, complete with mission statement (what is this all about and what are you trying to achieve {goal}). If you don't have an idea of a destination to reach, it is hard to map out a route to get there.
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:01 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by nitrodude View Post
Is it not obvious to you? Sportsman class? I never said anything about a sportsman class, I'm one of the slow guys and would never race on the sportsman class. You're obviously not listening to what I'm saying...
You're leaving the"average Joe" out by making all these flyaway races that most "average joes" can't afford to fly to because rc racing isn't out job, we don't have the time or money to make more than 1 of those races. Even the locally sponsored guys are hard pressed to make more than 1 race. Three of my racing buddies are sponsored and they had to choose between the Nats and other races this year, a couple made the Nats the other chose the GLC. Do you see what in saying now? Your idea is great, for those who can dedicate the funds and time to fly to 3 or 4 of those races. That's how you're leaving out the little guy.

If you make it a regional series that qualifies you for a national race then your still giving the little guy a chance to enjoy this. The "average joes" are the ones keeping the tracks going every weekend by club racing, we are the ones keeping the distributors distributing by their products...
I'm listening I just wanted for you to be more to the point on your wording
This is a choice you can participate or not no one is being left out if your not capable of attending all the races then what you need to do is get with your region and promote a regional concept which is not happening or continue being the weekend warrior but if you would like to be part of something in the making
The concept is to grow participation at the participating tracks
There are drivers that are looking for more reasons to go to tracks they have not been to maybe this might help
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:11 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by JLock View Post
The main part of this is to not get bogged down on minute details on getting an idea like this going. That can be hashed out when things are being finalized down the road. The main things are as follows (an possible outline):

A. Form whatever committee/organization that will oversee this
B. Identify the track(s) in regions that can be utilized for the venture
C. Outline rules that participants will follow (which will include class structures, etc.)
D. Recruit sponsors for the venture

You guys get the picture. A business plan needs to be formulated, complete with mission statement (what is this all about and what are you trying to achieve {goal}). If you don't have an idea of a destination to reach, it is hard to map out a route to get there.
Jlock
That's the easy part no sense of getting so ahead
1st tracks participating calendar set in place
Roar Club sanction created cost $35 officers placed mission statement created bylaws set
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:37 AM   #43
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No more excuses. Let's get this done!!!
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:52 AM   #44
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Interesting discussion!
Nice to see that many of you realize that this kind of racing series will be the future.
I was one of the ignitors for the ENS after i saw how succesfull the ETS
(electric) Series was growing up year by year.

Also in Europe is not always easy to travel by Car, with distances over 1000 miles you have take the aircraft.

Here in Europe most of drivers donīt like anymore to follow EFRA ore national rules, to much, to complicated, sometimes stupid
Of cause you have to follow any rules, but they have to be simple as possible.
What you need is 1 guy who have the right to say what is wrong and what is right. We find this guy in Uwe Rheinhard, and he do his job very well.
Means, for what i need a approved number on a bodyshell??? If it looks like a spaceship this 1 guy will say "sorry Sir"!

Also the matter with tire treadment was a big discussion here in Europe for about 3 years. So it was logical to run the ENS with handout tires.
This is the main reason why itīs so succesfull!

You can ask Paolo Morganti, Loran and Jeff Whiting, De Soto Sr. and Jr. about racing with handout tires. All of them joined the final ENS in Italy.

But anyway, i will be in Kissimmee and will answer all questions and hope to met many of you guys there.
I will also follow this thread....

Regards
Armin
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Old 11-19-2014, 10:05 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by veloxrc View Post
Interesting discussion!
Nice to see that many of you realize that this kind of racing series will be the future.
I was one of the ignitors for the ENS after i saw how succesfull the ETS
(electric) Series was growing up year by year.

Also in Europe is not always easy to travel by Car, with distances over 1000 miles you have take the aircraft.

Here in Europe most of drivers donīt like anymore to follow EFRA ore national rules, to much, to complicated, sometimes stupid
Of cause you have to follow any rules, but they have to be simple as possible.
What you need is 1 guy who have the right to say what is wrong and what is right. We find this guy in Uwe Rheinhard, and he do his job very well.
Means, for what i need a approved number on a bodyshell??? If it looks like a spaceship this 1 guy will say "sorry Sir"!

Also the matter with tire treadment was a big discussion here in Europe for about 3 years. So it was logical to run the ENS with handout tires.
This is the main reason why itīs so succesfull!

You can ask Paolo Morganti, Loran and Jeff Whiting, De Soto Sr. and Jr. about racing with handout tires. All of them joined the final ENS in Italy.

But anyway, i will be in Kissimmee and will answer all questions and hope to met many of you guys there.
I will also follow this thread....

Regards
Armin
Thanks Armin for chiming in the idea is exactly what you said we are using a page from Uwe Rheinhard's play book based on the success of the ENS Series
Just tweaking it
Look forward to seeing you again in a couple of weeks
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