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Old 06-27-2014, 11:20 AM   #616
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shockballend stock in the kit are 11,6mm long. In the Wc kit serpent have 2 longer ones included wich are 12,6 mm. approx. so this will give some margin if applicable in your situation. Hope it helps you. using some shorter ones like used in the front seems to me the right solution.

Have fun.

read your post just now, not the right solution suppose

Last edited by djiewie; 06-27-2014 at 11:30 PM. Reason: mistake in measurement
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Old 06-27-2014, 11:20 AM   #617
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Just tried a front shock (short) ball end on the rear and that wont work correctly as all that does is lift the lower rear wishbone up as it doesn't allow enough shock length. The spring seating position is the same on both.
That's weird. If the wishbone angle raised, shouldn't ride height be lower since RH is solely based on the wishbone angle? If the RH is same, the wishbone angle also should be the same as before.
Mine is 10mm with 75mm tires in the rear and stock ball ends(long ones). The shock collars are fully up as well.
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Old 06-27-2014, 11:26 AM   #618
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I agree the alu bell does indeed get scratched up and isn't smooth like the steel bell but deep grooves on the drive face isn't ok in my opinion. I don't run the alu bell as it just doesn't last long enough and to me the benefits are too small to matter to me.

There are many ways that people reach the ideal clutch setup but I do like M7H's method of adjusting the spring tension and will be giving it a go.

The 0.5 end float will cause bogging because it doesn't give the shoe enough room to engage at the right RPM. It makes it engage too early and then to compensate you tighten down the adj nut further which makes it engage later but not hard enough and it then slips.

0.6mm start with a new shoe results in ~0.7mm after the initial bedding in run.
I see. For some reason, I picked up a wrong info from somebody and I guess that started the problem. I remember I didn't have any problem with 0.7mm gap. It just didn't come to my mind that it could be the gap causing the bogging as I kept building the clutch with 0.5mm gap LOL. Thanks M7H and Dan.
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Old 06-27-2014, 02:53 PM   #619
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That's weird. If the wishbone angle raised, shouldn't ride height be lower since RH is solely based on the wishbone angle? If the RH is same, the wishbone angle also should be the same as before.
Mine is 10mm with 75mm tires in the rear and stock ball ends(long ones). The shock collars are fully up as well.
No ride height is going lower with the short ball ends BUT the wishbone is being raised by the shorter limitation of the shock and Not being allowed to return correctly to the downstops therefore the whole geometry is being affected so that cannot be the right way to go ?

Silly thing is the whole rear suspension looks perfectly stock as per manual. They are Serpent original kit springs, spring seats, ball ends etc so really not sure what is going on ? Admit I haven't run the car on track yet as is, so maybe I ought to and see if things "settle" after a few laps and then recheck RH etc. Its just I had a 966 before and never had this sort of issue as the spring adjuster nuts always seemed to be at the mid point of the shocker with the springs with a default setup and ride height applied.

Whoever had and run the car before me I guess didn't see it as an issue ? unless of course I've found the reason why he parted with it in the first place ?
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Old 06-27-2014, 04:14 PM   #620
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No ride height is going lower with the short ball ends BUT the wishbone is being raised by the shorter limitation of the shock and Not being allowed to return correctly to the downstops therefore the whole geometry is being affected so that cannot be the right way to go ?

Silly thing is the whole rear suspension looks perfectly stock as per manual. They are Serpent original kit springs, spring seats, ball ends etc so really not sure what is going on ? Admit I haven't run the car on track yet as is, so maybe I ought to and see if things "settle" after a few laps and then recheck RH etc. Its just I had a 966 before and never had this sort of issue as the spring adjuster nuts always seemed to be at the mid point of the shocker with the springs with a default setup and ride height applied.

Whoever had and run the car before me I guess didn't see it as an issue ? unless of course I've found the reason why he parted with it in the first place ?
I see what you mean.
Have you tried shortening the shock shaft by turning in the ball end (original stock one) further?
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Old 06-27-2014, 05:02 PM   #621
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Take off the shocks. Measure the length of the shock fully extended measure from the bottom of the shock body to the top of the ball joint. Rears should be 11mm and it should be the long ball joint
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:45 PM   #622
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Just got myself a used 977 and setting it up. At the rear downstops are set to 8mm and I have 10mm ride height with 73mm rear tyre diameter. But cannot adjust the ride height any lower as the shock adjusting nut is already fully unwound up to the cap with the standard long rear springs. Is this normal ?
The only way I can see of obtaining a lower ride height adjustment is to fit shorter springs to the rear ?
I got the same prob, didn't troubleshoot it yet...
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:55 PM   #623
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I see. For some reason, I picked up a wrong info from somebody and I guess that started the problem. I remember I didn't have any problem with 0.7mm gap. It just didn't come to my mind that it could be the gap causing the bogging as I kept building the clutch with 0.5mm gap LOL. Thanks M7H and Dan.
Hey I just got home and check the manual. It says 0.5-0.6mm clutch gap. How come 0.5mm doesn't work then? And 747 has the same gap in the manual. Do you guys set the gap at 0.6-0.7mm in 747 too? I know my past NT1 has a recommended gap between 0.6 and 0.7mm.
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:07 PM   #624
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I set it to .6
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Old 06-28-2014, 01:02 AM   #625
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Take off the shocks. Measure the length of the shock fully extended measure from the bottom of the shock body to the top of the ball joint. Rears should be 11mm and it should be the long ball joint
Yep that's exactly what I've set them to now, but still no difference so don't understand why I cannot lower the car ?
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Old 06-28-2014, 01:24 AM   #626
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Just had a thought. I wondering if its the shocks rebound and or too thick an oil perhaps ? therefore with the car sat on its wheels and its shockers/springs mounted there is very little depression of the suspension under the cars own weight. If I press the shock shaft in without the spring I'm getting quite heavy resistance with an immediate 6mm rebound
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Old 06-28-2014, 06:52 AM   #627
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Hey I just got home and check the manual. It says 0.5-0.6mm clutch gap. How come 0.5mm doesn't work then? And 747 has the same gap in the manual. Do you guys set the gap at 0.6-0.7mm in 747 too? I know my past NT1 has a recommended gap between 0.6 and 0.7mm.
I set 0.6mm on my 747 as well. Pretty universal starting gap.

Remember that on a new shoe there will be a little bit of initial quick wear so if you set 0.5mm on a new shoe (as you would be when building a new car/clutch) then it would be 0.6mm after the first run. Likewise set 0.6mm initially gives 0.7mm after first run.

0.5mm on a broken in shoe is just too tight and will cause bogging.
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Old 06-28-2014, 11:15 AM   #628
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Just had a thought. I wondering if its the shocks rebound and or too thick an oil perhaps ? therefore with the car sat on its wheels and its shockers/springs mounted there is very little depression of the suspension under the cars own weight. If I press the shock shaft in without the spring I'm getting quite heavy resistance with an immediate 6mm rebound
You should be able to push in the shaft all the way in w/o having to apply lots of force on it. In high traction track, you don't need any shock rebound. Sometimes it's hard to accomplish no rebound w/o the vent hole on shock cap. So minimum rebound would be fine.
I don't think the oil strength should be taken into account for solving your problem because oil is mostly just to dampen the shocks, not to control how much the shock travels. It's the springs that control it.
If that doesn't work, I really think the shaft length will resolve the problem even if you have to shorten it further than 11mm. Just one quick turn. Let us know how that turns out. Really curious.
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Old 06-28-2014, 11:17 AM   #629
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I set 0.6mm on my 747 as well. Pretty universal starting gap.

Remember that on a new shoe there will be a little bit of initial quick wear so if you set 0.5mm on a new shoe (as you would be when building a new car/clutch) then it would be 0.6mm after the first run. Likewise set 0.6mm initially gives 0.7mm after first run.

0.5mm on a broken in shoe is just too tight and will cause bogging.
Yes now I know thanks to you guys. I'm itching to test the clutch..
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Old 06-29-2014, 01:12 PM   #630
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You should be able to push in the shaft all the way in w/o having to apply lots of force on it. In high traction track, you don't need any shock rebound. Sometimes it's hard to accomplish no rebound w/o the vent hole on shock cap. So minimum rebound would be fine.
I don't think the oil strength should be taken into account for solving your problem because oil is mostly just to dampen the shocks, not to control how much the shock travels. It's the springs that control it.
If that doesn't work, I really think the shaft length will resolve the problem even if you have to shorten it further than 11mm. Just one quick turn. Let us know how that turns out. Really curious.
Nope shortening the shaft by turning the ball end in increases the ride height !. and lengthening the shaft is not really having any effect as am at the limit of the ball joint thread so any more turns out and the joint will just pull out from the shaft. I'm going to try to run the car on track sometime this week and see what happens after a few laps. Other than this I'm stumped until I can get to a race and put my car alongside other 977's to compare.
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