Downturn in Members
07-02-2005, 09:27 AM
#16
Tech Elite
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Louisville, KY!.. USA!! ....Home of http://www.fastharry.com
Posts: 2,847
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
I'm just gonna throw this out there.......and this is what I have seen at my LHS.....he seems to have lost interest in promoting the hobby..and that includes racing..why?.....because every day,more and more people come in and want help with cars they bought on the internet....and HIS prices are almost the same as towers......he's in danger of closing....there are hobby shops in the area that sell stuff at cost.......yet offer no service....and when the people realize that,its too late.....
I think racing,and rc car sales in general,have been hurt by the internet....people buy these RTR cars,have no clue and need help...RTR's and on line shops have stopped growth and sales at the LHS..and thay are the ones who are the first line in promoting RC''s as a hobby.....and asa way to have fun racing...
I think racing,and rc car sales in general,have been hurt by the internet....people buy these RTR cars,have no clue and need help...RTR's and on line shops have stopped growth and sales at the LHS..and thay are the ones who are the first line in promoting RC''s as a hobby.....and asa way to have fun racing...
07-02-2005, 09:30 AM
#17
Tech Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by fastharry
I'm just gonna throw this out there.......and this is what I have seen at my LHS.....he seems to have lost interest in promoting the hobby..and that includes racing..why?.....because every day,more and more people come in and want help with cars they bought on the internet....and HIS prices are almost the same as towers......he's in danger of closing....there are hobby shops in the area that sell stuff at cost.......yet offer no service....and when the people realize that,its too late.....
I think racing,and rc car sales in general,have been hurt by the internet....people buy these RTR cars,have no clue and need help...RTR's and on line shops have stopped growth and sales at the LHS..and thay are the ones who are the first line in promoting RC''s as a hobby.....and asa way to have fun racing...
I think racing,and rc car sales in general,have been hurt by the internet....people buy these RTR cars,have no clue and need help...RTR's and on line shops have stopped growth and sales at the LHS..and thay are the ones who are the first line in promoting RC''s as a hobby.....and asa way to have fun racing...
07-02-2005, 01:59 PM
#18
Tech Rookie
I Started racing in the nitro hpi rs4 days. I got into because it was the closest thing to full scale racing I could afford (remember squealing rubber tires). Also the neat part was that you could start at the bottom level inexpensive RS4 and slowly upgrade parts on it as your skill and knowledge got better and you could see and feel the difference and you could still be competitive with the same platform(helped keep interest in it). Not so nowadays to start racing manufactures make you think you need a pro level car which is beyond the capacity and price of most newcommers. Also the realism of 1/10 T/C is gone. It’s just a smaller 1/8 scale in a T/C body. The same thing that has happened to T/C will happen and is happening to M/T's. Loses realism,(1/8 buggy in a M/T body) pro level M/T keep coming out every month no one can afford them and M/T racing drops off. 
. Now, what would be cool if there was a class were I could race the $200 durtrax on road car with rubber tires and be competitive..... 
. Now, what would be cool if there was a class were I could race the $200 durtrax on road car with rubber tires and be competitive.....
07-03-2005, 05:47 AM
#19
Originally Posted by ziggy12345
The model shops and the manufacurers do not make any effort to promote or suppot racing.
I have come to believe.. till now still... they are decreasing because after spending a bunch of money, they still could not win! All people that able to afford this kind of hobbies are from mid to upper class. They tend to get higher results if they willing to spent more which is the case for modifying real car, car audio, and so forth. But on competition R/C, 60% is our personal skill and luck.
07-04-2005, 03:35 AM
#20
Tech Master
Thread Starter
Thats the case in Indonesia (I have raced there) but in the UK the RC guys are mostly working class. Its the promotion of the sport and the support by the model shops and manufacturers that keep the sport alive and this has dropped off.
If hey want to sell cars they have to get more involved with promotion and track building
Cheers
If hey want to sell cars they have to get more involved with promotion and track building
Cheers
07-04-2005, 04:49 AM
#21
Yes, I can see in EU or US most of the racers are from working class. I raced 3 years in the US back then before David June has become famous with his tamiya. In most Asian country this thing truly considered as an exclusive items.
Please see here (you`ve been here), similar problems in the US,
http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=71758
I guess most of the problems would lead to the total money they`ve spent. All have different perpective on how to value their spending as all have their own living standard and lifestyle.
In Indonesia, at least that I knew of, we are facing even bigger problems. Spent at leat USD15K just to make on road decent track (the one you used to race on costs 200K to built, some mentioning USD700K but I didn`t beleive them), not mentioning rent of the land and monthly maintanace, we still facing another problem for charging yearly membership of USD100/year. Most of them wanted for free and only 40% maximum able to understand and accept the deal.
Please see here (you`ve been here), similar problems in the US,
http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=71758
I guess most of the problems would lead to the total money they`ve spent. All have different perpective on how to value their spending as all have their own living standard and lifestyle.
In Indonesia, at least that I knew of, we are facing even bigger problems. Spent at leat USD15K just to make on road decent track (the one you used to race on costs 200K to built, some mentioning USD700K but I didn`t beleive them), not mentioning rent of the land and monthly maintanace, we still facing another problem for charging yearly membership of USD100/year. Most of them wanted for free and only 40% maximum able to understand and accept the deal.
07-04-2005, 05:00 AM
#22
personally i am a long time racer (4 years) and i have essentially given up nitro touring also! 
i have not visited my favourite track, www.nswrcrcc.org for something like 5 months and i am selling my brand new mxt3 and brand new jp full option! after spending a fortune on it 
WHY?
THE BLOODY COSTS FOR NITRO COMPETITIVE THATS WHY!
the foamies, the motors, if you race top class racing the cost becomes quite high. we've got guys rocking up at our track with full caravans etc for big meets.
somehow the fun has been lost in tourers.
AND ELECTRIC ISN'T SAFE FROM CRITICISM EITHER!
i started to run brushed for a large event which Hara and Surikarn were attending in australia (that was rained out eventually anyway) and the brushed motors, with brushes and option springs set me back approx $100. not to mention the battieries etc.
i have layed back for a while and i am waiting for the new novak vrushless to cut the costs down. i am lucky though i work part time in a hobby shop and get everything at cost+10%. still I FIND IT VERY EXPENSIVE.
i have not visited my favourite track, www.nswrcrcc.org for something like 5 months and i am selling my brand new mxt3 and brand new jp full option! after spending a fortune on it WHY?
THE BLOODY COSTS FOR NITRO COMPETITIVE THATS WHY!
the foamies, the motors, if you race top class racing the cost becomes quite high. we've got guys rocking up at our track with full caravans etc for big meets.
somehow the fun has been lost in tourers.
AND ELECTRIC ISN'T SAFE FROM CRITICISM EITHER!
i started to run brushed for a large event which Hara and Surikarn were attending in australia (that was rained out eventually anyway) and the brushed motors, with brushes and option springs set me back approx $100. not to mention the battieries etc.
i have layed back for a while and i am waiting for the new novak vrushless to cut the costs down. i am lucky though i work part time in a hobby shop and get everything at cost+10%. still I FIND IT VERY EXPENSIVE.
07-04-2005, 05:20 AM
#23
Tech Fanatic
Venom is right. I race nitro tourers and absolutely love them. Im just sick of the costs involved to be competetive and to maintain a 'raceable' car! With high end motors, Rods, pistons, sleeves, etc have got to be changed pretty regularly and set you back anywhere between $120-$300 in Australia and if you want to race, you have no choice. I think this is the main contributing factor.
I also think that the popularity of electric tourers is also growing as x nitro guys see it as a somewhat cheaper alternative. Although the set-up costs are high, running costs are cheaper!
P.S. im a semi-convert
I also think that the popularity of electric tourers is also growing as x nitro guys see it as a somewhat cheaper alternative. Although the set-up costs are high, running costs are cheaper!
P.S. im a semi-convert
07-04-2005, 05:27 AM
#24
Tech Master
Thread Starter
Racing electric competetive is more expensive than IC. Anyway who says you have to win to have fun? If it was only the winner that got ant enjoyment out of the sport there would only be one guy racing every week. I dont care about winning I just like to run the car around and have fun with the other guys and I'm sure most people feel the same. If you sepnd a fortune on a car its your choice and there are a lot of cheaper alternatives.
I have no doubt the cost isnt an issue, its the hobby shops and car makers lack of support and sponsorship thats the problem. When they cant sell any cars coz there's no tracks to race at it will be their own fault
Cheers
I have no doubt the cost isnt an issue, its the hobby shops and car makers lack of support and sponsorship thats the problem. When they cant sell any cars coz there's no tracks to race at it will be their own fault
Cheers
07-04-2005, 01:02 PM
#25
On and On
Find myself lamenting this for one reason. I have no reasonably local track to run at.
The LHS have killed themselves by providing overall poor support of the chassis they sell. Parts availability is no better than I can do over the internet for less. In fact, instead of the track becoming obsolete, if we all voted with our feet maybe the LHS would be the one to become obsolete as they no longer serve a purpose other than advice on tuing etc which most fellow racers are happy to provide. Especially if they are out to have fun, not to beat every racer they meet. I think some of us fellow racers lose sight that this is meant for fun(I think) primarily and priorities need to be maintained.
If so maintained, the piston and sleeves, and all the other peripherals the Hobby Shops thrive on would become far less necessary and strangle an outdated business.
The LHS have killed themselves by providing overall poor support of the chassis they sell. Parts availability is no better than I can do over the internet for less. In fact, instead of the track becoming obsolete, if we all voted with our feet maybe the LHS would be the one to become obsolete as they no longer serve a purpose other than advice on tuing etc which most fellow racers are happy to provide. Especially if they are out to have fun, not to beat every racer they meet. I think some of us fellow racers lose sight that this is meant for fun(I think) primarily and priorities need to be maintained.
If so maintained, the piston and sleeves, and all the other peripherals the Hobby Shops thrive on would become far less necessary and strangle an outdated business.
07-04-2005, 01:34 PM
#26
I have been deeply involved in this hobby for nearly 20 years, and I truly believe that this is the best time to be involved in this hobby due to the excellent technology and cuts in price. Remember back in 1990 when a car and radio would set you back $400 plus a couple of 1200 mah batteries? Equate that to todays dollars, and you'll realize that the equipment we have now is a bargain for the price. (same goes for gasoline, when people whine about $2 per gallon - it has actually gotten cheaper through the years, but most people don't think about this)
As for the technology, the engines cost slightly more then a few years ago, but the performance is untouchable. A new os .12 tz will set you back just over $200 and can run with any engine. That was'nt true 5 years ago. (and nobody's forcing you to buy a $400 engine anyway)
Add in brushless, DSM, personal trasponders, the new battery technology, etc... and start to realize that the cost is quite reasonable (dare I say a bargain?) for what you get. An electric RTR ($300) is quite capable of competing on the club level.
Part of the problem, though is the local hobby shops are gouging people on parts. My LHS carries 1/10 foams for $22 per pair. I, and many people refuse to buy from them when they are obviously way too high. IF the LHS would at least be in the ballpark for most big/disposable items, they would get much more support.
Mostly though, I think the downturn is only temporary, due to the instability in the world economy and maybe a lack of promotion. We need to petition the speed channel to air a gas national event to spark some interest. Maybe have it produced professionaly similar to F1 or such.
The bottom line is all racers should encourage people to attend races and help/support them with thier cars. Go out of your way to make sure the potential new racer does not get discouraged when he thinks he can't compete due to lack of funds. This is a big reason most people quit after a few trips to the track. However, I'm sure Kinwald or others can spank the vast majority of club racers with a RTR. Make sure the newbies know this so they don't get discouraged.
Just my thoughts.
Peace........
As for the technology, the engines cost slightly more then a few years ago, but the performance is untouchable. A new os .12 tz will set you back just over $200 and can run with any engine. That was'nt true 5 years ago. (and nobody's forcing you to buy a $400 engine anyway)
Add in brushless, DSM, personal trasponders, the new battery technology, etc... and start to realize that the cost is quite reasonable (dare I say a bargain?) for what you get. An electric RTR ($300) is quite capable of competing on the club level.
Part of the problem, though is the local hobby shops are gouging people on parts. My LHS carries 1/10 foams for $22 per pair. I, and many people refuse to buy from them when they are obviously way too high. IF the LHS would at least be in the ballpark for most big/disposable items, they would get much more support.
Mostly though, I think the downturn is only temporary, due to the instability in the world economy and maybe a lack of promotion. We need to petition the speed channel to air a gas national event to spark some interest. Maybe have it produced professionaly similar to F1 or such.
The bottom line is all racers should encourage people to attend races and help/support them with thier cars. Go out of your way to make sure the potential new racer does not get discouraged when he thinks he can't compete due to lack of funds. This is a big reason most people quit after a few trips to the track. However, I'm sure Kinwald or others can spank the vast majority of club racers with a RTR. Make sure the newbies know this so they don't get discouraged.
Just my thoughts.
Peace........
07-04-2005, 01:47 PM
#27
Todd without any LHS the hobby/sport would die in about 6 mo.You guys talk of lack of suport for cars the LHS sells/carry,I think the "problem" is with the manufacture NOT the LHS,It costs alot of money to stock parts for a car thats going to be obsolete in about 6 mo.The other thing to think about is just how many people who have RC's race?? It's less than 5% I would bet,One of the other problems with nitro TC is how most novices are treated,and how their "choice" of car's are looked upon.. When I first started I showed up with a NTC3 RTR,No one ever came up to offer any help just comments on my "poor" choice of car and how if i wanted to ever do any good i needed to get a Mugen or Serpent..or.What a turn off.. 
I bought a NTC3 for a reason,My LHS carrys alot of parts for it.. 
I know it's not the best car out their but at the time it was the best car for me.If you want more people in the hobby make a class that is a good entry point for new racers,dont promote the cost of a top line car,promote the entry level cars,Remember it's for fun.
When I first started I showed up with a NTC3 RTR,No one ever came up to offer any help just comments on my "poor" choice of car and how if i wanted to ever do any good i needed to get a Mugen or Serpent..or.What a turn off.. I bought a NTC3 for a reason,My LHS carrys alot of parts for it.. I know it's not the best car out their but at the time it was the best car for me.If you want more people in the hobby make a class that is a good entry point for new racers,dont promote the cost of a top line car,promote the entry level cars,Remember it's for fun.
07-04-2005, 02:08 PM
#28
Just a Fluxation
I will agree and disagree with the problem being the cost of the hobby. Yes it is true that many companies take it upon themselves to make the hobby extremely expensive for the everyday racer but this kinda thing happens in every hobby, sport, event. This hobby is going through a normal fluxation. Every three or four years or so there is a downset of memebers and activity in this hobby. Now is off-road racing and heli's. IN a few yrs it will be on road and boats. I have seen this hobby indirectly now for over 30 yrs and this theory never fails. It happens all the time. And look at other sports. Xtreme biking and skating for example. To be competetive with the pros takes a lot of money also. And all of a sudden when it wasnt popular in the early to mid 90's it was in late 90s and upto 2002-2003 but now its dead again. soon it will come back,, as will on road racing. Just my two cents.
07-04-2005, 03:01 PM
#29
Tech Fanatic
Originally Posted by ziggy12345
Racing electric competetive is more expensive than IC. Anyway who says you have to win to have fun? If it was only the winner that got ant enjoyment out of the sport there would only be one guy racing every week. I dont care about winning I just like to run the car around and have fun with the other guys and I'm sure most people feel the same. If you sepnd a fortune on a car its your choice and there are a lot of cheaper alternatives.
I have no doubt the cost isnt an issue, its the hobby shops and car makers lack of support and sponsorship thats the problem. When they cant sell any cars coz there's no tracks to race at it will be their own fault
Cheers
I have no doubt the cost isnt an issue, its the hobby shops and car makers lack of support and sponsorship thats the problem. When they cant sell any cars coz there's no tracks to race at it will be their own fault
Cheers
07-04-2005, 04:44 PM
#30
On again
XXXkat, you may be right about the LHS. Maybe.
You sound lucky to have a LHS who supports the car you run and you rarely have to wait for parts as they are well stocked.
As for the putdown on the chassis. I absolutely agree that the snobbery is upsetting. When will these guys learn to mind their own business. If they want to help, it is much appreciated but comments regarding your choice of chassis is absolutely uncalled for.
A recent trip to the track for me included helping a nitro dude who had enough speed but the car handled poorly. I worked with him over the course of the tank to try to find a setup that would work. An HPI RTR kit with limited adjustments but we were able to get the car driving pretty well. This how I was introduced to this sport with this kind of behaviour and this is how I believe us sportsmen should behave. People who don't only pull it down with a bad impression.
Lets hope the current downturn is only part of a cycle and that we can all get back to racing for again soon.
You sound lucky to have a LHS who supports the car you run and you rarely have to wait for parts as they are well stocked.
As for the putdown on the chassis. I absolutely agree that the snobbery is upsetting. When will these guys learn to mind their own business. If they want to help, it is much appreciated but comments regarding your choice of chassis is absolutely uncalled for.
A recent trip to the track for me included helping a nitro dude who had enough speed but the car handled poorly. I worked with him over the course of the tank to try to find a setup that would work. An HPI RTR kit with limited adjustments but we were able to get the car driving pretty well. This how I was introduced to this sport with this kind of behaviour and this is how I believe us sportsmen should behave. People who don't only pull it down with a bad impression.
Lets hope the current downturn is only part of a cycle and that we can all get back to racing for again soon.