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Old 07-16-2013, 12:11 PM   #691
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BM thanks will try that. fyi I'm using 800cst front and rear. white / front and black / rear.
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:49 PM   #692
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BM thanks will try that. fyi I'm using 800cst front and rear. white / front and black / rear.
You may want to look at switching out the black springs in back for yellows or the purples. With the back so stiff it doesn't allow for a lot of bite as the back end doesn't sag much. The black springs in back work very well on VHT tracks where there is endless traction or you have to be one heck of a driver to keep it under you.

Locally we run in parking lots and well that's nothing near a VHT track. I had to change from the magic Paolo setup and go back to what I knew for my style. Helped out a ton but you can bet I'm going to try a stiff setup on a high traction track!
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Old 07-16-2013, 04:19 PM   #693
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You may want to look at switching out the black springs in back for yellows or the purples. With the back so stiff it doesn't allow for a lot of bite as the back end doesn't sag much. The black springs in back work very well on VHT tracks where there is endless traction or you have to be one heck of a driver to keep it under you.

Locally we run in parking lots and well that's nothing near a VHT track. I had to change from the magic Paolo setup and go back to what I knew for my style. Helped out a ton but you can bet I'm going to try a stiff setup on a high traction track!
Paolo setup is with alphas. Won't work with sweeps
Sweeps require softer setup
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Old 07-16-2013, 04:57 PM   #694
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TT and Phil, I tried the soft springs too, with white in front and purple on the rear but to my surprise it got worst. So I was wondering is it the track (less traction than asphalt) or is it the arms flexing? We ran in a permanent concrete track. The main straight is only 150 feet but the lay out is really technical. We just started GT racing here less than 2 months ago. with 12 racers (5 serpents and 7 team c drivers) Its just really frustrating that the 5 of us serpent guys have more or less the same problem. However it got a little bit better when we raise our ride height but we were also loosing so much speed and quickness in the chicane. hence 1si, 2nd and 3rd places went to team c drivers during our last race. Help really needed by a fellow cobra gt driver.
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:23 PM   #695
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Paolo setup is with alphas. Won't work with sweeps
Sweeps require softer setup
I got with him on the GT at the KOPROPO GP this year and he set me up with some Alphas. I have been running Alphas every since, they seem more consistent to me. I went softer because we usually run on 10th scale medium traction set ups around here and I don't have the master throttle control to keep the car under men 100% of the race when I'm trying to battle it out.

As far as running on concrete its a whole new animal. We use to race on a large concrete slab here but man is it different than asphalt. Unfortunately at the time I was running Team C on the concrete so I really don't know what to tell you on the Serpent. If I were in your situation I'd be spending some quality time at the track doing test and tune. You'll find some magic just takes time. Have you tried any traction compounds?
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:34 PM   #696
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TT and Phil, I tried the soft springs too, with white in front and purple on the rear but to my surprise it got worst. So I was wondering is it the track (less traction than asphalt) or is it the arms flexing? We ran in a permanent concrete track. The main straight is only 150 feet but the lay out is really technical. We just started GT racing here less than 2 months ago. with 12 racers (5 serpents and 7 team c drivers) Its just really frustrating that the 5 of us serpent guys have more or less the same problem. However it got a little bit better when we raise our ride height but we were also loosing so much speed and quickness in the chicane. hence 1si, 2nd and 3rd places went to team c drivers during our last race. Help really needed by a fellow cobra gt driver.
Ok. I wanna helP so let me ask. What's your droop front and rear front under the screw in c hub. Rear under arm?

Are you running 10 degree hubs with zero knuckles ?

Are you running rear uprights long position?
What is you rear toe in and camber ?

Where is the link ?

What tires are you using ?
What's the surface ?
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:01 PM   #697
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Ok. I wanna helP so let me ask. What's your droop front and rear front under the screw in c hub. Rear under arm?

Are you running 10 degree hubs with zero knuckles ?

Are you running rear uprights long position?
What is you rear toe in and camber ?

Where is the link ?

What tires are you using ?
What's the surface ?
front:
ff-0/fr-0, 100K diff, 10* hubs, shocks mount 1/tower- A/arm, roll- 2/tower-A/hub, stab-2.5, droop 0, camber 2, 1* toe out, ride height 8, opt 2 steering.
Rear:
Rf-5/rr-4, 20k diff, shock mount 4/tower-B/arm, Roll 1/tower-A/hub, stab 2.7, droop 10, camber 4, ride height 8.5, all spacers at the rear of the rear hub.
Tires: Sweep 55 or 50
trck: permanent concrete (no vht etc..) med traction, 130 feet main straight, very technical.
Here is like a war its team c againts serpent so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance Phil
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:17 PM   #698
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I got with him on the GT at the KOPROPO GP this year and he set me up with some Alphas. I have been running Alphas every since, they seem more consistent to me. I went softer because we usually run on 10th scale medium traction set ups around here and I don't have the master throttle control to keep the car under men 100% of the race when I'm trying to battle it out.

As far as running on concrete its a whole new animal. We use to race on a large concrete slab here but man is it different than asphalt. Unfortunately at the time I was running Team C on the concrete so I really don't know what to tell you on the Serpent. If I were in your situation I'd be spending some quality time at the track doing test and tune. You'll find some magic just takes time. Have you tried any traction compounds?
tried a couple of tire traction.
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:19 PM   #699
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front:
ff-0/fr-0, 100K diff, 10* hubs, shocks mount 1/tower- A/arm, roll- 2/tower-A/hub, stab-2.5, droop 0, camber 2, 1* toe out, ride height 8, opt 2 steering.
Rear:
Rf-5/rr-4, 20k diff, shock mount 4/tower-B/arm, Roll 1/tower-A/hub, stab 2.7, droop 10, camber 4, ride height 8.5, all spacers at the rear of the rear hub.
Tires: Sweep 55 or 50
trck: permanent concrete (no vht etc..) med traction, 130 feet main straight, very technical.
Here is like a war its team c againts serpent so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance Phil
Front try to do ~3up for FF and ~3 down for FR, helps take some kick up out. The Team C is a flat chassis maybe part of the advantage there. Also for the rear 4 deg of chamber seems to be a lot. I run around 2-3 at max on a GT. Watch to see how the tires are wearing to get it perfect.

Also tires are number one for setup. Its the only portion of the car that makes contact with the ground. I'd suggest some Alpha softs or Mediums as I have found tons of traction with these. If you want to go Sweeps try some 45 EXP or even 40 EXP, depends on track temps.

With a technical track you want lots of steering. Try the FF/FR set up of 3s It made a good change on my GT.

A few things I am still pondering,
-Does concrete not get as hot as asphalt? If so we should be looking at softer shores of tires. What are your track temps?
-Which diffs are you running Ver 1 or Ver 2? Ver1 has washers being the spider gear and Ver 2 doesn't. Reason I ask is how different they are smoothness wise. 100k in the Ver 1 is spot on for a tight tech track but 100k in the Ver 2 I would say is too light you may be sacrificing some pull there.
-Can you get practice time?
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:44 PM   #700
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Front try to do ~3up for FF and ~3 down for FR, helps take some kick up out. The Team C is a flat chassis maybe part of the advantage there. Also for the rear 4 deg of chamber seems to be a lot. I run around 2-3 at max on a GT. Watch to see how the tires are wearing to get it perfect.

Also tires are number one for setup. Its the only portion of the car that makes contact with the ground. I'd suggest some Alpha softs or Mediums as I have found tons of traction with these. If you want to go Sweeps try some 45 EXP or even 40 EXP, depends on track temps.

With a technical track you want lots of steering. Try the FF/FR set up of 3s It made a good change on my GT.

A few things I am still pondering,
-Does concrete not get as hot as asphalt? If so we should be looking at softer shores of tires. What are your track temps?
-Which diffs are you running Ver 1 or Ver 2? Ver1 has washers being the spider gear and Ver 2 doesn't. Reason I ask is how different they are smoothness wise. 100k in the Ver 1 is spot on for a tight tech track but 100k in the Ver 2 I would say is too light you may be sacrificing some pull there.
-Can you get practice time?
Thanks for the reply TT
Im using the v2 with no shims
tried 3d/3u with 300k and had some issues with it cant remember what but Il try it again. track temp here reaches 120 to 125 tried 45's but melted( tried also 5 out at the rear it was ok but i couldnt push the car on race situation. but I think you are right on me sacrificing pull. I tried really soft diff oil 30k, 50k, and now 100K sacrificing pull for turn in but that didnt work. turn in was there but had problems with exit fishtailing so now Il be going in that direction. Thanks TT
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:57 PM   #701
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Thanks for the reply TT
Im using the v2 with no shims
tried 3d/3u with 300k and had some issues with it cant remember what but Il try it again. track temp here reaches 120 to 125 tried 45's but melted( tried also 5 out at the rear it was ok but i couldnt push the car on race situation. but I think you are right on me sacrificing pull. I tried really soft diff oil 30k, 50k, and now 100K sacrificing pull for turn in but that didnt work. turn in was there but had problems with exit fishtailing so now Il be going in that direction. Thanks TT
Ok. My opinion here is you need to try 4 droop front under screw in c hub 100k is. Ot heavy enough IMO I was runnin 300k front 40k rear which was kit supplied.100 make don't and 20 rear may make rear unload or ass consider that touring cars are half the weight and they use 200 and 60 lol.. A big problem is your rear hub are too foward. Move all the shims to the front of the upright which makes car longest

I would try 6 in fr with 4 in rr to the outside this gives you 4 deg toe in

Ty was spot on with watching tire wear for camber adjustment thats always the best method

I think the hotter the pavement or concrete the harder the tire you'll need to stop them from melting. I would say threaded tires may work better in concrete

I still think 800 cst will make car lazy. 1000 is spot on
Maybe adding + 2 hubs in rear also

Long link in rear too. Once it's locked in and. Not assing out we can start to free it up. Let's solve one problem first.


What body are you using ?
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:43 PM   #702
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I think the hotter the pavement or concrete the harder the tire you'll need to stop them from melting. I would say threaded tires may work better in concrete.

I still think 800 cst will make car lazy. 1000 is spot on
Maybe adding + 2 hubs in rear also

Long link in rear too. Once it's locked in and. Not assing out we can start to free it up. Let's solve one problem first.


What body are you using ?
I like the long link in the rear that's a good call, should add stability. Also I was thinking the same thing with treads, 50 treads were my go to all last season on no super smooth prepped tracks. You could bump it up to 1k shock oil but you may want to play with insert also. I found the 1.3 to be my favorite. Once we get the car planted we can get steering
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:10 AM   #703
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I like the long link in the rear that's a good call, should add stability. Also I was thinking the same thing with treads, 50 treads were my go to all last season on no super smooth prepped tracks. You could bump it up to 1k shock oil but you may want to play with insert also. I found the 1.3 to be my favorite. Once we get the car planted we can get steering
First of all I would like to thank you both TT and Phil for helping.
FYI : I leave near the track (10 min. drive) so track time is no problem. and by the way I forgot to mention that Im using +2 at the back and it improved.

Things I haven't tried and the reasons why. But now will try!

1) Long wheelbase (all spacers rear of rear hub) = I thought that it will just delay me in opening the throttle because it takes time for the car to be straight (slow mid corner) but now I will try it.
2) 1K shock oil w/ 1.3 piston = Our track is bumpy so I was thinking I might loose traction when it bounces even more. but now il try it.
3) front droop 4mm = need weight transfer in the back during acceleration to add traction in the back. but il try it.
4) tried 6 RF and 4 RR - 5/4 felt better but Il also try it again.

Things I have tried (but really weird, never happen to me in my 20 years + in rc) however never tried GT before (probably because of the weight) and never tried an on road car with kick up front:

1) softer springs at the rear = made the car fishtail more.
2) longer camber links at the rear = also made it unstable.

Things i done that improved the exit oversteer:

1) increase height to add body roll = but really suffered in the chicane sections ( so 10 front 11 rear, happy medium )
2) Im using protoform PF-8 body = But when I borrowed a friends mclaren body and the problem almost disappeared. (Almost ( )

Things I would like to ask from you guys: I will setup my car for this weekend and would want to know:

1) What diff oil front and rear to test?
2) front droop 4 - still dont know the rear droop value.
3) All of the above i will test it again.

By the way:
Im using 2 front and 4 rear camber and I think for my wear is really good. pretty even.
Really want to try threaded tires but no stock here for now.

Keep you guys updated after sunday's test. But if ever you want me to add something. anything before sunday just shout )
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:24 AM   #704
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First of all I would like to thank you both TT and Phil for helping.
FYI : I leave near the track (10 min. drive) so track time is no problem. and by the way I forgot to mention that Im using +2 at the back and it improved.

Things I haven't tried and the reasons why. But now will try!

1) Long wheelbase (all spacers rear of rear hub) = I thought that it will just delay me in opening the throttle because it takes time for the car to be straight (slow mid corner) but now I will try it.
2) 1K shock oil w/ 1.3 piston = Our track is bumpy so I was thinking I might loose traction when it bounces even more. but now il try it.
3) front droop 4mm = need weight transfer in the back during acceleration to add traction in the back. but il try it.
4) tried 6 RF and 4 RR - 5/4 felt better but Il also try it again.

Things I have tried (but really weird, never happen to me in my 20 years + in rc) however never tried GT before (probably because of the weight) and never tried an on road car with kick up front:

1) softer springs at the rear = made the car fishtail more.
2) longer camber links at the rear = also made it unstable.

Things i done that improved the exit oversteer:

1) increase height to add body roll = but really suffered in the chicane sections ( so 10 front 11 rear, happy medium )
2) Im using protoform PF-8 body = But when I borrowed a friends mclaren body and the problem almost disappeared. (Almost ( )

Things I would like to ask from you guys: I will setup my car for this weekend and would want to know:

1) What diff oil front and rear to test?
2) front droop 4 - still dont know the rear droop value.
3) All of the above i will test it again.

By the way:
Im using 2 front and 4 rear camber and I think for my wear is really good. pretty even.
Really want to try threaded tires but no stock here for now.

Keep you guys updated after sunday's test. But if ever you want me to add something. anything before sunday just shout )
The body is your number one problem.
Try the ipanema warrior or the r3 alpha.
You will find way better results in stability. The ipanema will lock in the most and be easier to drive
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:50 AM   #705
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1) What diff oil front and rear to test?
2) front droop 4 - still dont know the rear droop value.
3) All of the above i will test it again.
1) I'd do the 300k in the front with 30-50k in the rear to start with. Don't worry about turn in yet as there are a few good tricks once we get the car planted.
2) You can probably leave it around 10 where you had it to start
3) Happy testing!
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