Serpent 835 running Lola (parma) body
07-15-2005, 10:11 AM
#31
Oh, btw do you guys know what shores come with the kit. It's not marked anywhere and I'd like to know for my reference.
Thanks
Thanks
07-15-2005, 10:30 AM
#32
Originally Posted by mxs
RS:
I thought you are not using donuts, because it's too messy and not really that much cheaper....
Can you share where to get them and how exactly you do it?
Thanks
I thought you are not using donuts, because it's too messy and not really that much cheaper....
Can you share where to get them and how exactly you do it?
Thanks
My buddy has been glueing /un-glueing tires from old rims with new donuts for years....last time he told me, he has to soak the old tires into some chemical stuff, then the old foams will slide out very easy (his term easy is probably still very hard for me)....then he will put on some contact cement or some sort and slide the new foams on it, then let it dry....
I am sure I missed some step in between, but again, I was not the one doing it, so I don't care.....I am sure someone here can add up something that I missed....for example, what is the name of that chemical...? I have no idea...
P.S...I know my buddy does have a metal CONE looking tools that help to slide in the rear foams....that is a KEY tools for the whole process.
07-15-2005, 10:47 AM
#33
David,
I always felt like the 835 carried more corner speed and stayed flatter. When I ran the impact I went through rear tires faster with the battery up front and up top plus moved forward it always felt like it unloaded the rear when I left off the gas. It is fun when you could power slide the rear around the corner. But at the 30 minute mark its no fun. I do push my cars pretty hard though. These are just my observations.
Mxs,
Kit tires was 35 shore all the way around.
I always felt like the 835 carried more corner speed and stayed flatter. When I ran the impact I went through rear tires faster with the battery up front and up top plus moved forward it always felt like it unloaded the rear when I left off the gas. It is fun when you could power slide the rear around the corner. But at the 30 minute mark its no fun. I do push my cars pretty hard though. These are just my observations.
Mxs,
Kit tires was 35 shore all the way around.
07-15-2005, 01:11 PM
#35
Solara,
I am no longer racing Gas On-road but I can defiantly help you. When I raced the 835 I pretty much used 35 shore all the way around. Sometimes I ran 37 fronts for less traction. If the track has a big sweeper coming off the straight you can also use 37 tires on the driver side of the car. If you have to turn right off the straightaway. That will help even out the tire wear. The harder shore will keep the outside tires from wearing faster then the inside.
Pretty much at all the Midwest races I went too we started out with Red Front springs, Bar ¾ adjust for more or less steering 1 or 2 holes open front shocks ,Serpent 30 or 35 weight shock oil. Rear red springs 1/8th gas car rear swaybar (not the adjustable) 30 weight shock oil 3 or 4 holes open. If you need more rear traction yellow rear springs, stock swaybar, 2 to 3 holes open.
Hope this helps,
Kelly
I am no longer racing Gas On-road but I can defiantly help you. When I raced the 835 I pretty much used 35 shore all the way around. Sometimes I ran 37 fronts for less traction. If the track has a big sweeper coming off the straight you can also use 37 tires on the driver side of the car. If you have to turn right off the straightaway. That will help even out the tire wear. The harder shore will keep the outside tires from wearing faster then the inside.
Pretty much at all the Midwest races I went too we started out with Red Front springs, Bar ¾ adjust for more or less steering 1 or 2 holes open front shocks ,Serpent 30 or 35 weight shock oil. Rear red springs 1/8th gas car rear swaybar (not the adjustable) 30 weight shock oil 3 or 4 holes open. If you need more rear traction yellow rear springs, stock swaybar, 2 to 3 holes open.
Hope this helps,
Kelly
07-15-2005, 01:31 PM
#36
Originally Posted by windix60
Solara,
I am no longer racing Gas On-road but I can defiantly help you. When I raced the 835 I pretty much used 35 shore all the way around. Sometimes I ran 37 fronts for less traction. If the track has a big sweeper coming off the straight you can also use 37 tires on the driver side of the car. If you have to turn right off the straightaway. That will help even out the tire wear. The harder shore will keep the outside tires from wearing faster then the inside.
Pretty much at all the Midwest races I went too we started out with Red Front springs, Bar ¾ adjust for more or less steering 1 or 2 holes open front shocks ,Serpent 30 or 35 weight shock oil. Rear red springs 1/8th gas car rear swaybar (not the adjustable) 30 weight shock oil 3 or 4 holes open. If you need more rear traction yellow rear springs, stock swaybar, 2 to 3 holes open.
Hope this helps,
Kelly
I am no longer racing Gas On-road but I can defiantly help you. When I raced the 835 I pretty much used 35 shore all the way around. Sometimes I ran 37 fronts for less traction. If the track has a big sweeper coming off the straight you can also use 37 tires on the driver side of the car. If you have to turn right off the straightaway. That will help even out the tire wear. The harder shore will keep the outside tires from wearing faster then the inside.
Pretty much at all the Midwest races I went too we started out with Red Front springs, Bar ¾ adjust for more or less steering 1 or 2 holes open front shocks ,Serpent 30 or 35 weight shock oil. Rear red springs 1/8th gas car rear swaybar (not the adjustable) 30 weight shock oil 3 or 4 holes open. If you need more rear traction yellow rear springs, stock swaybar, 2 to 3 holes open.
Hope this helps,
Kelly
07-15-2005, 02:07 PM
#37
Hi Kelly,
I can see why you would start using different shores on different sides, but I ma generally against it. The reason? It usually costs more money as you have to have more shores available, secondly I am trying to avoid setting up my cars through different tire shores. But if you can benefit so much in one turn not to loose all the time in others then I guess it would be the way to go.
I am running yellow springs all around, should I expect to have way too much steering therefore oversteer? I am planning to get other springs, but not right now.
RS:
The donuts do sound like a messy thing, that's why I was suprised when I read it in your post. One thing I found interesting and I've never heard of and that's pre-camber when truing your tires. Except for you don't have to set your camber through pivot balls, why would you do that? Is there any significant benefit I don't know about? Because should you need to change droop, ride height, shocks and stuff like that which has a bearing on camber at certain point, what do you do then? You are stuck with the camber on your tire and there is no way out of it unles you re-true the tires. Unless of course you know the track inside out and the conditions hardly change (I wish sometimes that would be my case). Then there's always a chance I totally missed something....
I can see why you would start using different shores on different sides, but I ma generally against it. The reason? It usually costs more money as you have to have more shores available, secondly I am trying to avoid setting up my cars through different tire shores. But if you can benefit so much in one turn not to loose all the time in others then I guess it would be the way to go.
I am running yellow springs all around, should I expect to have way too much steering therefore oversteer? I am planning to get other springs, but not right now.
RS:
The donuts do sound like a messy thing, that's why I was suprised when I read it in your post. One thing I found interesting and I've never heard of and that's pre-camber when truing your tires. Except for you don't have to set your camber through pivot balls, why would you do that? Is there any significant benefit I don't know about? Because should you need to change droop, ride height, shocks and stuff like that which has a bearing on camber at certain point, what do you do then? You are stuck with the camber on your tire and there is no way out of it unles you re-true the tires. Unless of course you know the track inside out and the conditions hardly change (I wish sometimes that would be my case). Then there's always a chance I totally missed something....
07-15-2005, 02:32 PM
#38
Tech Regular
tire tuning
MXS,
using various tires (diameter, hardness, camber)is a very important tuning tool. you will have a difficult time tuning your car with one type of tire.
using various tires (diameter, hardness, camber)is a very important tuning tool. you will have a difficult time tuning your car with one type of tire.
07-15-2005, 02:44 PM
#39
Originally Posted by mxs
Hi Kelly,
I can see why you would start using different shores on different sides, but I ma generally against it. The reason? It usually costs more money as you have to have more shores available, secondly I am trying to avoid setting up my cars through different tire shores. But if you can benefit so much in one turn not to loose all the time in others then I guess it would be the way to go.
I am running yellow springs all around, should I expect to have way too much steering therefore oversteer? I am planning to get other springs, but not right now.
I can see why you would start using different shores on different sides, but I ma generally against it. The reason? It usually costs more money as you have to have more shores available, secondly I am trying to avoid setting up my cars through different tire shores. But if you can benefit so much in one turn not to loose all the time in others then I guess it would be the way to go.
I am running yellow springs all around, should I expect to have way too much steering therefore oversteer? I am planning to get other springs, but not right now.
The reason I am not going to try it, because I am not reach that LEVEL yet....I don't think I can tell which side of my car will wear more tires, at what corner, at what spot, at what speed....No, I am not good enough to tell yet, but what KELLY said is PRO level setup....I hope one day I can figured that out.
07-15-2005, 02:58 PM
#40
Originally Posted by mxs
RS:
The donuts do sound like a messy thing, that's why I was suprised when I read it in your post. One thing I found interesting and I've never heard of and that's pre-camber when truing your tires. Except for you don't have to set your camber through pivot balls, why would you do that? Is there any significant benefit I don't know about? Because should you need to change droop, ride height, shocks and stuff like that which has a bearing on camber at certain point, what do you do then? You are stuck with the camber on your tire and there is no way out of it unles you re-true the tires. Unless of course you know the track inside out and the conditions hardly change (I wish sometimes that would be my case). Then there's always a chance I totally missed something....
http://www.mytsn.com/forums/forum.as...=1&sm=0&fi=101
Also, another one from Serpent Guru, Arturo Carbonell
http://www.mytsn.com/publ/publ.asp?pid=2665
07-15-2005, 03:35 PM
#41
Guys,
Maybe you misunderstood me, but I know how important tires are in any type of car racing. If I have the money I will have as many shores as possible (I've never had more than 1 set of tires at any point in time; maybe two once), but I don't. I just know people around my club who solve by tires everything. And they are others who achieve the same by changing setup. I'll like the latter because I believe you ulitmately learn more.
Another thing is that I have nothing against different camber on different wheel. I do it sometimes too, or different diameters in front and rear. My main question was why to pre-camber your tires especially when you can set your camber the other way?
I haven't read the links provided by RS, which I will do later today. actually looking forward to it, because I've really never heard of it. It will not be the way I'll do it anyways, because I have no tire truer....
It sounds like I will need to hit the jackpot soon.
Maybe you misunderstood me, but I know how important tires are in any type of car racing. If I have the money I will have as many shores as possible (I've never had more than 1 set of tires at any point in time; maybe two once), but I don't. I just know people around my club who solve by tires everything. And they are others who achieve the same by changing setup. I'll like the latter because I believe you ulitmately learn more.
Another thing is that I have nothing against different camber on different wheel. I do it sometimes too, or different diameters in front and rear. My main question was why to pre-camber your tires especially when you can set your camber the other way?
I haven't read the links provided by RS, which I will do later today. actually looking forward to it, because I've really never heard of it. It will not be the way I'll do it anyways, because I have no tire truer....
It sounds like I will need to hit the jackpot soon.
07-15-2005, 04:22 PM
#42
o.k. I've read the articles. I agree that there's a benefit since you are riding a full tire footprint right off the bat. But that's about the only advantage if I am not mistaken. Again, it's a matter of cost as always with tires. Over the years I always set my camber to have NO coning on tires. True, not always the best for the set up, but darn economical and that's what matters to me, but I understand if it doesn't to others.
Good articles anyways.
Thanks RS
Good articles anyways.
Thanks RS
07-15-2005, 06:25 PM
#43
Hi Guys,
I understand all about saving money. I can understand bigger tires for the main but I always tried to run the smallest tires I could get away with. The smaller the tires the better the car handles it does not tip up as much on high traction tracks. You might even have to change second gear to make for your loss in gearing because of the small tires. During a long main you start out with big tires and you cant drive your car too hard then at the 25 minute mark you are like damn this car is handling awesome. I can run hard in the corners get back on the gas quicker. That’s because your car ride height, droop,Gear ratio, clutch are right were they need to be. Then 10 minutes later your cars handling starts to go away that’s because your tires have went to the rims. If no body else is stopping for tires you cant either if they are on the same lap as you and you are leading you got to hang on to it.
When I said to try harder tires on the outside of your car. It actually is saving money because you get more tire life out of a set of tires. Say at a typical MWS 2 day race I would go through 3 sets of tires if I do not hit the wall and chunk a tire. You practice 4 tanks of fuel and you check tire wear after each run. If you can run them one more time save them for the 1st qualifier. Take your other set and run them in once then set them aside. So hopefully you can get one round on your small tires from practice. Now you have the other set to use for the 2 – 3qualifier. Sunday you take a new set and cut them a ½ mm bigger and go out and run a practice before the mains. The tires should be ready to race. You should have in your notes how much wear the tires did during warm up and the actual qualifier. Cut your main tires to the size you think you will need.
You guys have a good night and good luck,
Kelly
I understand all about saving money. I can understand bigger tires for the main but I always tried to run the smallest tires I could get away with. The smaller the tires the better the car handles it does not tip up as much on high traction tracks. You might even have to change second gear to make for your loss in gearing because of the small tires. During a long main you start out with big tires and you cant drive your car too hard then at the 25 minute mark you are like damn this car is handling awesome. I can run hard in the corners get back on the gas quicker. That’s because your car ride height, droop,Gear ratio, clutch are right were they need to be. Then 10 minutes later your cars handling starts to go away that’s because your tires have went to the rims. If no body else is stopping for tires you cant either if they are on the same lap as you and you are leading you got to hang on to it.
When I said to try harder tires on the outside of your car. It actually is saving money because you get more tire life out of a set of tires. Say at a typical MWS 2 day race I would go through 3 sets of tires if I do not hit the wall and chunk a tire. You practice 4 tanks of fuel and you check tire wear after each run. If you can run them one more time save them for the 1st qualifier. Take your other set and run them in once then set them aside. So hopefully you can get one round on your small tires from practice. Now you have the other set to use for the 2 – 3qualifier. Sunday you take a new set and cut them a ½ mm bigger and go out and run a practice before the mains. The tires should be ready to race. You should have in your notes how much wear the tires did during warm up and the actual qualifier. Cut your main tires to the size you think you will need.
You guys have a good night and good luck,
Kelly
07-15-2005, 08:52 PM
#44
Wow Kelly, pretty good tire clinic, but I will be honest. I know it's moreless necessity to do these kind of wear calculations and stuff, but I can't see how I could find myself doing that. Hardcore racers yes, but not me as I am not one. I do a couple of races a year, but even for those I wouldn't bother do this kind of tire madness. This is one of the reasons I don't normally race. It's just too damn expensive if you start doing what all other racers around you do.
But don't get me wrong, it's really exciting to read and learn what the best do to win.
Good night to you too and thanks again.
p.s. since we are talking tires a lot. Do you recommend putting CA glue on the side wall of a tire to prevent chunking or is this a myth spread by people?
But don't get me wrong, it's really exciting to read and learn what the best do to win.
Good night to you too and thanks again.
p.s. since we are talking tires a lot. Do you recommend putting CA glue on the side wall of a tire to prevent chunking or is this a myth spread by people?